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Being Squeezed Out.
The big boys are squeezing me out of Adwords....
merlin23

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 10:46 pm on May 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi ,

I am a small guy, a very small guy in my market place...In fact I am the smallest player using Google Adwords in my sector.

I currently spend around 600 USD per month on Adwords campaigns...this generates 10,000 USD of business...

The problem I am now facing - is that these kind of figures have been sustainable for a year....(compared to others are these kind of returns the expected norm - I make a profit and I guess thats what counts - but am curious anyway...)

However, my major multi-million pound competitiors, large organisations.....Are trying to squeeze me out.....in a kinda bidding war......cant prove this of course...buts its obvious when it happens to you - you just kinda know!

Is there some kind of strategy I can adopt to counteract this? Or some kinda Adwords course which will eqip me and make me a better Adwords marketer......because if the cost per click rises much more - I will be pushed out.....

All suggestions, gratefully received....thanks......

 

dave741

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 11:05 pm on May 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

Are you really sure that some multi-million pound company vaste its time in bidding war with some 10 000 company?

merlin23

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 11:30 pm on May 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

LOL

Since when has 10k a month been a waste of time....

Without mentioning specifics its difficult to get my point across I suppose....so dumb answers like yours are expected....smiley...

Lets say, I dont sell widgets, I sell a service in a particular location....and I know that I have taken 30% of the business from the majors in this location - and can potentially double this with more effort (and they know it).....I have only 1 location, whereas they have hundreds... this is where the numbers come in.....

But it is only practical for me to have the one location - and they are certainly trying to squeeze me out of Adwords....or at least from the first half dozen Ads.....

Thanks anyway, for taking the time to answer...

LifeinAsia

WebmasterWorld Administrator lifeinasia us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 11:47 pm on May 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

Since you've taken such a big chunk of business from them, are you actually so shocked that they're fighting back? What did you expect them to do?

I do have to question your math, though... You say you've taken 30% of their business, which you say is about $10,000/month. That works out to about $33K/month in total business in your market place. That's hardly enough to sustain multi-million pound companies!

merlin23

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 11:56 pm on May 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

Good Grief...dont know why I bothered to ask the damn question.....lol
....smile....

They have literally hundreds of locations....so thereforehundreds of 33Ks.....and more(coz some of their locations are worth much more than 33k)...

PLEASE TRUST ME....

They would operate in MY LOCATION for break even...just for presence sake......

Can some one please answer my original question?

TypicalSurfer

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 12:02 am on May 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

merlin23

is this one co. running multiple sites or multiple companies?

are you still profitable?

nevermind, re-read the first post, you have other competitors in a bidding war, maybe they are competing against each other and you are collateral damage.

but, just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :)

Seriously, as long as you have decent ROI, hang in there but you can't lose money on every sale and hope to make it up in volume unless there is a repeat/relationship revenue opportunity after the initial sale as this is where you might be able to win with the biggies, better, more personalized service.

[edited by: TypicalSurfer at 12:13 am (utc) on May 17, 2006]

arran

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 12:11 am on May 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi merlin23,

- Increase your CTR by writing better ads, using dynamic keyword insertion, increasing the 'quality score' of your landing pages, overbidding for a while and using lots of negative keywords.
- Re-evaluate your keyword research. Generate hundreds of new keyword combinations - go for longtail phrases.
- Set up different bids for search / content network.
- CPM target scraper sites in your niche. ;)
- Use Overture.
- Shift some of your advertising budget to buying advertising space on related sites.
- Spend more time on SEO for organic results.
- With your current ROI, I would think about replicating your success. Build a similar site, get another adwords account and go for it...

arran.

merlin23

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 1:22 am on May 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

Great - thans Aran and Typical...some help at last...lol

Typical
........

Sure, there will be a small element of them outbidding each other....but! Without being paranoid...there are clear indications that they do resent me being there....for instance....

They have , lets say 800 locations (and I only have 1)...they are not aggresive in the other 799....in addition to this....they are using their(1 in particular)organic search power, ie: massive websites , high PR (and good content too - like mine).....etc to outdo me there also...They are optimising their pages in my location...which backs this up....

There is not any repeat business opportunity(at least for 1 year......usually much longer , if at all) - however, very strong business in reccomends....

Aran
.....
Thanks - some great ideas there for me, which I will think on and attempt to implement...

I know I can out do and better their Ad copy.....because I am already doing that.....but it worries me , regarding the spiralling bid (currently manageable)...I already do Overture....and get around 2000 USD per month for a budget of 100 USD...

Replication is possible - but I dont want to take my eye of this ball for the moment.....lol....besides , they wouldnt be so profitable.....

Thanks again....

sem4u

WebmasterWorld Senior Member sem4u us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 7:45 am on May 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

As well as using Yahoo! PPC I would try some money on MSN as see how that goes as well.

Green_Grass

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 8:36 am on May 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

One strategy I can see is to use the accelerated ad delivery system..

I am sure the competitors donot have unlimited budget for a day.. Avoid advertising during the first half of the day and then use the accelerated ad delivery in the second half..

Who knows , you might find better 'pricing'..

Just a thought ..

Jack_Hughes

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 9:50 am on May 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

seems to me that you don't have a problem whilst you are in positive ROI territory. the problem will come when the bidding goes into negative ROI territory.

you need to figure out how to thrive without adwords, because sooner or later adwords isn't going to work for you.

merlin23

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 12:12 pm on May 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

Thanks Semi, Green and Jack...

Some good tips for me there....thank you.....

Ironic really....I gave up a very high paying career/job....to take it easy.....set-up an internet business, as an interest, as it were.....

Now its bloody taken over.....and I havent got the time to do the things that I gave up my job for - in fact even less time...lol

pete532

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 1:10 pm on May 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

You think YOU have it tough?

Try competing with Google itself.

On most of my KWs, they're advertising their own FREE software.

And guess which position their ads are in?

Can you say "top left"?

Pete

Quantam Goose

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 2:53 pm on May 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

Soory if this is off topic, but, what the hell is dynamic kwd insertion?

arran

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 3:15 pm on May 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi QG - check out this thread [webmasterworld.com]

arran.

vincevincevince

WebmasterWorld Senior Member vincevincevince us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 4:11 am on May 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

Can you insulate yourself against the damage by profiting from their adwords via adsense? An info-site on your topic will do better as the price rises, allowing you to keep paying the Adwords price. Black-list yourself from your info-site and you're taking money from the competition to compete against themselves.

You claim to be out of the top dozen ads - that means that there must be at least a dozen competitors (to fill the spaces above you) and all of them must be involved in bid-price escalation. If you find that in fact some are the same competitor multiple times you can report that to Google and they will cut them down to only one ad per impression.

It may be time to optimise your ad-copy a bit more and get more of the keywords on your landing page - that will mean you can get cheaper clicks without a loss of ranking.

OddDog

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 2:04 pm on May 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi,

i think the best single piece of advice given has been improve ad copy.

You mention that oyu have a single location. I interprete this to mean that geografical location is important in your niche. If this is so, act even more locally than your competicion. Think local associaitions (chambers of commerce or whatever you niche actually is :) ).

Optimize you content for that geo targetting.

Get busy on the organic side.

Moosetick

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 2:45 pm on May 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

They have , lets say 800 locations

Wow! Its got to be hard to compete with Starbucks! :)

jtara

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jtara us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 9:35 pm on May 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

They have literally hundreds of locations....so thereforehundreds of 33Ks.....and more(coz some of their locations are worth much more than 33k)...

PLEASE TRUST ME....

They would operate in MY LOCATION for break even...just for presence sake......

So, you operate a coffee house? ;)

(LOL, looks like somebody beat me to it... Hadn't seen the immediately-previous post!)

merlin23

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 8177 posted 10:03 pm on May 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

Vince

That adsense thing is a cute idea – I was considering an information site, but hadn’t considered the adwords component…

Also, I have already reported one of them to Google adwords, because they had multiple ads……..with url redirects……..however, what their doing now….is breathing new life into old domains…….it is hard to prove they are the same organization though…….but I know that they are … They have made some errors with their code…for instance , the payment section redirects to the main domain…..and site search, suggests you look for your search term in the main domain……

Sorry…rushing at the mo….hope I am making sense……

OddDog
Sure – Am on this…case

Mosse and Tara – sure its humour…but – no, not coffee.....lol

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