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Google Finance, Govt, Policy and Business Issues Forum

GoogleNet - Rumors of a Parallel Internet Surface

 12:13 pm on Aug 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Business 2.0 is running a story [business2.com] on Google purchasing a great deal of unused fibre cable around the US.

let's call it the GoogleNet -- massive enough to rival even the country's biggest Internet service providers. Business 2.0 has learned from telecom insiders that Google is already building such a network, though ostensibly for many reasons. For the past year, it has quietly been shopping for miles and miles of "dark," or unused, fiber-optic cable across the country from wholesalers such as New York’s AboveNet. It's also acquiring superfast connections from Cogent Communications and WilTel, among others, between East Coast cities including Atlanta, Miami, and New York. Such large-scale purchases are unprecedented for an Internet company...



 12:29 pm on Aug 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

If anything ever elicited visions of the kind of a parallel universe that would appeal to sci-fans this would have to be a prime candidate. I'm not sure whether it would make a better Stephen King horror novel or a George Lukas or Steven Spielberg sci-fi fantasy flick (or both), but it's definitely futuristic fodder for the creative Hollywood imagination.

Google's secret fiber-optic underground network - it literally titillates the imaginative senses with latent possibilities.


 12:47 pm on Aug 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

The other day, I believe at WW someone said Google is the new Microsoft. When I read about something like this that sounds true, or at least the potential is there. It would seem that Google is building quite an empire. The question is how will they use it.

Lord Majestic

 12:53 pm on Aug 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Bandwidth is the biggest current bottleneck -- it is cheaper and faster to send a few hard drives full of data via UPS or Fed Ex, than use available connectivity that is never fast enough, certainly for Google. From this point of view buying lots of fiber just to update data centers is a complete overkill, however Google must be planning something that would result in high bandwidth use by their customers, which is where their own fiber would cut down costs massively.

Examples of use could be DVDs on demand -- I would pay fixed monthly fee to access on demand complete library of movies that were made out there.


 1:40 pm on Aug 29, 2005 (gmt 0)



 2:35 pm on Aug 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

It's only a matter of time until Hollywood releases a movie where a super popular search engine/portal (eerily similar to Google) is portrayed as the bad guy big brother that is brain washing and mind controlling users.

What does that have to do with this article? The more Google expands and "gets in our homes" - the more of a pop culture backlash there will be.

A related thought: Google, Yahoo & MSN - the AT&T, MCI and Sprint of the 21st Century.


 2:41 pm on Aug 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

search "dvr hosting"


 4:39 pm on Aug 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

The last mile is always the most expensive mile. So I don’t see the fiber as being something that will help them get in homes. I attempted to purchase TW fiber all the way to my house. The quote was $2K a month even though the fiber ring was 1/4 of a mile from my house. The reason for the expense was that they would need to dig up all the concrete between the ring and my house. I told TW yes and signed the contract. Later a TW VP killed the plan even though I had a quote from a sales person and a signed contract. Just too expensive for them and required too many permits.

So I suspect the fiber is for another purpose other then connecting end users.

Attempting to cut out the middle man, if you transfer enough data it makes sense to own the fiber. Bandwidth is super cheap in certain cities, so if you can buy fiber to that city then you can buy cheap bandwidth at that city rather then in your own city. But Google mostly uses inbound bandwidth, so instead of buying fiber they should find the largest outbound bandwidth customers in the nation (adult sites) and form a bandwidth partnership. Just kidding but it truely works. Inbound can be purchased at $5/M when doing that. That is practically free. Also try not to purchase bandwidth using a well known name as you will get more expensive quotes that way. :)

Lord Majestic

 4:43 pm on Aug 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

The last mile is always the most expensive mile.

WiMAX or something similar will be the answer for the last mile. Dark fiber dates back many years -- in .COM time it made sense to put as much fiber as possible, most of which was dark because there was no need for it, but cost wise it was cheap, so Google must have gotten a very good deal.


 6:21 pm on Aug 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

it is cheaper and faster to send a few hard drives full of data via UPS or Fed Ex
I am wondering if this is true:
- you can get a 1Gbit line for $10k/mo and transfer 300TB/mo
- 300TB could be stored and 'shipped' on about 1,200 HDs


 8:46 pm on Aug 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google must be planning something that would result in high bandwidth use by their customers

GBackup? "Continuously backup your data at the Googleplex. High speed availability from anywhere."


 9:18 pm on Aug 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

If I were Google I would own Fiber to allow for the transfer of "Stuff" anywhere at light-speed, in other words sort of like an eMule/file-share proggie on Crack

If it were monitored and had lots of paid content (Something they could sell) then ummm I think this may be huge... not to mention that it could be aligned with Wi-Fi worldwide as well.

Sort of like everyone having their own IP and connected everywhere together all at the same time, hmmmmm?

Is that a good though everyone or do you all think I am off base here?



 11:28 pm on Aug 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

A distributed operating system, with the core components on google servers and the client machines acting as dumb terminals all connected via the fastest communication links money can buy. All 100% Free of course...


 11:43 pm on Aug 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Maybe they will start selling mp3s like everyone else these days!


 12:52 am on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well, for starters it became obvious that their idiotic web accellerator ran out of bandwidth real quick, but unless they are serious about that silly product this couldn't be just for that.

Maybe they're planning a network of data centers to serve up search and adsense at lightning speeds from any location?


 1:37 am on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

I saw this the other day and when i saw this thread i just thought of it [broom.org...]


 2:25 am on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

Weren't there rumours that Google was going to setup a free wi-fi network? Wouldn't the dark fiber come in handy for something like that?


 4:42 am on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

my suspicions go with wifi as well. That and better data center distribution. Things are growing fast and getting bigger. That 'dark' fiber of 2000 won't be dark much longer as PVR's and VOIP becomes part of the average home.


 1:30 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think this has to do with the Blackberry project underway and the connection it has to browser screen resolution detection, as I mentioned in another thread. Google is getting ready for the next wave, very ground floor of them, if you ask me... ahead of the pack. Who is designing for palm? Let me be the first at WW to raise my hand.

Google is going mobile, it is not too hard to figure out where all this is going. Connect the dots.


 5:02 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

Who is designing for palm?

With small decent laptops about to break the sub $500 mark, I wouldn't bother with palm.

As for fun speculation,

CinemaNow is already offering limited HD movies for download. Maybe Google is going to offer HD Television in the future. If they offered a VOIP solution to go with it, it would be the beginning of the end for cable, satellite, and phone companies. Just imagine, one bill, one wire (or wireless :)) and almost all your needs satisfied. If they could just add some electricity and water to the wire we would be set.


 5:06 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

Here's a question that I've wondered about for a while: What would be the advantage of Google serving up TV programming? How would they make money? Serve up commercials?

It seems Google's bread and butter is advertising via the WWW. Providing a buttload of free wireless, and a GBrowser would make the most sense to me. They can force users to only surf with GBrowser, and serve up ads all over the place. There's a million and one tangents that can be spawned from that.

I just don't see the TV programming/movie idea happening any time soon... makes no sense.


 5:41 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

I just don't see the TV programming/movie idea happening any time soon... makes no sense.

Imagine watching a commercial for a product, but instead of having to dial a 1-800 number you just click on the commercial and it takes you to their website.

How about a channel showing a 30-second commercial for a movie. The movie looks interesting, the user can click on the commercial and watch a 3 minute preview for the same movie.

Maybe someone is watching [insert pop tv show] and likes the outfit that one of the stars is wearing, they click on the outfit and it takes them to a website where they can buy that outfit.

How about a sports channel that only covers news on the teams you like, or a news channel that only reports tech and local news.

Streaming TV over the internet. The kind of streaming TV where the commercials can't be blocked out like on tivo.

Basicly, interactive tv and movies, or in web terms, dynamic vs static television. I think it's a huge market and whoever taps into it first is going to make a killing. Every TV show and movie has a website, it's just a matter of time before the two worlds combine.


 7:38 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

>If they could just add some electricity and water to the wire we would be set.

Only thing missing would be food.


 8:04 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

"With small decent laptops about to break the sub $500 mark"

From a laptop user's point of view, laptops suck if you are very active, and very busy. You need palm in the active business community. I can't look at the incoming email on my laptop in an elevator, at the bus stop when I am standing, on a train when I am standing, in line at the DMV, when I am standing...or millions of other things I do each year, standing, up to 3-4 hours per day. Those 3-4 hours a day are just lost time. Time is money to me and millions others. That is why we NEED palm. It is not a toy to us.

When I hear or read a potential client tell me, "wow, that was quick service, you responded two minutes after I sent the email, let's do business.", it proves that savy business owners need to be connected, all their waking hours. It is the ONLY way to compete in this ever growing emarket. I snag a deal, while my competitor is stuck in line at the airport. I could be standing in line right next to him, closing the deal I snagged from him.

You can't do that with a laptop. Laptops were designed to make you portable. For use as portable, they are a nightmare. They don't work well in cars, buses, trains, subways, or airplanes. They are not private, and can easily be seen by those looking over your shoulder, and hard to hide from wandering eyes. Laptops are hard on the eyes and wrists when used for long hours in as a desktop. You pretty much need a wireless keyboard to use them as a desktop, to avoid wrist pain when you are keyboarding for 8+ hours a day. Typing on your lap for hours at a time, in between fuel ups on the highway, every 3 hours or so, is very difficult, unless you are in a van, at a table, in the back of the vehicle. Front seat... very hard. Forget about holding the thing up in the air while you are in line, unless you have some really strong arms. I have never known a computer nerd to have really strong arms, so scratch that for the masses.

Palm, is meant for short term portable. It works very well for crucial business contacts. Is excellent when you are stuck in traffic jams, and even better when you are in the long lines at the airport. If you are waiting 30 minutes at the school bus stop, you can send emails to dozens of friends, and so much more.

Why are laptops getting cheap? Why did beta video recorders become cheaper than VHS? They were on their way out. When new technology makes old technology less desirable, old technology always gets cheaper. Never buy on the down price, you are buying into short term obsolete.


 8:29 pm on Aug 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

you can send emails to dozens of friends

I don't live in the big big city and so can't relate to waiting anywhere to do anything. Maybe the palms have a use in a big city, but most of the things your talking about can already be done on a cellphone and cellphones continue to do more and more and get cheaper and cheaper. Laptops keep getting faster, smaller and cheaper. I think the palm is going to get crushed in the middle. The keyboards on laptops may be a pain in the butt, but I think if I had to write a few paragraphs i'm going to blow away the palm anyday.

Besides, once they figure out how to get the food through the wire, we won't be going outside our houses anymore anyway.


 9:25 am on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google is quite dynamic and anything could be real. Found this article [dreamscat.com] which made me think that Google might be doing something like the Bigboy thingy.


 7:09 pm on Aug 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Remember Google's mission "To organise the world's information". This includes the offline world. I suspect Google is building a private network to connect supply chains across the US.

Using their search technology they can help businesses keep track of inventory and push it to consumers who need it.


 11:10 pm on Sep 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

If I had unlimited resources (bandwidth/money) I would create a virtual planet, GPlanet, if you will:

Search on Google for a product or service. Review some textual results then when satisfied click on "Visit GPlanet Storefront".

This would be a 3D, geographically accurate representation of the real world storefront, including the "neighbors" of the stores. Which are often competitors, and that I could also click on and go inside if I wished.

Now your thinking; what about services and business that are typically geographically dispersed, or don't have a real world storefront?

Well, that's where I would create virtual malls in the geographical region of the businesses. I would generate the "mall" vendor population based on an algo that targeted shopping trends encountered when starting with the users initial product or service selection. i.e. Looking for "milk", always go for cookies after.

If you don't have a real world store front, I could set you up with some advertisers that would gladly sponser you so that you could have a presence in GPlanet.

I have actually been working with feature based parametric modelling for 10 years now and the above is more than possible with todays technology. The problem is the bandwidth. Google's move combined with WiFI would do it. Especially if you are constantly updating your GPlanet (building skins, product skins) with your Google Desktop plugin.

Google like clean and simple, for thier own business model. You can't change that users and companies want an aesthetically pleasing experience. "simple is retro cool", but that is only because of the bandwidth limitations.

Think about how many billions of dollars are spent in the real world making sure things look a certian way, so as to close the deal.

This may not appeal to all of us right now. But my kids love all this flash interactivity.

My daughter is sitting beside me right now on her laptop "flashing" away. She is 7.



 1:41 pm on Sep 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

I hope this is true ...if this works its GOD

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