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This 71 message thread spans 3 pages: < < 71 ( 1 [2] 3 > >     
AdSense Angst: Lightning from the Sky
Revisiting the Banned Account Process
Publisher

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 1:58 pm on Mar 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

After reading this forum (and others) it becomes clear that many AdSense publishers are living in fear of being banned from AdSense.

It would be a worthwhile endeavor if Google would develope a better system for handling these situations.

First, if banning your site is being considered by Google, they could notify you, and tell you what the offenses are. They could immediately discontinue paying for clicks on your site until you bring your site into compliance. A time table could be set up to become compliant.

Second, as it stands now, if your site is banned, you have no recourse, whether you're at fault, or someone else.

There should be a system in place, listing steps to be followed as to what you need to do to have the ban lifted. If your site is in total non-compliance, they could tell you that your site cannot be reinstated as it exists. If you the victim of someone else's click fraud, you should be able to present your case to them, showing server logs, etc.

Google AdSense can represent a significant amount of income to publishers. To cut them off without notice, give them no recourse, or no opportunity to fix problems is unfair. Most AdSense publishers want to work within the rules, and most would adjust their sites to come into compliance if given half a chance.

 

tonyolm

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 5:35 am on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

I'd kiss googles butt if I could.. Google has been good.

Mr_Fern

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 6:25 am on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

The only thing I would have to say regarding this issue is that perhaps Google should make it more clear that if you are banned, that they will give you the chance to explain yourself.

The way they make things sound, once you're kicked out you're no longer welcome. This is the result of angry people cursing google, saying they're a fraud, etc. etc.

Some people have been reinstated, as there's proof of that in this forum as well as other forums. But it's all about how you approach the situation. If you know you did no wrong, just find out how you can help prove that.

I know I'd be upset if I was kicked out for something I didn't do, but on the other side of things if I was an advertiser paying, I'd be a lot more upset that something was going on to artificially raise my budget. Those people come first, after all, without those people, there'd be no adsense.

andrea99



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 7:13 am on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

It is as though they lack the social grace to end a relationship without tying up loose ends. Somewhat like a friend who just stops speaking to you without explanation and isn't bright enough to realize how bad it makes them look.

I think Google is just emotionally disturbed, too inward looking. They should get out more...

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 7:14 am on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

And given this, when presented with suspicious clicks, Google has no choice but to ...

Google doesn't automatically boot any publisher who has suspicious clicks. Those suspicious clicks are likely to trigger a review, however.

AreYouOnTheNet

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 9:58 am on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

I think google is taking a guilty until proven innocent approach and your defence to show you are innocent is not available or not permisable in the google court. Not to slam 'em but simply to respond that if you are under suspicion, they don't contact you if the do a review, based on that suspicion - they simply ban you.

It'd be easier if they sent a three day warning or something so we can respond to their reviews and address their suspicions. Clearly those who cannot provide a clear defence won't even bother to respond. But those that can - would have the time to engage in discussion.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 4:46 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Not to slam 'em but simply to respond that if you are under suspicion, they don't contact you if the do a review, based on that suspicion - they simply ban you

Google isn't a court of law, and you don't have to be proven guilty of anything to be banned from AdSense. Just as you have the right to terminate the relationship if you feel uncomfortable, so does Google.

Note of reassurance: AdSenseAdvisor once explained that publishers aren't banned automatically, and that multiple staff members are involved in the decision to shut down a publisher's account. So, while your account can be disabled if you fail to pass the "sniff test," you can at least be confident that more than one nose is doing the sniffing.

Mansi_Khan

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 4:59 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

I agree with all of you people here, Google just doesnt seem to respect their publishers.
On around 7th-8th March i got the dreaded mail, stating that i was banned due to invalid clicks. Just the last day when i had checked my account, i had NO clicks whatsoever in the WHOLE month of March. On mailing them i got petty responses, not divulging one bit as to what went wrong. I had even offered them my site's password to see for themselves that i wasnt responsible for anything. But it was of no avail. I was a very small publisher,but an honest one and had just opened up my site in Jan.
They crushed my dreams. I was inspired to no ends by this fabulous forum. I saw a glimmmer of hope, that i could with perhpas with hardwork and dedication improve my living standard.
I had made 355+ html pages all manually edited in around 5 days, because of the limited time at that time since my exams were near, and i was also planning to build over 2000 pages in the summer. Whats more, i did everything i could in compliance with adsense.
What was my fault? The fact that i dreamed...? Dreamed that i could move on....? Dreamed that i could improve and use my hardwork and skill to earn a better living? Or the fact that i could reduce the burden on my parents of my study fees...?
I had no warning whatsoever. I had NO clicks in march, and out comes a mail stating that you are banned due to invalid clicks. How more unjust could they get...? I know they hold all the controls because of the agreement in adsense policy and agreement, but then respect is something too.
The only reason could be that they saw that i was small publisher, like an ant to them, so they dispersed me... ignorant of the fact that even the smallest of beings have emotions, or another could have been that of racism because i am a Pakistani.

I had done nothing whatsoever. I know everybody says this when they get banned, but honestly, i did nothing.
Now they have left me standing on the middle of the road, empty and bare-handed with my dreams crushed.
I am but an ordinary , honest, & bright student. I guess that was my fault ... being born in the East ...and the fact that i am a Muslim.

activeco

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 5:44 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Now they have left me standing on the middle of the road, empty and bare-handed with my dreams crushed.
I am but an ordinary , honest, & bright student. I guess that was my fault ... being born in the East ...and the fact that i am a Muslim.

One thing for sure: Google has no preferences or dislikes towards any religious, poltical or racial group or any other discriminatory policy.
On the contrary, they have been often attacked for reasons of "supporting communists" or "allowing terrorists to have their voices heard".
Google is probably one of the last non-silenced big fighters for spreading independent opinions or defending privacy issues and the last thing one can accuse them is being biased.

In fact, your rhetoric makes me a bit suspicious about your story, but it could be just me.
Fortunately, I don't hold a seat in the Google's Banning Board.

andrea99



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 6:16 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

I have been one of the more vocal critics of Google for their insensitivity to their publishers, but accusing Google of racism is absurd and dilutes the accusations of those who really have been victims of racism.

Those who falsely cry racism actually make their own problem worse by increasing racial resentment, though some people do have ulterior motives for increasing racial tension.

jema

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 7:06 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

I really don't think that google bans a lot of innocent people, and would be prepared to bet that most people pleading innocence know they are not.

However I think google does itself no favours by not being somewhat more explicet in telling people why they have been banned.

It would be a lot harder for the banned to come whining to this forum besmirching googles reputation, if instead of a non specific ban notice, they were given a more detailed reason. This would also help people who actually are innocent make their case.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 7:18 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

It would be a lot harder for the banned to come whining to this forum besmirching googles reputation, if instead of a non specific ban notice, they were given a more detailed reason.

Google's reputation can withstand besmirching by people who post anonymously on forums (especially since any reasonably intelligent adult knows that it's human nature to proclaim innocence unless there's visible evidence to the contrary).

This would also help people who actually are innocent make their case.

It would also help the guilty figure out how they got caught.

jomaxx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jomaxx us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 7:22 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

It would be a lot harder for the banned to come whining to this forum...

Strongly disagree. It would be a lot easier and a lot more common.

Even if they are candid about what Google told them, they would have had plenty of time to make up semi-plausible explanations and denials. "I wasn't even home at that time", "It must have been that employee I had just fired that morning", etc. etc. etc. Poisonous and totally unverifiable.

openmind

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 7:28 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Common sense tells me that Google has no reason to ban an account if everything is OK with it. Why should they? Google is one of the most successful internet companies, it just wouldn't make sense if they randomly got rid of valuable business partners.

jema

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 7:36 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

My experience suggests that whilst some people are outright liars, most people do want to twist things in their own minds to have some sort of belief in their own innocence.
As such pinning them down to exactly what they were guilty of, would be more effective.

DamonHD

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 7:37 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi openmind,

You have the key: ethical or not, G is a business. They would not can viable business partners for no reason. It's not worth their effort nor opportunity cost.

Rgds

Damon

DamonHD

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 7:41 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi jema,

You are ignoring the tendency of people to twist their minds and the facts to ignore or discount explanations they don't like.

If G said: "we watched on the CCTV you clicking your own ads, and have a transcript of you boasting about it down the pub to our investigator" then the fraudsters would still say "it wasn't me: I have an evil twin" etc etc.

A case today in the papers of a railway boss who disabled the brakes on rolling stock to save money and killed several of his own staff, and showed no remorse and tried to pass the blame... He got 9 years in the slammer I'm pleased to say.

Rgds

Damon

Mansi_Khan

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 8:11 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Openmind, beleive it or not i had NO clicks at all in the month of March, & around 7th-8th march i was banned. And what do u get...? A pretty mail stating that you are banned due to invalid clicks.
And when you mail them, telling them that you respect the integrity of adsense & adwords but would like to know exactly WHY was i banned, u get a mail saying that we cant reveal that sorry.
After making tons of efforts into developing ur site, when u get responses like these how would u feel? Ecstatic perhaps?
Its easy to say all that stuff, just step into my shoes u would know better to talk like that.
As for proving your innocence, what more could you do than give ur site's password so that they can see the stats for themselves...?
As for racism, i meant it in terms of trust. Google will give more credit & lease to Americans & Europeans. Especially in matters such as these. Ask for yourself, if u were living outside America like if u were an african or asian, which employee would u prefer: african, mongolian or American? Most probably American. If you could, like google has, u would want a diversity of employees, YET at the same time you WILL give credibility to the USA employer.

But ofcourse. You have your site running well, adsense churning on, account still intact, u wouldnt understand the ANGST when u get banned, especially if you werent guilty.
Anyways, my advice would be that never 'depend' on adsense. Do keep your other jobs. You never know when google may find that your site isnt one they like, and wouldnt mind giving u a kick in the a** , without even saying 'Thank You'.

openmind

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 8:27 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Mansi_Khan, I do understand your situation and of course you are frustrated because your account was disabled. Could you please tell us more about your site? What topic is it about? You say, you didn't have any Adsense clicks in March. How come? Also, have you considered the fact that you might get banned for other reasons than 'clicking on your ads'. There could have been other issues. Are you sure you had read the Adsense TOS and complied with them? As for cultural diversity and being American or European, you certainly know that Sergey Brin himself was born in Russia and I think there is no such thing as 'an American'. Americans come from all kinds of countries and they resemble all kinds of races, cultures, regilions, etc. So why would Google ban you because of your nationality? Google is a business, not a religion.

Mansi_Khan

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 8:28 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

DamonHD:"You are ignoring the tendency of people to twist their minds and the facts to ignore or discount explanations they don't like."

Explanations like " sorry we cant reveal anything due to the proprietary nature of our ads "
...?!

Mansi_Khan

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 8:40 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Well when they say that you are banned for "Invalid Clicks" what else could that mean?
My site is site containing essays & quotations. Relatively new as i said before. It started getting hits from google around the last days of Feb.
The design is pretty much OK, with a flash menu on the left which does fit in with the site's look well.

"Americans come from all kinds of countries " - Really?! I thought Americans meant people with the nationality of United States Of America. :)

"So why would Google ban you because of your nationality" -
What i mean is that in situations such as mine they wouldnt give me 'preference'. I dont state that they did ban me because of my nationality, but it does play on their minds. I know a few ppl on the net who got banned, and they were mostly asians, but they were attacked by clicks. Also even in this forum, u will find that most people who asked for help regarding banned accounts were asians.

[edited by: Mansi_Khan at 8:45 pm (utc) on Mar. 18, 2006]

Publisher

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 8:44 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Explanations like " sorry we cant reveal anything due to the proprietary nature of our ads

All they need to do is tell you where you violated their TOS.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 10:02 pm on Mar 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

I dont state that they did ban me because of my nationality, but it does play on their minds.

How would you know that?

gregbo

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 12:59 am on Mar 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

Google doesn't automatically boot any publisher who has suspicious clicks. Those suspicious clicks are likely to trigger a review, however.

OK, I exaggerated a bit. But if suspicious clicks prompt a review that reveals even more suspicious clicks, keeping in mind the situation I was originally responding to:

So priority #1 is convincing advertisers that fraud will be dealt with mercilessly.

What choice do they have but to terminate the account? They can't very well charge the advertiser, neither can they absorb the cost of the clicks.

gregbo

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 1:07 am on Mar 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

As for proving your innocence, what more could you do than give ur site's password so that they can see the stats for themselves...?

Google has no way of knowing whether or not you tampered with your site stats before giving them your password.

gregbo

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 1:20 am on Mar 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

What was my fault? The fact that i dreamed...? Dreamed that i could move on....? Dreamed that i could improve and use my hardwork and skill to earn a better living?

Not knowing anything about you and what you're studying, I think you have some more learning to do about life, if nothing else. At least, you should stop and think critically about the service that G provides through AdSense and if it is the best thing for you to do to make money. I could argue that you might have been better off providing web page creation services rather than creating pages to place AdSense on.

jomaxx

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jomaxx us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 1:34 am on Mar 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

Mansi_Khan, nobody is attacking you personally. We don't know any of the details of your site and your situation, so accusing you of lying or wrongdoing would be pointless.

This particular thread is a general discussion and we're kind of generalizing based on the many "I've been banned" posts that have come up in the past.

P.S. I'm not sure if anyone pointed this out to you, but "invalid clicks" can also refer to any part of your website that violates the rules. If you ask visitors to click the ads, have prohibited content on your site, etc., clicks from this site are considered to be "invalid".

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 2:34 am on Mar 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

But if suspicious clicks prompt a review that reveals even more suspicious clicks...

I suspect that a bigger risk for many publishers is what the reviewer will see when looking at the site. Let's look at two hypothetical examples:

1) A site with content of intrinsic value that would have reason to exist without AdSense.

2) An obviously "made for AdSense" site with little or no value besides the ads.

Which site do you think would have the better chance of passing the "sniff test"? And which site do you think would be less likely to receive the benefit of the doubt?

ann

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ann us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 4:16 am on Mar 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

Mansi_Khan,

Here is a possible reason for your banning

From Google T&C

.....In addition, Google reserves the right to terminate without notice any account that has not generated a sufficient number of valid clicks on Ads or Referral Buttons or valid impressions of Ads (in each case as measured by Google) for a period of two (2) months....

Sounds like your problem to me.

Ann

Mansi_Khan

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 9:47 am on Mar 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

'.....In addition, Google reserves the right to terminate without notice any account that has not generated a sufficient number of valid clicks on Ads or Referral Buttons or valid impressions of Ads (in each case as measured by Google) for a period of two (2) months....'

I dont think it was. I had around 99 $s in Feb.

Mansi_Khan

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 10:13 am on Mar 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

Publisher: "All they need to do is tell you where you violated their TOS"

If you are an American or englishman , i pity on you.
There is a subtle difference between 'state' and 'explain'.

gregbo: "Not knowing anything about you and what you're studying, I think you have some more learning to do about life, if nothing else. At least, you should stop and think critically about the service that G provides through AdSense and if it is the best thing for you to do to make money. I could argue that you might have been better off providing web page creation services rather than creating pages to place AdSense on"
Well since you DONT know me , you cant argue what is good or best for me. Infact if you had any sense of logic , you would have realised that creating pages with adsense on it WAS best for. I stated that i am a Student. Therefore i cant devoute full time to web-designing. Henceforth, it would be really difficult to take the demands of ppl and create content for them since there is no knowing when you are busy or engrossed in your studies. So making them pages , on their demand and on time was not something suitable for me.

andrea99



 
Msg#: 12761 posted 7:23 pm on Mar 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

...their demand and on time was not something suitable for me.

Well guess what Mansi_Khan, figuring out the needs of AdSense is a demand on your time too. You seem to have plenty of time for complaining, accusing others of racism and making lame excuses. I think you should take your role as a student more seriously and study up on AdSense instead of blaming others for your problems.

This 71 message thread spans 3 pages: < < 71 ( 1 [2] 3 > >
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