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This 66 message thread spans 3 pages: 66 ( [1] 2 3 > >     
Site Targetting vs Contextual Targetting
Now we know the truth, how do they compare?
vincevincevince

WebmasterWorld Senior Member vincevincevince us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 4:57 pm on Mar 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

The new adsense reports, when you select to view by Ad Unit, allow you to show the Targetting type.

Waits while everyone runs to check...

What I want to know is how well the ad unit eCPM compares, like for like, between your Site and Contextual targetted income.

For me I'm seeing that Site targetting is giving less than 10% eCPM compared to Contextual targetting in all cases.

 

caran1

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 5:10 pm on Mar 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

site targetting is 2% of contextual eCPM for my sites

dj_webm

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 5:16 pm on Mar 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

After Site Targeting was introduced, few weeks later I've opted out from Site Targeted ads, and after seeing stats today I'm very happy that I did it.

1, 2, 3 clicks a day on Site Targeted ads for a few days - 0 (nill) earning, 0 eCPM ....

My average eCPM ~$50, any ideas how those 'targeted' ads where bringing ZERO? not funny...

creativepart

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 5:18 pm on Mar 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

My site makes much more on contextual targeting then Site targeting. Usually 50% more per day. And no wonder, rather than 4 good highly-targeted links showing on my page I just get one big text link. And my site is targeted for this one big link over and over and over again.

Because I have a high traffic forum site, I don't have that many new visitors to the site (25% a day or so). So, the regulars that come back day after day get tired of seeing the one big text ad every time they visit the page.

When Adsense decides to serve a greater number of contextual ads than Site ads I make more money... I wish I had some control over that decision.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 5:27 pm on Mar 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Site-targeted ads pay a small fraction of the eCPM that I get with contextual ads, but so what? Low-paying site-targeted CPM ads are "filler ads" that get displayed only when even lower-paying CPC ads or non-paying PSAs would show up.

FWIW, only about 1/2 of 1 percent of my site's ad impressions last month were site-targeted CPM ads, so they're below the radar as far as I'm concerned. If I were getting a lot of low-paying CPM ads, I'd regard those ads as a symptom of bigger problems--namely, the fact that AdSense contextual ads weren't performing well with my site (and vice versa).

Hobbs

WebmasterWorld Senior Member hobbs us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 5:34 pm on Mar 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

It depends on your kind of site, it's popularity, the amount of traffic, % of fresh new visitors and where this traffic usually comes from, last but not least if you have an advertiser targeting you in the first place when you check.

I don't know how useful this info can be to you since it is very site specific but here goes:

Site targeted eCPM is 1.7 times the overall site eCPM
CPM earnings is around 10% of total site earnings.

Am I happy with CPM on my site? I am not sure, I think I don't like it, too busy with my content right now to worry about that, will trust Google (for now) to do what's best.

whbiz

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 10:06 pm on Mar 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

This is an eye-opener feature for me, though I cannot say I am entirely surprised by the results. My contextual metrics are:

- 16% of my ad unit impressions are from CPM
- eCPM is 505% higher than site targeting
- CTR is 500% higher than site targeting (doesnt make an impact anyway since CPM)

I am amazed at how poor my eCPM is for site targeting than contextual targeting. Would I have been better off if I opted out of site targeting and simply showed contextual advertising?

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 10:19 pm on Mar 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Would I have been better off if I opted out of site targeting and simply showed contextual advertising?

Not according to Google.

david_uk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 10:23 pm on Mar 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Am I glad I opted out! I think PSA's pay more :)

21_blue

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 10:25 pm on Mar 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

EFV wrote:
Low-paying site-targeted CPM ads are "filler ads" that get displayed only when even lower-paying CPC ads or non-paying PSAs would show up.

The stats from my site suggest that this was not happening.

Like you, the site-targetted eCPM was a fraction of contextual eCPM before I opted out. But I saw these ads appearing on my site sometimes during prime UK business time and sometimes on prime pages. I can easily fill all the ad space I create, so I'm pretty sure there was plenty of well-paying ad inventory that was being displaced by CPM ads. In view of these stats showing how poorly CPM ads pay, it's no wonder my income level recovered when I opted out.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 10:29 pm on Mar 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

The stats from my site suggest that this was not happening.

Well, that's how it's supposed to work (according to Google), and it appears to be true on my site. Nothing is perfect, however, and it's certainly possible that the "CPM or CPC?" algorithm may screw up from time to time, just as the ad-targeting algorithm does.

vincevincevince

WebmasterWorld Senior Member vincevincevince us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 11:16 pm on Mar 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Judging by the responses so far I'm amazed that Google made this data available. I guess they tried to pull up the CPM income but have effectively given up?

To my mind, if a unit is getting $20 eCPM on average contextually then allowing site-targetting ad which pays anything less than $20 CPM seems wrong?

Process

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 1:00 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Dramatically low numbers on our sites as well with site targeting. Statistically insignificant, but...

Should I opt out? I guess it is not really a opt out, but it will atleast get rid of the "Advertise on this site".

Or should I leave it there to contribute to the greater good of Google and publishers, since it will cause more advertisers to sign-up for Adwords.

Rodney

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 1:07 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I guess it is not really a opt out, but it will atleast get rid of the "Advertise on this site".

You can get rid of the "Advertise on this site" without opting out of site-targetting.

It's in the account settings area.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 1:19 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

To my mind, if a unit is getting $20 eCPM on average contextually then allowing site-targetting ad which pays anything less than $20 CPM seems wrong?

It isn't wrong; it makes perfect sense. Why? Because site-targeted ads can't be as precisely targeted as contextual ads are, which means they won't perform as well for the advertisers--unless an advertiser is doing a branding campaign, and how many advertisers are going to do branding campaigns with AdSense text ads?

I think site-targeted CPM are meant to be "remnant ads," except in the rare (non-existent?) cases where advertisers are willing to pay top dollar for CPM ads on a handful of carefully chosen sites.

Down the line, that could change, especially if Google is able to make inroads into the broader advertising market where buyers are used to picking their media and paying on a CPM basis. But for now, most advertisers who use site-targeted CPM ads are probably just testing the waters to see if they can save money with the AdSense equivalent of remnant ads.

Mr_Fern

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 1:38 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I have a higher eCPM for site targeted ads in comparison with contextual. However, I display more contextual than site targeted. For a day with 1,000,000 impressions maybe 60,000 are site targeted.

prieshach

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 1:49 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

My site targeted eCPM for Feb was 1.5 times higher than the contextual eCPM. But the click thru rate was a quarter of the contextual CTR.

Which I think is doubly good, as it would appear to mean more money overall for less visitors leaving my site.

In my case, the % share of site targetted impressions has been steadily increasing over the last 3 months.

Process

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 3:13 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Rodney, that's what I meant by opt out (Account settings area). Can you actually truly opt out? I may have remembered reading somewhere that you can actually truly opt out as a custom case by sending a personal mail to adsense?

Also, in the general discussion, I agree in the straightforward case where if you have one block it is probably best to leave it to Google's algos to fill that with contextual or site ads. However, in our case with 2 adjacent blocks with collapsing alternate urls, we would rather have the 2nd block collapse rather than display low paying site ads in that block which may reduce the CTR on the primary block.

Also, are site targeted ads always CPM ads or can they also be CPC?

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 3:13 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I wonder what role smart pricing has in determining whether site-targeted CPM ads appear. If smart pricing is devaluing the CPC (and EPC) of contextual ads on your site below a certain point, won't that increase the likelihood that you'll see site-targeted CPM ads? (Site-targeted CPM ads aren't "smart-priced," are they?)

alika

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 3:45 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I think ASA said before that CPM ads are not smart priced.

The new stats made me look hard at the CPM ads and I can't help but think that I might be losing money everytime these ads are shown. Opportunity cost may be high for me, especially given the traffic levels, type of site, and the kind of visitors the site attracts. The ECPM of my contextual ads is 4x higher than that of site targeted ads. I just sent an email to the Adsense team requesting to opt out of CPM ads.

GoldenHammer

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 3:51 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Google has made this a nice move, this can help the publishers to determine what is better for them.

I had previously requested to disable site targeting, but now I am going to have it back because the statistics report tells me the targetting is performing better.

I hope Google can make further improvement to enable the optimization from the publisher sides.

dvd1000

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 4:46 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

A site with multiple topics will not be very suitable for site targetting?

ken_b

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ken_b us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 4:53 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

A site with multiple topics will not be very suitable for site targetting?

Advertizers can use section targeting along with site targeting to have their ads show where they want them.

danimal



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 5:41 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

thanks for that info, ken.

jetteroheller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jetteroheller us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 5:56 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Am I glad I opted out! I think PSA's pay more :)

I am still searching a PSA solution briniging me at last 1% of the eCPM of AdSense ads

jetteroheller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jetteroheller us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 6:10 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Seems site targeting is only 0,1% of my ads.

Site targeted ads bring in average only 20% of the eCPM of the context ads.

Maybe site targeted ad is used by Google as something between context ads and PSA.

david_uk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 6:52 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

To my mind, if a unit is getting $20 eCPM on average contextually then allowing site-targetting ad which pays anything less than $20 CPM seems wrong?

It isn't wrong; it makes perfect sense. Why? Because site-targeted ads can't be as precisely targeted as contextual ads are, which means they won't perform as well for the advertisers--unless an advertiser is doing a branding campaign, and how many advertisers are going to do branding campaigns with AdSense text ads?

Sorry - I disagree here. It's clearly wrong, and if anything it shows just how seriously flawed Google's "Proprietary technology" actually is.

Google don't have a responsibility to either publishers or advertisers. They use both parties in order to satisfy Google's shareholders. Therefore Google's responsibility to shareholders is to sell the ad space for the maximum advertiser revenue, and minimum payout to publishers.

As the top quote says, if an ad unit is getting $20 eCPM all the time, then the last thing they should be doing from the point of satisfying investors is to ignore the fact there are plenty of ads in the auction to achieve the $20 and giving the space over to a campaign that only pays $1 per 1000! It's nuts to give away a space worth $20 per 1000 to an advertiser that pays $1 per 1000 - yet that's precicely what's happening!

It's insane from the investor point of view, as well as annoying the hell out of advertisers willing to pay the going rate who are bumped off, and publishers whose valuable real estate is needed by both advertisers and Google!

I don't buy the argument they are used as "Filler ads". OK - on some sites maybe, but in the main no. I've been with adsense over 2 years now, and in a tight niche. When I started I saw psa's half the time due to lack of inventory and budgets. After 6 months or so, I ceased to see psa's except for the odd occasion on a nwe page, or in one case when stop words were causing psa's to display.

IMHO, Google's inventory is very, very broad and there is not a shortage of well paying ads. My eCPM averages $30, and there isn't any shortage of advertisers willing to bid for placement. Surely it's Google's duty to investors to sell my ad space for that amount if there are advertisers willing to pay it?

I've opted out of advertise on this site and cpm ads - somebody has to protect Google's investors from Google's stupidity!

On the point of introducing the new feature - it's something we have been asking Google to supply for a very long time. Thanks for providing it Google! It also another example of how Google do actually listen to feedback from this forum (as well as other places) and ideas do get fed back into the program!

jetteroheller

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jetteroheller us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 7:41 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

It's nuts to give away a space worth $20 per 1000 to an advertiser that pays $1 per 1000 - yet that's precicely what's happening!

I have difficulties to get out from my PSA replacements at last 1% of the eCPM from the normal ads.

If site targeted CPM ads are just something a little bit above PSA, they put it there, because an context ad would have at this place a high smart pricing discount and would bring less than the context ad.

tallguy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 9:46 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

If we disable site targetting, how much time does it take to come into effect?

Freedom

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 12430 posted 10:22 am on Mar 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Site targeted ads are less then .1 percent of my total and the eCPM is about 40 percent of the contextual ads.

And I have to side with vincevincevince and david_uk over EFV in the debate over the purpose of even having them.

This has not been a clear win-win for advertisers and publishers.

My 2 cents.

This 66 message thread spans 3 pages: 66 ( [1] 2 3 > >
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