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This 87 message thread spans 3 pages: < < 87 ( 1 2 [3]     
Expanding Your Site for AdSense Success
Linear Expansion versus Exponential Expansion
Andrew Bassett

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 4:18 pm on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I must admit, this is a spinoff of ronburk's thread.

With all the talk of constantly adding content, nobody seems to talk about the fundamentally different ways of adding content.

Idea 1: Linear expansion
This is the idea where you sit down, drop your head, and pump out x new pages per day on a consistent basis. Maybe they're useful, maybe they're not, but your rate of expansion is somewhat fixed. You'll have 20 pages, then 40, then 60, and so on.

Idea 2: Exponential expansion
This is the idea where you say to yourself "OK, I'm going to have 30 pages in my first few months, ~1,000 in year 2, ~40,000 in year 3, ~3,000,000 in year 4, etc."

Idea 1 is the most touted around here, but idea 2 has more potential. In order to actually DO idea 2, you need the following:
- Technical knowledge on how to make a scalable website
- Ideas on how you're going to get your content (I can't write it all myself, and it's too expensive to hire someone, so maybe there's ANOTHER way...)
- The constant shift of power (make a community-driven site, delegate tasks to your trusted members and give them fancy titles, and turn your web SITE into a web APPLICATION). Make people feel like they NEED to visit your site every day (you all know the feeling)!

Those who bang away at idea 1 will, for the most part, be the bottom-feeders of AdSense. Those who have a vision and a plan for idea 2 have the best fighting chance at living off AdSense.

So if you're thinking about becoming an AdSensei, you need to seriously drop idea 1 and think about idea 2. Anyone can build a megasite; you might need to learn a programming language, develop a fancy data-mining algorithm, and study internet addiction, but anyone with an idea, some free time, and the burning desire to make it exist can build such a website.

 

mm1220

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 9:22 am on Apr 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

How many people open gas stations and Denny's because "they're cool"?

What about open source software? People do that because it's cool.

Seo1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 3:05 pm on Apr 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi

I would like to add this is my 3rd month using adsense on websites not built for adsense.

First month was on 1 site and did $200.00 or so I believe on about 40,000 page views..Nice

February saw another site added and income rose to 650.00 on 80,000 page views Nicer

March is wrapping up at around 880.00 on less page views but have also added in a couple of real small sites to bake and wait for rankings.

Lots of people ask about keyword auutomatically generated content and making money from it...sounds like BS.

What we have found is the largest box on Adsense at the end of articles has the highest click through rate. This is because users read the article and at then end of it felt they needed more information or had nothing else to do but to click the ad.

If you can delete any other navigation links from this area, it helps them with the 'no way out' but to click an ad.

I suppose scaper sites work when you have 100s making a few dimes or quarters a day managements got to be a hassle,,,, I like making $20.00 $30.00 $40.00 per day from less than a handful of sites.

My 2 cents.

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 3:19 pm on Apr 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

What about open source software? People do that because it's cool.

People use Open Source because it's FREE, don't confuse FREE with cool.

Although I must admit slapping Microsof around for FREE is kinda cool ;)

jomaxx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jomaxx us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 3:34 pm on Apr 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

I think the poster was asking why people spend their time developing open source software, not why they use it.

Nonetheless I agree with you overall. All these grand pronouncements about the right way and the wrong way to go about things are a little tedious.

mm1220

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 4:41 pm on Apr 1, 2006 (gmt 0)


What about open source software? People do that because it's cool.

People use Open Source because it's FREE, don't confuse FREE with cool.

I was talking about writing/coding Open Source, not using it.

Kufu

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 5:18 pm on Apr 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Nonetheless I agree with you overall. All these grand pronouncements about the right way and the wrong way to go about things are a little tedious.

It is not necessarily a right or wrong but rather ways that are more likely to work and ways that are more likely not to work (in the long run).

I know someone who makes really high five-figures/month from his sites, but he has to constantly pump out sites as they get banned from the engines. This works fine for him, but if he did it with a long term plan and goal in mind, he'll make very little now, and a lot later. And the 'a lot' will be steady, and he won't need 300 sites do to it.

jomaxx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jomaxx us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 5:41 pm on Apr 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

IMO the problem with that example isn't that the business model isn't sustainable. If you're supposedly earning almost $100,000 a month, who cares? (I say "supposedly" because spammers in particular seem to enjoy inflating how much they earn.)

The problem is that he is spamming the search engines, which is a parasitic strategy that hurts all of us. Millions of people waste their time wading through crap pages just because this jerk can't come up with anything useful to do with his life.

Kufu

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 6:23 pm on Apr 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

And that is exactly the problem, 'spam'. Now, whether the search engines think it is spam or if the user thinks it is spam, it is still spam.

I have a site that had just a bunch of garbage text on it specifically written for the engines, and it offered no real value to anyone who visited the site. I was getting high CTR, and for the amount of time I had put into making the site it was making good money. But I ended up feeling guilty about it, so I changed the site, and paid out money to someone who knew something about the topic to write useful content. I also added other useful tools and information to the site. Now my CTR is much lower than it used to be, because visitors actually find what they came looking for. But I know that in the long run, I will be able to build up traffic with much better rankings because the site is now useful.

The constant churning out of content at a rapid pace ends up creating lower quality content, unless qualified writers are getting paid money to generate this content. Otherwise, want it or not the content ends up being 'spam' since it doesn't add anything of value, and is only there to fill up pages, and rank high so that ads can get clicked on.

I have no problem with people making money from ads (I do it myself), but what I hate is wading through crap to find information.

jomaxx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jomaxx us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 7:01 pm on Apr 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Granted. Believe me, I believe that quality matters and hate that keyword-rich blather as much as anyone.

Andrew is in love with the idea of community/viral/exponential sites (which really amounts to last years Next Big Thing, "Web 2.0"), and that's fine. That's one way to go.

But it is very wrong to group every website that DOESN'T fit that model, in other words the vast majority of websites that have been created to date, and say that they are somehow worse, or spammy, or MFA's, or at a competitive disadvantage. The field is just far too broad and the number of available strategies far too great for any useful generalizations to be made.

fischermx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 7:23 pm on Apr 1, 2006 (gmt 0)


People open a business to make MONEY, so why is the web any different?

Well said!

mm1220

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 8:41 pm on Apr 1, 2006 (gmt 0)


People open a business to make MONEY, so why is the web any different?

Well said!

People open charities and don't expect to make money (unless they're crooked charities!). People put up informational sites and don't expect any money, they just hope that they can help people out.

See my comments re: open source software.

I do realise that people can benefit indirectly from setting up a website which doesn't generate profit. Eg: to showcase their writing skills.

Seo1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 12:07 am on Apr 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

People open a business to make MONEY, so why is the web any different?

I can tell you why the web is different....most people who opened businesses offline had some business sense.

I have worked with 100s of webmasters online....70% have no idea what profit margins, cost per action, gross margins, average basket price and other business financial issues are or what they mean to the success of their business..

It seems to me quite a few people sat down and said "I can build a website and make money"....only to lose whatever money if any they had.

I have webmasters who have been online for 7 or more years who never had a robots.txt file. One client went through three other SEO companies and not one placed the robots.txt on the server.

Thats what is different about the web.

Peace

Kufu

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 4:29 pm on Apr 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I have webmasters who have been online for 7 or more years who never had a robots.txt file.

Why would they need a robots.txt file? The only time you need to use a robots.txt file for 'seo' is if you are looking to exclude parts of the site.

Andrew Bassett

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 4:57 pm on Apr 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I have a robots.txt file but I think it's such a minor thing, most sites (even big corporations) need not worry about it.

fischermx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 5:14 pm on Apr 3, 2006 (gmt 0)


People open charities and don't expect to make money

Charities are not exactly businesses... ;)

Phillipx

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 5:19 pm on Apr 5, 2006 (gmt 0)

You're kidding about the charity thing right? Non-Profit organizations and charities have to make money or they couldn't afford to continue operating. That's just the simple fact of the world. Anyone who thinks differently should visit some headquarters of charities and Non-Profits.

On a side note a non profit .org just GAVE me a 60 thousand dollar server and a free T-1 line. Just doesn't sound right does it.

Seo1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 6:13 pm on Apr 5, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi Phil

Sounds about right. Non Profit buys tax exempt and gives equipment away and writes it off.

Non-Profit does not mean they do not make a profit...it means they cannot "SHOW" a profit.

For example: give new server to Phil no profit...

Actually done right they're some good scemes...colleges use them to buy real estate as trustees and then charge college kids with zero income $2500.00 to $10,000 per semester to live there.

4 to 6 kids in a unit. x $5,000.000 per semester? who isn't turning a profit in that scheme.

non-profit = hide money from government better.

The sad part is the server you got for free came from my taxes, your taxes, and everyone who pays taxes. and all of us were overcharged.. since you got a server and the rest of us didnt!

jetteroheller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jetteroheller us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 6:53 pm on Apr 5, 2006 (gmt 0)

I do the linear way.

That's quality content written by myself.

Quality content outperforms any forum content.
Otherwiese, forums would be the greatest earners in AdSense.

The progressive way reminds me to much on pyramide schemes or MLM.

Andrew Bassett

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 4:24 am on Apr 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

I agree that quality content outperforms forum content. In fact, I'd say that a CTR of 0.2% on a forum is excellent.

However, not all third-party-generated content and exponential expansion is in the form of discussion boards; far from it.

arubicus

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 5:08 am on Apr 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

"However, not all third-party-generated content and exponential expansion is in the form of discussion boards; far from it."

Right on target there!

dataguy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 11:46 am on Apr 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

"However, not all third-party-generated content and exponential expansion is in the form of discussion boards; far from it."

I can't believe that needed to be said.

To anyone who reads "user-generated content" and assumes it means "online forums", I would recommend spending some time reviewing some of the more recent trends of the Internet.

Which web sites are in the headlines these days? Wikipedia, MySpace, Livejournal, Flickr. If you're planning on building a web site that sets the trends for the future, these are what you need to think of when you hear "user generated content".

Seo1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 1:11 pm on Apr 6, 2006 (gmt 0)


Forums are indeed user generated content.

Forums make no money.

I recently purchased a website that was local in nature yet distant from where I am. Due to some differences I lost 100 or so forum members who were active.

I thought this would hurt reveunes but it did not. I have continued to build the site but on a more national level and have found through the use of a tremendous application that is very inexpensive found that my sites main pages earn 95% of the revenue with the forums contributing around 5%.

The same is true for a partners travel category website and forums. 90% of the revenue comes from his main pages and forums only at best 10% of the revenue.

I have found that user generated content in the form of articles that visitors write, to be better revenue earners, especially when given their own page and monetized with the mix of ads that works quite well.

Indeed the social networking sites are revenue models to consider but if one looks at Yahoo we see the future of the large box website.

A far better model is to build niche communities, and then cannibalize the large faceless boxed websites.

That advice did not come from me if anyone asks lol...

Peace

shinyblue

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 4:31 pm on Apr 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

The progressive way reminds me to much on pyramide schemes or MLM.

People get so caught on moralism and being right instead of going for results. Do you want to make money? Or do you want to be right about how the people who make money are somehow being unethical?

If you are smart, you look at why pyramid schemes make money, you attempt to understand them. You react with curiosity instead of with judgement. Then you create your own model based on what you've learned and your own values.

There's value in re-investment of capital, there's value in automation. You can create better sites faster. You can also of course abuse them and produce crap which doesn't help anyone. But the ability of a tool or technique to be misused does not mean it should be abandoned--it means it should be used with thoughtfulness.

jetteroheller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jetteroheller us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 5:19 pm on Apr 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

People get so caught on moralism and being right instead of going for results. Do you want to make money?

Shure, therefor populate about 100 MLM sites my URL filter.

When I write content, I know that I will earn money from it.

At all this pyramide games, it's very uncertain to win money. Most people loose money with them.

mm1220

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 5:59 pm on Apr 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

Forums make no money.

Way too a broad a statement IMHO. Forums in which people chat and talk don't make much but Q&A style forums can do well if ads are only served to unregistered members (who find the forum by tyoing the same question into Google that was asked in the forum).

Seo1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 6:09 pm on Apr 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

You are right I mistyped

From my experience forums laden with adsense ads typically perform very poorly, converting under 1%

Peace

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 13071 posted 6:22 pm on Apr 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

I can tell you why the web is different....most people who opened businesses offline had some business sense.

You need to read the paper, look at all the bankruptcies and business closings posted every week. Most businesses fail in the first year so there isn't that much more business sense offline than online.

The biggest difference with the net is you aren't stuck with a bunch of real-world leases for expensive offline property and services when you go belly up. Close your $30/month web hosting account and the party is over.

I have webmasters who have been online for 7 or more years who never had a robots.txt file. One client went through three other SEO companies and not one placed the robots.txt on the server.

So people have no business sense if they don't have a robots.rxt file?

That file is completely meaningless unless you need to block an area of your site or stop specific robots so I wouldn't derive anything from the lack of that file as you're making assumptions and jumping to meritless conclusions.

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