homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.166.228.100
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member
Visit PubCon.com
Home / Forums Index / Google / Google AdWords
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: buckworks & eWhisper & skibum

Google AdWords Forum

This 208 message thread spans 7 pages: < < 208 ( 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 > >     
Adwords Quality Score now includes rating of Landing Page
"looks at the content and layout of the pages linked from your ads"
whoisgregg




msg:1113934
 11:16 pm on Dec 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

From Inside Adwords [adwords.blogspot.com]:
In August, we introduced the Quality Score along with the launch of quality-based minimum bids, letting you know that we evaluate many factors, such as your ad text and clickthrough rate (CTR) to determine the minimum bid for your keyword. Today, we started incorporating a new factor into the Quality Score -- the landing page -- which will look at the content and layout of the pages linked from your ads.

Guidelines for landing pages [adwords.google.com]

 

Richard Overvold




msg:1114024
 7:38 pm on Dec 10, 2005 (gmt 0)


Very True ,there is money to be made if you have the capital and know how to exploit the inefficiencies to your favour...

Why do I sense a little bitterness in this? If you have the industry, the keywords, good ad, payments on-time, you shouldn't have to worry, am I right? I work in 9 different industries, and they are all a product of a good industry, not exploiting.

jtara




msg:1114025
 7:50 pm on Dec 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I would switch a few landing pages today but I don't want to lose $5K in income while G takes the weekend off and won't get to reactivating the ads until Tuesday.

Actually, the system seems to be on "autopilot" this weekend.

I've created ads and seen then show immediately, with great volume.

I just went in and changed the display URL on an ad, something I normally would do with much trepidition on an ad that is working. It showed right away.

But, then, I'm bidding on some very popular keywords (movie released this weekend), which is not something that I normally do. The ads may well not be running on the search network. I normally don't see decent impressions until my ads are showing on search network.

This just might be the weekend to do account housekeeping and move some stuff around and get it organized. :)

Important: YMMV, don't blame me! :)

(Your Mileage May Vary)

Experiment on something unimportant first.

esllou




msg:1114026
 8:04 pm on Dec 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I agree. As I said, I think it's a good move. But I was also pointing out that the very reason why G has so much house cleaning to do is that THEY let the trash in in the first place.

so I say go G! :-)

Richard Overvold




msg:1114027
 8:19 pm on Dec 10, 2005 (gmt 0)


I agree. As I said, I think it's a good move. But I was also pointing out that the very reason why G has so much house cleaning to do is that THEY let the trash in in the first place.

so I say go G! :-)

Zactly... If you're not trash that may be removed from this little change, you have nothing to worry about. :)

gopi




msg:1114028
 9:08 pm on Dec 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> not exploiting

Richard ,when i said 'exploiting' i didnt meant it in a wrong way

jim2003




msg:1114029
 9:13 pm on Dec 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Marcia,

I think you are missing a significant point. The keywords being deactivated by the new algorithm are being made "inactive for SEARCH".

It doesn't do anything to disable them for the adsense content network.

I am speculating, but I am guessing the 90% of the interest of the posters in the adwords forum is related to the search product. There is very little interest in the content network from most of the posters to this forum.

Richard Overvold




msg:1114030
 9:46 pm on Dec 10, 2005 (gmt 0)


Richard ,when i said 'exploiting' i didnt meant it in a wrong way

Ah, okay, I thought you were saying that the only way to get ahead is to cheat. No worries then. :)


Marcia,
I think you are missing a significant point. The keywords being deactivated by the new algorithm are being made "inactive for SEARCH".

It doesn't do anything to disable them for the adsense content network.

I am speculating, but I am guessing the 90% of the interest of the posters in the adwords forum is related to the search product. There is very little interest in the content network from most of the posters to this forum.

Don't forget that when you remove the check from "Search Network", you also remove ads from AOL, Ask Jeeves, etc.... [edit]so your ads only show on Google[/edit]

But I don't think many people care for the Content Network at all. And if you do, I want to know what you're looking at. :)

jtara




msg:1114031
 10:04 pm on Dec 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

But I don't think many people care for the Content Network at all.

In my experience, content network = higher CPC, lower CTR, lower conversion, delays before being display.

Why bother?

jim2003




msg:1114032
 10:15 pm on Dec 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

More questions about this change. When an advertisers has several ads in an adgroup with different landing pages, how does the robot score each page? Will automatic delivery optimaztion take the landing page score into account? Will an ad become inactive when split testing a new ad for a page the robot dislikes or will automatic delivery optimization ignore the new page the robot hates?

AWA, is there a way that Google can tell us tell us what the invididual components of the qualtiy are. For example if 100, where the best possible score could Google tell us if we are -10 for ad text, -12 for CTR and -21 for landing page score giving us a total score of 57.

Google wouldn't have to tell us how they determine the score, so the algorithm would remain confidential, but with all of these factors coming at us now, its really difficult to know whether or not we should work on the landing pages or the ad copy or both. My fear now is that when a keyword becomes inactive I try to improve it by modifying one factor or another, and end up hurting "relevence" (as seen by the algorithm and its robot) further because I am working on the wrong problem.

DynamicNiches




msg:1114033
 12:47 am on Dec 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Since I changed my landing pages, to hopefully get back in Google, will it start my content AVG. Position all over again?

I had a very good average position via content results, and was wondering since I changed my landing page and ad a little, if it will effect my AVG positon when google approves my ad for content results again, or will they make me have to work my way all the way back up there again?

jtara




msg:1114034
 6:36 am on Dec 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Since I changed my landing pages, to hopefully get back in Google, will it start my content AVG. Position all over again?

My understanding is that Google keeps track of your performance for each keyword, and your performance for each ad, seperately.

The keyword history is "forever". That is, when you delete a keyword, you really don't delete it. Bring it back, and it still has your performance stats attached.

I think the ad history is toast when you delete or modify the ad.

So, at least you have the good (or bad) karma of your historical keyword performance.

This is at least what I understand from the latest attempt of a Google rep to straighten me out. :)

I'd encourage people to contact Google for clarification on things they don't understand, even if you've had a bad experience in the past. I've found them really helpful and patient. On one occasion I got a rep with a bad attitude. But only once.

eyeinthesky




msg:1114035
 10:42 am on Dec 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

My question for AWA is will those hit by this new rule be able to recover by changing the landing page?

How often does the robot visit - is it just once or on a continual basis?

My ads seem to be hit because I have "no robots" tag on my landing pages.

AWA, please help :)

sailorjwd




msg:1114036
 12:21 pm on Dec 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

jtara,

Wonderful. thanks for the tip. Now a couple of my adgroups are turned off till Monday or Tuesday.

Note to self: Don't change landing pages on the weekend! And, don't read Jtara posts.

jtara




msg:1114037
 8:16 pm on Dec 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Wonderful. thanks for the tip. Now a couple of my adgroups are turned off till Monday or Tuesday.

Experiment on something unimportant first

Which would be a prudent way to proceed, even if I hadn't warned you.

sailorjwd




msg:1114038
 1:27 am on Dec 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Its ok.. only killed 3 out of 100 ad groups. I'll call my rep in the morning and tell her I'm changing the rest of them and she'll activate them in a moment.

Problem is in general I only have the weekends to make these changes so it is a pain.

jtara




msg:1114039
 5:51 am on Dec 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Problem is in general I only have the weekends to make these changes so it is a pain.

I agree. It certainly is a pain not to be able to get campaigns running on the weekend.

You make a good point - if you make a big update, and let Google know, they can accelerate your ad review.

I did put a new ad group up on Saturday morning, it began running almost immediately, and got 35,000 impressions on Saturday. (I shut it off Sunday morning, because it was a stinker on conversions...)

Maybe Google sent people in on Saturday morning to keep things running smoothly for the holidays, and by the time you made your changes, they'd gone home?

Obviously, there are a bunch of variables, many sitting in black boxes never to be explained. I am now half-convinced, for example, that your total spend on your account has something to do with how many impressions you will get. (That is, the spend from the time you opened the account.)

I spent about 3X my normal spend on Saturday. Sunday morning, I shut off the stinker campaign, and then I got a big increase in traffic on the other campaigns the rest of the day. Like double what I expected.

I've never gotten an explanation about exactly what about "account history" is taken into account for quality score. I will ask, and see if it's something they talk about. Looks to me like it may include longevity and total billing, not just performance measures.

ipohopper




msg:1114040
 8:03 am on Dec 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Great! Now over 98% of my keywords are Inactive for Search! This is totally ridiculous! I have spent over $600K on Adwords this year. My pages are extremely relevant to the keywords or I would not be able to spend that kind of money.

Anyone else seeing majority of their keywords set to Inactive? Someone please tell me this is a glitch.

iPo

EarWig




msg:1114041
 10:42 am on Dec 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have a client who has been at No1 for their adwords campaign for over 18 months. They are a very very small business and their web site is ONLY configured for their product. (about 15 pages)
Everything about their site is relevant to their product and only 3 key phrases are configured for adwords.
The site could not be more relevant to their product.

They have been no 1 for 18 months for England and Wales searches as their products are only vailable in these geo locations

TODAY - GONE completely for Adwords

I wonder how many other advertisers are finding themselves in the same position now they are returning to work after the weekend!

EW

DynamicNiches




msg:1114042
 4:11 pm on Dec 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Anyone else seeing majority of their keywords set to Inactive"

Yes, Exept it happened Thursday night, and then the rest went inactive early Saturday.

I am about to give them a phone call to see what excuse they have.

DynamicNiches




msg:1114043
 4:32 pm on Dec 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Just got off the phone with support. The rep said "I see your landing pages ARE relavant to your keywords and ad. I will ask a tech support agent to look over your account, but the system determines whether or not they are active or inactive so I can not tell you why they got set to inactive. You will get an e-mail either later today about what the tech support team has to say."

ipohopper




msg:1114044
 5:59 pm on Dec 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

The main problem with this Quailty Score issue is that it is going to breed Black Hat SEO into Adwords. The Black Hat experts who know how to cloak, redirect, optimize will be the ones with ads shown. All the people who are not proficient in SEO will be left in the dust. The constant fight between Google's Algorithm and SEO professionals will fester on just like the regular search index.

It also makes it very difficult to budget your advertising campaigns. The stability of the paid advertising model is gone. The whole point of PPC is that you can forecast, set aside a budget, calculate your ROI and spend money on resources accordingly. With this system at anytime your keywords will be shut down and you will be left holding a storeroom of widgets you paid for and can't unload as previously forecasted.

iPo

toddb




msg:1114045
 9:58 pm on Dec 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

DynamicNiches or anyone else with this issue. Is this a new inactive or is it caused by the rise in the minimum bid?

wheel




msg:1114046
 11:57 pm on Dec 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Agreed with above posters that this is arrogance on Google's part.

This is easy. I pay money, they display my ads. If I want their opinion on my website, I'll tell them.

Why are people putting up with paying for advertising and ad placement when the publisher when their ad costs are dependent on a formula that's only known to the publisher? What kind of advertiser puts up with someone suggesting that their advertising pricing depends on some sort of vague analysis by the publisher of their marketing material? How bizarre is this?

Google's jumped the shark on this. The only reason they can get away with it, and advertisers put up with it, is because they're the only game in town. The minute that changes, this kind of ridiculous policy will help ensure advertisers leave in droves.

eyeinthesky




msg:1114047
 12:08 am on Dec 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

There are so many unanswered questions that it is not fair to advertisers.

Although the intention is probably good, the implementation looks bad.

Will AWA shed some light on this?

ipohopper




msg:1114048
 12:21 am on Dec 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Just remember for anyone who has working Adwords keywords. At any time the minimum bid can change to $10.00 setting your keyword to inactive.

There is no guarantee that Google's Quality Checker will not deem your landing page as not relevant in the future.

I'm currently participating in the MSN adCenter Pilot Program and things look brighter over there. They have more dynamic keyword capabilities. Their importing of keywords is lightning quick. They also have a cool option where you can specify different Max Bids for Exact Match, Broad Match, Phrase Match. Their minimum bid is $.05. They have also been listening to all the feedback I have provided. They are probably laughing at the current Adwords situation.

Yeah. Where is AWA?

iPo

Richard Overvold




msg:1114049
 12:58 am on Dec 13, 2005 (gmt 0)


The main problem with this Quailty Score issue is that it is going to breed Black Hat SEO into Adwords. The Black Hat experts who know how to cloak, redirect, optimize will be the ones with ads shown. All the people who are not proficient in SEO will be left in the dust. The constant fight between Google's Algorithm and SEO professionals will fester on just like the regular search index.

I disagree with the statement that SEO's who know how to cloak will have the ads shown, and the rest will be left in the dust.

There are plenty of ways for people who do not know SEO to prevail in this new update, and future updates.

eWhisper




msg:1114050
 2:09 am on Dec 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

They also have a cool option where you can specify different Max Bids for Exact Match, Broad Match, Phrase Match

Just an FYI - you can do this on AdWords.

ipohopper




msg:1114051
 2:13 am on Dec 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Just an FYI - you can do this on AdWords.

That's right. I guess the difference is that that it's part of their interface..

AdWordsAdvisor




msg:1114052
 3:58 am on Dec 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi all,

To date, I've have only had time to skim this thread, although I did pass a link on to the right folks late last week - so please know that your comments are already being heard.

A quick scan tells me that quite a few folks think this is a great idea, while more than a few others clearly dislike it intensely. Either way, I'll include a link to entire thread (again) along with verbatim quotes in this week's Advertiser Feedback Report - and I'll represent all viewpoints.

Tomorrow, I'll read the thread more carefully, and see if there is anything I can clear up. To set expectations that I can actually meet, however, I should say now that I will not be able to go into detail regarding the algo itself.

AWA

elsewhen




msg:1114053
 6:15 am on Dec 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

What kind of advertiser puts up with someone suggesting that their advertising pricing depends on some sort of vague analysis by the publisher of their marketing material? How bizarre is this?

in other media, this sort of thing is very common. if you are an advertiser that wants to publish some lame ad in time magazine - they will turn you down. if you have a great ad, but the product makes them look bad, they will also turn you down. its actually a lot more common than you think.

google is trying to preserve its relationship with users - if they deliver poor ads, or the landing pages are worthless, after a while, the user will hold google responsible. google needs to preserve its own image.

the problem is, that since google has a vast number of advertisers, it would be very difficult to have manual reviews and appeals process. therefore, they are trying to solve the problem algorithmically, as they always do.

if you think that human oversight would be better, you might want to think twice. i used to be in the magazine business, and the bizarre decisions of magainze editors were unimaginably perplexing. even though google keeps much of the algo hidden, at least you can experiment and figure it out.

although both the human and algo approaches have their pros/cons - i side with the emphasis on the algo.

EarWig




msg:1114054
 11:51 am on Dec 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

"To set expectations that I can actually meet, however, I should say now that I will not be able to go into detail regarding the algo itself."

So we have confirmation that it is an algo but not properly researched or tested if one of my clients campaign (msg #:108) is anything to go by unless of course it is a regional problem by ISP and beyond their control.

I have a question, is the problem of adword results disappearing UK only or also happening in other countries?

I am in direct contact with Adwords support in the UK at the moment and might/hope/may/may not be able to throw some light on the matter at a later date!

Regards
EW

This 208 message thread spans 7 pages: < < 208 ( 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Google / Google AdWords
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved