| 6:10 pm on Feb 3, 2004 (gmt 0)|
The turf wars are just starting to heat up even thought this move was foreseeable years ago. The players are sorting out which model will dominate. Verizon - online - has always been a viable model for a serious threat to Google. BIG threat. Making the threat more real, as Google moves to IPO, makes sense. Any downward pressure on the cash Google can raise helps the other players reduce the harm Google can do with an IPO warchest. Smaller warchest. Reduced threat. Look for more announcements.
The sums of money available to fund this war for the search turf are mind boggling. There's still room as the world sorts out the winning search-advertising-promotion-sales lead model for little guys with the slingshots to deliver a headache blow to the giants. There's so much money at stake that any number of small players with unique models are likely to walk away from the battlefield with booty - without ever raising a sword.
See you in Florida.
| 6:16 pm on Feb 3, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I don't understand why Verizon keeps flip flopping on its decision to go with PPC or pay per click.
I few months ago I had an ad sales rep whose arm I had to twist on a daily basis to get me in on a CPC campaign with them only to eventually get kicked my sites kicked off because they were "no longer doing PPC campaigns"...
Now they have a press release saying they are? Ugh.
| 6:37 pm on Feb 3, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Given hobbnet's post and the tone of their press release, it sounds like Verizon's heart isn't into PPC.
Look for a really crappy PPC program.
| 6:43 pm on Feb 3, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I think this is a move to try to counter AOLs IYP. AOL has really been pushing their IYP lately, and it's cut into our Verizon refferals.
I talked to our Verizon rep the other day, and he hinted that there was something new coming out that we might want to look into for expanding our IYP marketing. He did assure me that our national and state listings would still be tops over any new listings, but he wasn't sure what would happen to those who paid yearly listing fees for a region or city (I think this is where the PPC will come into play - why charge $25-50/year if they think they can make more on PPC).
I think this could be a mistake as small companies don't want to manage accounts, they want to pay one flat rate per year. As a PPC specialist company, I see new markets opening up for dealing with local businesses.
Verizon does seem to understand the PPC market more than the other IYPs as it advertises for some very niche and locally driven KWs on a lot of PPCs.
This is just more proof that everyone thinks the money this year will be in the local search market.
[edited by: eWhisper at 6:46 pm (utc) on Feb. 3, 2004]
| 6:45 pm on Feb 3, 2004 (gmt 0)|
My guess is that Verizon was hesitant to fully embrace ppc because it meant a lower bottom line for them. From my experience you spend far less on local cpc listings than you do for a online yellow page listing. (and Verizon would have all the click data to base decisions on) I think with Google and Overture both taking local search seriously, Verizon had no choice but to embrace the cpc business model. I guess we'll see on March 1st how serious Verizon is about local PPC.
| 7:04 pm on Feb 3, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|I don't understand why Verizon keeps flip flopping on its decision to go with PPC or pay per click. |
I think it was a build/buy decision that they just finalized two months ago.
| 8:42 pm on Feb 3, 2004 (gmt 0)|
This is way overdue in my opinion.
It's going to be interesting to see what the newspapers do with this. Some publishers hate the YP, others couldn't care less. But, a lot of newspapers "own" the local traffic, for whatever that's worth. Which is not much.
Atlanta, for example, has a really good web site and the promote the heck out of it in their paper. And they get about 2 million pageviews a month. They LOVE the yellow pages--they have it on every page of the web site. I think they're paid between 6 and 8 cents per click.
Now, is Atlanta (and everyone else) going to turn over any and all opportunities for local contextual ads to YP? A year ago, I'd said no way, but look what G and O were able to do.
All in all, this is going to make for a better web experience for users. And I hope it helps the local news web sites--they need some $.
| 8:47 pm on Feb 3, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|My guess is that Verizon was hesitant to fully embrace ppc because it meant a lower bottom line for them. From my experience you spend far less on local cpc listings than you do for a online yellow page listing. (and Verizon would have all the click data to base decisions on) I think with Google and Overture both taking local search seriously, Verizon had no choice but to embrace the cpc business model. I guess we'll see on March 1st how serious Verizon is about local PPC. |
Bingo. Yes, the traditional publishers hate PPC. Tough.
| 9:23 pm on Feb 3, 2004 (gmt 0)|
>traditional publishers hate PPC
Not everyone wants the risk and time that PPC requires.
Itīs better to pay attention to whatīs happening with your listings, and not everyone have time to do that.
| 1:57 pm on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Saw a recent article that said FindWhat had entered an agreement with Verizon. Does anyone know yet if the Verizon PPC will be included with a FindWhat account, or are SuperPages just borrowing the technology so they can have a completely unique ad database?
| 2:14 pm on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I think FindWhat has just licensed its technology to Verizon at this point.
| 3:16 pm on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I think justageek is right. From reading the press release and the news reports, Superpages is going to be setting up their own stable of ads.
Webmasters need watch this. If you have a widget site you should be able to offer your readers local sources of widgets as well as what Google is offering. Yes, Google is already into geo-targeting, as is Overture.
But Superpages is in 48 states and has a sales forces which makes a reported 3000 calls a day to local ad buyers. Say what you will, but this is a threat to Google's concept of making $ off of the guy selling bird diapers. It's a easy and quick just to search from local to national and beyond.
Superpages' point about the plumber working out of his van with a cell phone is legit. Is that business going to go to Google? Google has a lot of work to do to make that happen. The YP are better positioned in this market.
It's interesting to see the IYP come up with different approaches. This Jan 13, 04 article has Switchboard teaming with Shopping.com, which makes a lot of sense.
Again, Switchboard, like Superpages, will obviously be looking for traffic.
I wonder if Quigo's AdSonar is going to be able to link into these YP searches? Their web site says, AdSonar "Enables ads to be served from multiple sources, including the publishers' own listings."
Ha. Maybe using AdSonar each publisher could, if they wanted, become a tiny InfoSpace, with a page of ads from their own list of keywords (which would reduce griping about wrong context) from Google, Overture, Shopping.com, the YP and any other ads they want to sell themselves.
| 3:59 pm on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|I wonder if Quigo's AdSonar is going to be able to link into these YP searches? |
I don't know if AdSonar will do this but I do know that the FindWhat contextual ad program is capable of doing this already. I would think if anyone was going to do it it would be FindWhat themselves given the relationship with Verizon.
| 6:36 pm on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I went looking for FindWhat's contextual ad program and couldn't find it. This is news to me. Got a link?
| 7:08 pm on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)|
They just started it. They are in an agreement to use another groups system that's been around for a few years and are implementing it slowly. You just have to call or email them and ask to use it.
| 9:32 pm on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|They just started it. They are in an agreement to use another groups system that's been around for a few years and are implementing it slowly. You just have to call or email them and ask to use it.-JAG |
You've lost me. What system?
And, anyway, why would a webmaster sign up for a contextual program with FindWhat over Google or Overture, unless you can link in your own directory or YP with it? I doubt Findwhat outbid G or or O. (Google offered us AdSense on sites that get less than 5,000 uniques a month. Now, it would have some ads on it and it ranks high on some searches--just not many people search on it.)
This is what's interesting to us in regards to what the YP are doing. These web sites are for suburban communities, with news and gossip. It would be nice to get some income--and offer the service--of the YP results in context to our editorial.
| 9:52 pm on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Contextual advertising system.
|And, anyway, why would a webmaster sign up for a contextual program with FindWhat over Google or Overture, |
Don't know. I guess the same ones who would sign up for Quigo or Kanoodle or TCLA or any of the other ones. To try something different maybe? I don't think there is a minimum like the search requirements.
I doubt that FindWhat could offer a higher cpc but if anyone can offer a higher cpm through a better system than why not? People do get stuck on cpc rather than what really counts though since it's the only thing most people talk about.
I mentioned FindWhat because if they have a relationship with Verizon and a contextual advertising system in place then it would make sense for them to offer it. I don't know if they will but I think it would be good. You mentioned Quigo as maybe doing it so it got me thinking why wouldn't FindWhat just do it and not use a middleman.
| 10:22 pm on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I applied for Quigo but haven't heard anything yet. I haven't tried Kanoodle because they don't have enough categories that cover my topics. I used AdSense until the results started going the same route as their SERPS. I have been testing with TCLA and as JAG pointed out, the cpc is hard to match when it comes to Google or Overture but with all the tools and features with the TCLA products I get a much higher cpm than with AdSense and at the end of the day that's what counts for me. If FindWhat can do the same with Verizon results then I'll give them a try also
| 3:43 am on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)|
This is what is so interesting about the Quigo, Kontera, Teragram, Clickability, Richlink, nStein or TCLA systems.
Publishers, if they had their own contextual system to adapt or modify, could tune it to their web site. They could use it to sell access to their archive, YP, financial data, health information, catalogs such as Shopping.com or Amazon--and search.
These moves by the YP sites convince me that contextual matching belongs in the hands of the publishers. Isn't providing context what publishers do?
This is why I'm so keen on Quigo's new approach with its AdSonar system--if I understand it. And from what I hear, AdSonar is going to be inexpensive, too.
| 4:38 pm on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I agree with some more control going to the publisher. I asked TCLA about who all is going to be in their system and while they didn't give me specifics they said they have the interest of quite a few folks, with reference to the ones mentioned here, and should have more than any other independent company like Google or Overture. It's a win - win because the more suppliers that feed their products the better it will be for all of us. The way I understood it from them is the cost for suppliers is much less than if they did their own contextual program. If I can present just about anything to my users the more I should make and my testing so far has shown that to be true but I guess it depends on industry.
I'm not sure that having my own system would do me any good. I don't want the headache of administering it and I'm not sure how advertisers would feel about having to monitor many ppc campaigns so I think if AdSonar has this as an option I wouldn't use it. Especially if I had to pay no matter how little the amount. I'd rather let someone like TCLA handle it and just give me all the options for displaying the ads like they do now.
| 5:12 pm on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)|
More YP news:
From the article:
|Internet yellow pages site Switchboard.com debuted new search technology that helps users narrow their searches for local information and overhauled its site to look more like Google. |
Palmerow said that search engines' reliance on sorting through unstructured data -- sites taken from the Web, not directories -- gives customers too much extraneous information, forcing them to figure out on their own what is relevant.
"Everyone else is doing a keyword match, forcing people to disambiguate those search results themselves," he said.
Sterling said search engines realize the sales challenge and likely would need to partner with telecom companies or even newspapers that have established sales forces.
"At the small-business level, a lot of the success of yellow pages is that they have a sales force and they can push it to the advertiser," he said. "There's tremendous inertia at the local level."
Can your web site send these YP guys traffic? Maybe you should start asking for users' zip code, eh?
| 7:11 pm on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I guess if they would allow me to I could. I'll have to ask
| 5:12 pm on Feb 16, 2004 (gmt 0)|
More on local search efforts at Google and Overture, and the IYP, from the Feb 16, 04 New York Times:
|Starting March 1, users of SuperPages will be able to perform general searches by typing in any keyword or phrase, rather than being limited to the precise business categories created by SuperPages. |
... SuperPages.com, the company will also offer to let advertisers bid for placement and pay only for the ads that are clicked on. ... The SuperPages changes follow similar upgrades at Switchboard, an Internet Yellow Pages company, that earlier this month abandoned the category search in favor of keyword search. SBC's SmartPages.com site will follow suit in coming months, according to company executives.
| 9:49 pm on Feb 16, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Does anyone know how Superpages is going to handle refunds for those who already have ads that are paid up for another several months?
Talked to the Verizon rep today, and they have no idea what the superpages people are going todo as far as existing accounts.
Another case where the offline vs online reps have little communication.