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You too can make $5.35/hour with AdSense?
Let's Look at Some Numbers
ronburk




msg:1432938
 3:36 am on Mar 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

I fear for all the newbies who may get skewed expectations (OK, even worsely skewed than they walked in with) by reading this forum. People everywhere seem to be making thousands of dollars a month, Markus makes millions per year, and... so you must be an utter dolt if you're sitting there staring at your $105 check for last month.

Maybe not.

Like most web distributions of everything, there's a power law effect for people going after AdSense income. In other words, a few people (and you can bet they post to let us know who they are!) are going to make the lion's share of the money, some larger number of people are going to make OK money, and a whole lot of us are going to make, well, not really very good money at all.

Of course, the whole lynchpin of the winner-take-all society is the way that our insane belief that we'll be one of the lucky few helps us keep plugging away for a pittance. The large number of ghetto kids who are certain they're going to be NBA stars have a lot in common with AdSense slave-workers who are convinced they're going to be the next Markus-like Millionaire.

But let's run some numbers anyway, even though everyone who thinks the numbers couldn't apply to them will keep thinking that way. It won't change anyone's behavior, but maybe seeing some numbers that actually match your own experience (as opposed to making you ashamed of your own experience) might be a pleasant change.

Scenario

There's a million ways to skin the AdSense cat, but certainly the straight-shooter, white-hat, Build Good Content and Good Advertisers Will Come approach is used by a whole lot of new AdSensers. Practically speaking, if you're just now embarking on a black-hat, get-rich-quick scheme, then you're so far behind the old-timers (and Google) that the odds against you are even crueller anyway.

So here's the scenario: You're going to make your AdSense gold by building good content and getting ads, and over time the dollars will just keep mounting up.

Assigning Numbers

Of course, AdSense income varies very widely by topic and by what SmartPricing thinks of you this week. But still, I think it's possible to arrive at some plausible guesses for some average income.

One oft-quoted guesstimate claims that people in the AdSense content business make roughly $10/page per year. But I'm going to say a more realistic estimate is $5/page per year. That's probably better than you're going to make off a joke-of-the-day type of content, but probably plausible for anyone who does a modest amount of investigation about where likely good income topics lie.

I know, if you're a newbie you're thinking "oh, I'm pretty sure I can beat $10/page per year". I know, you're special, but remember that this set of numbers is aimed at what's going to happen to most newbie AdSensers, not really smart people like you, to whom the odds do not apply.

Also keep in mind that a number of things conspire against the new AdSenser. If you got few pages, it's harder to get natural inbound links. It's harder to get PR and harder to rank highly for popular terms. Think of AdSense like one of those online games where you have to spend the first part of the game being a toady and doing a grunt work to get enough gold/skills/whatever to actually have any fun (and to avoid being wiped out by the first opponent you look at funny).

So yes, however improbably low you think it, let's go with $5/page per year.

Next, of course, is how fast can you write pages? As always, there's a trade-off here. Two sentences per page is going to let you crank a lot out quickly -- but lower the odds that they'll actually do you any good. And, if you just write crap, you greatly lower the odds you'll get any of those "natural", one-way, inbound links from authority sites.

Google is not magic, but if you think they have not managed to achieve at least a rough correlation between rankings and actual website quality/usefulness, then why are you investing time in this business anyway?

Also, you ain't gonna live off the income from your initial 10-page AdSense site, so you've probably got to spend some time elsewhere making a living. You probably can't work 10-hour days on nothing but creating content. And, many people have actual families or other frivolous pursuits that keep them from working 7-day weeks. And remember, we're looking for numbers that describe what's going to happen to most newbie AdSensers who embark on this expedition.

I want to go with a number of 2 hours per page, and 4 hours per day. And I'll assume you work on this project 5 days per week, and 50 weeks per year.

Multiplication!

Now comes the fun part. You plug away at this AdSense thing for a year, and where do you think you (the imaginary "average" AdSenser) will be?

Well, after a year, you've got 50 weeks * 5 days/week * 2 pages/day = 500 pages. Wow! Let's hope you picked a topic that you could actually write that much about! (What was the most number of pages you ever wrote for a term paper? Hmmmmmm...)

Now how much yearly income will your website make you at that point? Well, 500 pages * 5 dollars/page/year = $2500/year = $208/month.

Is it Worth It?

Let's suppose after that year of work, your website will produce as estimated for a while. Of course, you don't really make that $2500 in year 1, because your page count was slowly growing from zero during the first year. And some people are going to find that their website earnings on a "frozen" site go up, while many will find them going down sooner or later, due to competition or algorithm changes.

But to make the math easy, let's assume (conservatively I think), that your total earnings (even in the face of Google algorithm changes) from this website will be at least 3 * $2500 = $7500 -- even if you do no other work on it after the end of year one. One of the paybacks for doing true-blue, white-hat, decent content development should be that you're less likely to get "wiped out" completely by a Google algorithm change, though I would not expect the website to earn it's peak forever with no changes.

So, you made $7500 and all you invested was 50 * 7 * 4 = 1400 hours. That's right, you made $5.35/hour.

Sorry, you grossed $5.35/hour. You'll probably need to be paying taxes (and some Social Security in the U.S.) on that. But still, you had the pleasure of being your own boss, eh?

Conclusion

Disagree with my assumptions? Of course you do! But if you're an AdSense newbie, you should at least look at the numbers and then see whether your own estimates are panning out as you go.

After a couple of months of AdSense work, do you have more or less than the 80 pages of content I'm assuming the average AdSenser will have?

After a couple of months of AdSense work, are you making more or less than the $.14/page per day I've assumed here?

After a couple of months of AdSense work, do you have more or less than the 160 hours of invested time I guesstimated for this model?

Am I anywhere close in my estimation of what will happen to the average AdSenser? I don't know, but I suspect this flimsy model is a lot closer to reality than you'll get by reading posts by people who are on the sweet end of the power-law curve. People at the much more heavily populated end of the curve (that's the part that looks an awful lot like a flat line) rarely post their earnings experience.

Sometimes I wonder if those unrealistic expectations don't lead to more cases of outright fraud, as people decide that must be what "everyone else" is doing, since "everyone else" seems to be striking it rich with AdSense.

Am I telling people not to try to make AdSense? No. But I'm telling people to not do AdSense instead of getting an education, to not quit their job to do AdSense, to not forego relationships to work more on AdSense. And if you're here to tell me that you did all those things and you're now the NBA star equivalent of AdSense, well, just remember that one bad injury can take you out of the game forever.

 

arubicus




msg:1432998
 10:22 pm on Mar 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

leveldisc

I don't know the intent of the original OP but the article is misleading in some ways. That the business model does work but not in the way the article states.

Giving supposed "facts" for the lower group of adsense is wrong without considering other factors of that group and should be considered.

With misleading figures and positions the article may very well turn off newcomers from even starting and lower earners to even attempt to further their earning potential. So I myself am just offering different points of view and shedding some light into the complexity of the adsense business model.

I Will Make It




msg:1432999
 10:25 pm on Mar 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

arubicus:
Thank you, the best reply so far to this post!

If you flip the coin, you WILL see the other side of it.

I'm not here to learn how to get rich using adsense. But I love the idea of creating something that others find useful. And if adsense can give me a little revenue from it, then that's a great bonus!

If you think the way ronburk has written his article (which by the way is a great written article), I think you might as well just go to bed, and stay there..

Is it any better to give away almost 1/3 of your life to your boss? Or trade 1/3 of your life for somewhere around $10-$30 pr. hour? My answer: NO! When you think about it.. it's unfear! You wake up in the morning, to spend most of the day at your J.O.B (Just Over Broke), making a rich person even richer...

Most people live their lifes with some amount of hope saying: You might make it, you may get what you want - just hang in there, and some day... some shiny warm day..

I guess that there are people in here, using this hope just to master each and every day at their "lousy" job. Sure, some hopes for money, others hope for getting their health back, others may hope for beeing able to have children.

What people are hoping for, isn't that important, but I just can't see, when so many people obviously are using this adsense forum for gaining motivation to grow their hope stronger, maybe to make their days easier, why it is necessary to stay all realistic about things. Wouldn't it be better to motivate instead?

europeforvisitors




msg:1433000
 10:34 pm on Mar 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

why it is necessary to stay all realistic about things. Wouldn't it be better to motivate instead?

Absolutely. Anyone can make a million bucks from AdSense, so why not quit your job, stop worrying about whether the kids will eat, and rejoice in the certainty that you can be the Web equivalent of Stephen King, Tom Cruise, or Magic Johnson?

arubicus




msg:1433001
 10:45 pm on Mar 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

"Absolutely. Anyone can make a million bucks from AdSense, so why not quit your job, stop worrying about whether the kids will eat, and rejoice in the certainty that you can be the Web equivalent of Stephen King, Tom Cruise, or Magic Johnson? "

Also rejoice in the uncertainty that your job will be here tomorrow, that your kids will be healthy, that you will be able to feed your family, that you will live another hour, minute, second.

Nobody is saying to quit your job and leave your family unfed BEFORE you create an alternative income. That is just a plain stupid comment to be made.

For a person who believes that they can't do it. Probably won't. This is a "realistic" mindset to them. BUT being unrealistic can break the norm barriers and limitation conformity has placed in life and create wonderful new experieces, possibilities, value, and contribution toward others.

I Will Make It




msg:1433002
 10:45 pm on Mar 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

europeforvisitors:

Well, I'm sorry, but could you tell me where in my post I suggested people to quit their job?

And really, I didn't know there had been an ongoing problem, that people stopped working, stopped feeding their children, and believing they would be the next Stephen King, just because some people are looking for oportunities to make an extra income..

arubicus




msg:1433003
 10:46 pm on Mar 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

"I Will Make It"

BTW - I love the name - Good mindset.

I Will Make It




msg:1433004
 10:54 pm on Mar 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Thank you

Been in the MLM business way too long.
Needed something new, still hoping ;)

arubicus




msg:1433005
 11:02 pm on Mar 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hope is just a wish. A dream. Something to work towards. But that is all it is unless you take proper action. That is what make the dream a reality.

For those who care:

Sit in a chair for 3 hours and do nothing but sit. Don't even think. How much closer have you gotten to your hopes and dreams. Now get off your butt and do one simple action toward your dreams. Now how much closer are you compared to just sitting there? Hey it may be a small action but at least you moved an inch towards your dream. Not only that you added to your experiences, making your dream more realistic and attainable, and even produced motivation towards the next step. Stack the experience a mental references and take another action towards your dream. Keep stacking at every action.

Even if you never make you dream come true...along the way there arises other opportunities. You have also built strong references that can propell through these opportunities and in other areas in life.

How much opportunity is blowing right past you just sitting in the chair? How much more opportunity is instantly created by simple action? - ponder it but not that long - opportunity and time are passing

RowlandO




msg:1433006
 11:18 pm on Mar 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Thanks to ronburk for kicking this thread off and for a well thought out argument.

However, I believe that the essence of the post portrays a clearly biased viewpoint on the AdSense programme. The post suggests that it is difficult to create and sustain a website that generates a reasonable income from AdSense.

As ronburk points out, many on here will provide numerous examples of where good income can be made from AdSense. I do not believe they are in the minority as is suggested. I do, however believe that AdSense revenues are in direct proportion to two things:-

1.) The credibility /authority of the site.
2.) The amount of time and effort spent generating useful and unique content.

To provide some balance to the argument, here are my personal findings as a webmaster owning a site in a specialised technology area:-

Site Background
-Created Aug 2000
-Grown steadily, current page views ~7,000 /day

The site isn't the largest in terms of traffic volume but is considered to be an authortiy site and therefore the traffic that it does receive is highly focused to a particular technology sector.

The overall development time for the site is around 6 months (spread over 6 years).

Currently, the site takes around 3 hours per week to maintain.

Significance of AdSense
AdSense revenues have steadily increased since joining the program over 14 months ago.

11 months ago, mainly due to the AdSense revenues in place at that time, I was able to leave my day job (IT consultancy) and focus full time on the website.

Whilst AdSense didn't completely replace my occupational salary, it did provide enough income to pay living costs whilst going all out with a site redesign and re-launch.

Today
The site was re-launched last November. AdSense revenues are up ~100% compared to this time last year. In addition, the website now has several other revenue streams from context based affiliate marketing.

Whilst total revenues still do not quite replace the salary that I gave up, it is becoming a close run thing. I expect revenues from the site to match my old salary by September 2006.

Conclusions
Quitting the security of a day job was hard. Had it not have been for the small glimmer of hope that the AdSense programme had provided 11 months ago, I would still be working full time for someone else.

Had I have not quit the day job to get that extra development time, then the site would not be where it is today.

Many webmasters will undoubtedly testify to how "difficult" it is to make money with AdSense. Personally, I haven't found it "difficult" but it is time consuming for sure. However, if I'm going to spend time doing something to pay the bills, I would rather that "something" be for myself rather than working for someone else (no matter how well paid!).

One other thing to realise about AdSense (and PPC programmes in general) is that it embodies the principal of "royalties". That is to say, you get paid on a recurring basis for generating content. That means, you work (to generate content) and then get paid (small amounts) every day / night:-

Even when you are not "working", you are still getting paid - try doing that in a day job!

Is the effort worth it? Well, you can look at the numbers in this thread to get an idea of possible AdSense returns. AdSense revenues don't come 5 minutes after creating your website though! You also need to put at least as much time into generating your website as you do into your day job if you want to build a revenue of any proportions.

So, as a final sum up, I belive that AdSense can work for you. However, it requires persistence, work, effort and (here's the most difficult thing!) faith that the revenues will be there.

If you are a new webmaster, please don't be put off by stories of webmasters not being able to make AdSense work. For each of these stories there is another that will take the opposite view.

arubicus




msg:1433007
 11:29 pm on Mar 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

"Even when you are not "working", you are still getting paid - try doing that in a day job!"

My favorite aspect of it.

Here is a rule of thumb

You income tends to be in DIRECT proportion to the value you give. This isn't necessarily measured in time and energy. - something to think about.

ADSENSE requires an account and placing the code on your pages. That is it. That isn't difficult to do.

The difficulty lies in creating a site that is VALUABLE to visitors as well as advertisers. Adsense or not this is where your site truely becomes successful. This aspect has to be fulfilled above all. Adsense is an easy way to MONITIZE the value. So in all actuality the value is what creates the money not ADSENSE.

Idris




msg:1433008
 11:38 pm on Mar 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

It's interesting.

Maybe it's just that people have different outlooks on the web and the sites that they run (some create them with adsense in mind others create the site first and then think about adsense).

I don't think view from the lower end of the adsense chain is a bad thing. Post in this forum (and the fact that young "web entrepreneurs" are popping up all over the place) do give the impression that you can make thousands a month with very little effort (and the numerous template sites and ebooks encourage this), but it's not wrong to point out that this isn't always the case.

I suppose it would be easiest to see this if a poll were setup to see exactly how many members were earning handfuls and how many were earning thousands to give a clearer picture of how effective Adsense really is (and whether there really is a silent majority to offset those who happily publish their success).

arubicus




msg:1433009
 11:44 pm on Mar 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

"but it's not wrong to point out that this isn't always the case."

Yep that is one impression also

At the same time it is not wrong to "give the impression that you can make thousands a month with very little effort"

It is just an impression.

Each one is just as feasible as the other. Each can be done.

The likely hood of fulfilling higher incomes does not have to equate to alot of time and energy. It comes down to value. Value can be create all sorts of ways that requires less and less of your time. Again leverage.

"I suppose it would be easiest to see this if a poll were setup to see exactly how many members were earning handfuls and how many were earning thousands to give a clearer picture of how effective Adsense really is (and whether there really is a silent majority to offset those who happily publish their success)."

This poll would have to take into consderation the purpose of the site, the goals of the site, the business cycle the site is on. This poll will have to also determine value in relation to the site and advertisers, the site and visitors, and relation between the visitor and advertiser...

Jane_Doe




msg:1433010
 12:00 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Nobody is saying to quit your job and leave your family unfed BEFORE you create an alternative income. That is just a plain stupid comment to be made.

We actually did that (except for the leaving my family unfed part). My husband's job got transferred and I didn't want to move. So I talked him into just quitting and then I had two months lead time until his job ended to figure out how to support our family from from my web sites.

It is probably is not a good idea for everyone, but I'd been hanging around webmasterworld, already had a little income from consulting and my own sites, had a lot of help from a really nice person I met here at WebmasterWorld who was doing well, and I just had a good gut feel I could do it. It was a calculated risk that worked out pretty good.

europeforvisitors




msg:1433011
 12:12 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Look, there's nothing wrong with having dreams or pursuing goals. But there's been a backlash against Ronburk for introducing a badly needed dose of reality (not just realism, but reality) into this forum.

You can disagree with the numbers that Ronburk uses ($5-$10 per page per year, $20 per page per year, or whatever), but that doesn't invalidate what he has to say.

My advice: Pursue your dreams, but don't do it blindly. Know the challenges you face and work out a sensible plan to meet and beat those challenges. And think twice before quitting the day job for AdSense, because AdSense is an opportunity, not a career.

twist




msg:1433012
 12:34 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Site Background
-Created Aug 2000
-Grown steadily, current page views ~7,000 /day

The site isn't the largest in terms of traffic volume but is considered to be an authortiy site and therefore the traffic that it does receive is highly focused to a particular technology sector.

-Aug 2006

Someone realizes there is a potential market in a certain field. He hires a bunch of writers and a graphic artist and then buys some content. In about a month he slaps together a clean great looking website on the same topic as yours but about twice the size. He drops a few grand in advertising to get his site off the ground.

-Jan 2007

He has taken ~3,500 /day of your visitors. He moves on to his next project and repeats the cycle taking on someone else's market.

-Aug 2007

An investment company sees an opportunity to dominate a larger market that your market happens to fit into. They hire programmers and create new and better ways of delivering the same content. They knock both your site and the other guys site almost off the map.

I know I am pretty negative, but nobody reading this thread should get the impression that trying to make money off of websites is somehow different from any other way of making money. It is just as difficult and challenging as trying to get any other business started, and no different than a brick & morter business except the start up costs. When the Internet equivilant of Walmart comes to your neck of the woods. You might find your visitors and money gone just that quickly. This thread seems to focus on the climb to adsense wealth as if the opposite doesn't exist.

Jane_Doe




msg:1433013
 12:54 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Someone realizes there is a potential market in a certain field. He hires a bunch of writers and a graphic artist and then buys some content. In about a month he slaps together a clean great looking website on the same topic as yours but about twice the size. He drops a few grand in advertising to get his site off the ground.

Then you've got to be that's out there realizing the potential and moving into new markets and not the one just sitting there worried that it's going to happen to you. You know the old saying, the best defense is a good offense.

[edited by: Jane_Doe at 12:55 am (utc) on Mar. 29, 2006]

ronburk




msg:1433014
 12:55 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

(and whether there really is a silent majority to offset those who happily publish their success).

Thank you Idris for supplying this point of view! See, there really are people who don't believe that AdSense income follows a power law distribution (as it is pretty much guaranteed to do, due to the economics of the situation). There are really people who think that it's merely possible that there are a significant number of AdSensers who are making little income (as opposed to virtually certain that more than 75% of AdSense publishers are on the small end of the stick).

To reiterate, that was the real point of the post. This forum sees a regular stream of people just starting out, who clearly hope to make a livable income from AdSense. To leave them with the impression that I infer Idris has, that most people who try to make money with AdSense are doing pretty good, or at least OK, is a disservice. AdSense income must follow a power law distribution, and the vast majority of AdSense publishers will never make anywhere close to an American-style income from AdSense.

Does that mean people shouldn't try? Well, actually it probably does mean there are a lot of people who shouldn't try, in the sense that they would be financially better off doing something else. But my goal isn't to discourage people from trying, it's to encourage them to go into it with their eyes wide open. If you go into AdSense thinking that most AdSense publishers make $1,000/month or more, then your eyes aren't wide open at all.

At this point in history, AdSense has become the biggest self-employment dream in history. The very people who in bygone days would have been looking into stuffing envelopes at home, or running a vending machine business, or signing up for the latest no-I-swear-it's-not-a-pyramid scheme are flocking in droves to AdSense. I read and study the posts of people who are making good money with AdSense, and I hope they don't stop sharing information. It's just that it's worth pointing out that that is not going to be the fate of the vast majority of AdSense publishers.

Some people seem to interpret this simple point as a challenge to their own experience, or throwing cold water on people's dreams. Not the point. If you want to raise the odds of not being on the short end of the stick, you've simply got to understand what the stick looks like and where you're at on it.

IMHO :-)

arubicus




msg:1433015
 2:42 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

EPV

" Look, there's nothing wrong with having dreams or pursuing goals. But there's been a backlash against Ronburk for introducing a badly needed dose of reality (not just realism, but reality) into this forum."

The thing is epv that the article is complete rubish. It isn't a reality check. A reality check would have concrete FACT and express all aspects of the business. The article takes some random numbers and swayed to make a point. The article does not adress the realism of the money that CAN be made either to enhance the reality.

"but that doesn't invalidate what he has to say."

Sure it does. The numbers are FALSE and thus invalidate 99% of what is said. The only meaningful words left are that of -

"But I'm telling people to not do AdSense instead of getting an education, to not quit their job to do AdSense, to not forego relationships to work more on AdSense. And if you're here to tell me that you did all those things and you're now the NBA star equivalent of AdSense, well, just remember that one bad injury can take you out of the game forever"

Which is valid point that has been discussed to death here on WebmasterWorld already.

"My advice: Pursue your dreams, but don't do it blindly. Know the challenges you face and work out a sensible plan to meet and beat those challenges. And think twice before quitting the day job for AdSense, because AdSense is an opportunity, not a career. "

This is too good advice but any job, business, website...is actually just an opportunity the same. Jobs come and go with market conditions...same with websites. We just do it as long as we can until it is no longer feasible...guess what...we move on to other opportunities.

arubicus




msg:1433016
 3:00 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Ronburk

"power law distribution"

There you go again. Stating a "law" as if were a static never changing occurance. It isn't static. The law of power distribution states that power also converges, exchanges hands, and/or created through divergence. The law of power distribution also is not a zero sum game either. Power is created day in and day out. New business are formed. New diverged branches in technology and business. New ideas. New informtation. New channels of power open up. New channels to wealth are created by simple ideas.

Those once at the bottom can rise to the top. By overtaking the powerful - or - creating a new channel of power and wealth.

" But my goal isn't to discourage people from trying, it's to encourage them to go into it with their eyes wide open."

A poor way of doing it. Opening someone's eyes is to lay down the actual FACTS and fundementals. You never even offered the flip side of the coin. You pulled a few numbers out of your butt and crunched them in a way that isn't even REMOTELY how this model works. You never explained that those in bottom incomes may be due to many other factors and just lumped them into "undeperforming" businesses. You never explain nor do you factor in how the quality content actually give a site leverage in the market. You never offer an alternative nor supplied a contrasting example that uses leveraged time, energy or money. You never explained any more in debth web business anything...oh there is more left out and I think the reality check should be...REAL.

arubicus




msg:1433017
 3:15 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

"as opposed to virtually certain that more than 75% of AdSense publishers are on the small end of the stick"

Yeah I can do that to. As apposed to virtually certain that more than 90% of those on the small end of the stick are on the smaller end of that stick. So that those on the upper 2% of the stick are the elete bunch make the lion's share of the money in that group. They are the lucky ones who don't have to work for such pittance of the 90% of those poorer adsense folk.But then at least 8% of people make ok money in the short end of the stick.

Geez it reminds me of the ol' trick. Just quote a statistic (true or not) and people tend to believe you regardless.

Again there is a failure to mention that most adsensers at any point on the stick of the actual intents, goals, business cycles, purposes...of those sites. Are they growing/dying/innovating? Are they young sites, older mature sites. Are they in for the business or to supplement a hobby...

Jean




msg:1433018
 3:49 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Opening someone's eyes is to lay down the actual FACTS and fundementals. You never even offered the flip side of the coin.

ronburk's post is attempting to present one side of a coin BECAUSE many of the posts here (and elsewhere in the press and on the internet) are already presenting the other side and more and more people are getting unrealistic expectations. He is not purporting to present THE truth about AdSense or to write THE definite study.

markus007




msg:1433019
 4:36 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

In my experience the problem isn't that people lack ideas, its that they fail to follow through.

I've taught a bunch of friends how to make money online. I would say about 1 in 10 is capable, people earn $5-6/day and they give up, they think its to hard to make more or they just come up with excuses why they aren't writing more pages.

Its easy to make money if you sit down and force yourself to write 5-10 articles a day every day for a few months. In reality people will write 5-10 articles and then give up and try to make a new site or latch onto the next get rich easy adsense scheme. The trueth is if you sit down and just build a few big sites, you will find its a lot easier to double your income then it is to start from scratch. If you get a site big enough you get a lot of SEO traffic, and repeat visitors as the world starts thinking you are important.

As for MFA, does anyone think they will exist after yahoo and msn come out with their adsense clones? They have stated they won't allow MFA sites, and big adsense publishers aren't going to sit around and have MFA sites devalue the value of their clicks.

arubicus




msg:1433020
 4:42 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

"ronburk's post is attempting to present one side of a coin BECAUSE many of the posts here (and elsewhere in the press and on the internet) are already presenting the other side and more and more people are getting unrealistic expectations. He is not purporting to present THE truth about AdSense or to write THE definite study. "

MAny of the post here seem to be in the range of looking for help to make more money from adsense. Even in the threads of "how much do you make" I see a nice VARIETY of income levels. Across the net I see people say you can make alot and you can make nil. Both sides are being reported.

But being reasonable is to REPORT the truth and both sides of the story to constrast and compare. This article is one sided and no different that those who boast "you can make 10 billion dollars in adsense". If you want a true point of view then be the source of complete fact so that a person does not have to piece together everything. Show this...then show this...then you decide if the risk is worth taking.

G_Smitty




msg:1433021
 4:46 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

- nobody want to work eight hours a day writing to receive any amount three years later. Imagine you have a mortgage!


RobinK did it!

For me it is, I am a single mom, I worked a full-time job for two years while we were also establishing our main website. I didn't get much sleep and made very little money at first but it was all worth it.

Edge!

Bulls Eye ronburk! Everytime I read or hear somebody say "Free Money" and Adsense I just fume. I have almost six years of sweat, lost sleep, stress, and frustration attributed to my my site/Adsense earnings.


G_Smitty did it!

I had a full time carrer on top of my 4-8 hours a day on my website. I did this for 4 years before I struck gold. It was worth it all. It is not any different than spending 4 years in college working a full time job.


Adsense is just like any other business in life. It takes a lot of hard work, investment and sacrifices. The internet business is not for everyone.

I would like to hear from anyone who can say they made it rich with Adsesne without years of effort. I would also like to hear more stories of years of hard work, investment and sacrifices. How long did it take you to create a successful internet business?

arubicus




msg:1433022
 4:47 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

"Its easy to make money if you sit down and force yourself to write 5-10 articles a day every day for a few months. In reality people will write 5-10 articles and then give up and try to make a new site or latch onto the next get rich easy adsense scheme. The trueth is if you sit down and just build a few big sites, you will find its a lot easier to double your income then it is to start from scratch. If you get a site big enough you get a lot of SEO traffic, and repeat visitors as the world starts thinking you are important."

See this is a type of person that MAKES THE PROGRAM FAIL THEMSELVES not that the model fails.

G_Smitty




msg:1433023
 4:51 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

As for MFA, does anyone think they will exist after yahoo and msn come out with their adsense clones? They have stated they won't allow MFA sites, and big adsense publishers aren't going to sit around and have MFA sites devalue the value of their clicks.

Markus, if this happens I will be joining your million dollar club.

moTi




msg:1433024
 4:58 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

first off all: this thread is a legend! thank you all so much!

it all comes down to: "everyone can make it" or "not everyone can make it". i'm a friend of the latter.

what's new? the adsense barrier to start is incredibly low. much lower than to get whatever job. close to zero financial investment, only time and effort. that's pretty cheap for most starters.
nearly everyone gets approved. adsense is one big invitation to try it out. everyone can show either his success or his incapability. just to get it a little more heated: all the more important to point out that, like it or not, most people are incapable. why? because a) adsense is not suitable for every kind of so-called website and b) adsense is not suitable for every type of so-called webmaster.

there's nothing wrong to clarify, that most people will fail in earning a living through adsense. mostly because of no expertise, maybe because of no luck. they and their websites are not "made for visitors". it's no business for them. many will only earn a few dollars no matter how hard they work, how much they learn, how hard they try. worse: some will give up their existing decent life for a dream not to come true. worse: some will ruin their life because of their dream.

do it, but don't be surprised if it doesn't work out for you. don't do it, if you do not believe in your skills.

few remarks:

forget about the money per page per year concept. you can not measure earnings per page. just as it is quite useless to measure the success of a website by page views - many clicks = bad navigation ;)

we all know that overall income and unique visitors give a more realistic view. due to my site type, i've got a hundred thousand dynamic pages (no, not mfa). do you think the concept is applicable for me? am i doomed to be a millionaire with this amount of pages?

same applies to leverage. if i understand correctly, that should mean exponential growth of income based on steady productivity (remember: your time is limited)? or even more whacked-out, based on a few pages you have thrown into the web few years ago? nah.. look at a news site (i know, difficult market) and if you don't add tens of pages per day your visitors count and income will actually shrink within days.

it's all too different for particular websites to apply such general rules.

Piru




msg:1433025
 5:03 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've just read parts of your post and i can't really say that's "correct".
I am quite new with making adsense money and one of my sites is making $4/day with 12 pages. And if i did calculate correct it gives out: $116/year per page and $1392 from all 12. (150 daily visitors)

Anyways, if your calculation of the adsense income were correct, i'd probably quit right away and start looking for a part time job instead.

Now lets calculate at least $50/year per page to get something more normal up.

jetteroheller




msg:1433026
 5:15 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

An investment company sees an opportunity to dominate a larger market that your market happens to fit into. They hire programmers and create new and better ways of delivering the same content. They knock both your site and the other guys site almost off the map.

What a complete nonsens.

This sort of company will by 99,99% make all wrong.
They will test all the great SEO ideas to have trouble with Google.

No investment company hears on good SEOs "It will take hard work, good contend and some years".
Investment companies will hear only SEOs "We have a perfect software, we generated 10 million reference pages to get top positions in 10 days guaranteed"

Investment companies are so much in the get rich quick idea, that they will make all wrong in this area what can be done wrong.

G_Smitty




msg:1433027
 5:27 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Thank you MoTi. You just said it all. This thread should have a warning. "Read sitting down. Will make you dizzy or lightheaded"

Alex_Miles




msg:1433028
 5:55 am on Mar 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Arbicus said,


At the same time it is not wrong to "give the impression that you can make thousands a month with very little effort"

It is just an impression.

I grew up among people who considered it a personal virtue to put a lot of 'effort' into everything. Everything except thinking.

I have therefore come to value technique over effort. It breaks fewer fingernails.

The next thing is positive thinking. I don't mean the 'I can do anything I think I can'. Thats plainly not true no matter how often you say it. But the kind of positive thinking where you imagine what your ideal result would look like.

Most people, IMHO, spend far too much time in the here and now, focussing on current problems and 'the real world'.

I like to set to work following through on one of my ideas (the best idea in the world is only as good as its implementation) and while I'm doing the routine work, I let my mind wander towards how I want things to pan out. This is important.

Whatever you habitually fill your mind with is taken, on an unconscious level, as an instruction. The mind will scan the real environment all the time, looking to make your 'vision' real. So your vision best be a good one full of success and not some worst case scenario. Plan for the worst case, but invest your *emotions* into the best one.

I like to imagine myself in an imaginary future, having lots of free time for mischief, enough money, and a big happy smile on my face. Then I look around my vision to see what I'd *had* to do to achieve that. What does success look like? How was it achieved? You can track a path back from this vision to the here and now. How is the infrastructure of your life different? What present condition was necessary so this future could happen?

Come back to earth then get to work on that condition!

When I made my $72 pages, my mind sure didn't have $5 in mind. It saw itself telling the truth in an area full of BS. Once I'd done that a queue of grateful little customers and merchants began to form from here to the horizion and in their hands they held $100 bills which they would fold into little paper aeroplanes and launch, one after the other onto the breeze, in my general direction.

In that case I had social utility in mind more than money, but the money happened too. It never occurred to me the site would fail.

If you think you will fail, you *will* fail due to lack of follow-through - and the numerous ways the mind has of proving itself right.

If you think you will succeed, you might.

[edited by: Alex_Miles at 6:13 am (utc) on Mar. 29, 2006]

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