| 3:08 pm on Jul 5, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I suggest you check the keyword matching:
| 3:18 pm on Jul 5, 2002 (gmt 0)|
much appreciated torben..
I see it now (I kept looking for check box ..broad match, exact match etc..).. I needed to ad [ ] for exact match..
Ok...lets try again...
| 3:00 pm on Jul 9, 2002 (gmt 0)|
At least Adwords works for you. I have mailed repeated requests to Google support over the last 4-5 months to enable my account (which was shut down for popups last year) - even submitted a new campaign which required changes before it was approved - but STILL is not running.
GG, can you look into this?
| 6:39 pm on Jul 9, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I've tried Google Adwords.
It is hopelessly overpriced; I've watched my competitors continue with it - heaven knows why - but long may they continue.
A friend of mine searched for my site - he didn't even notice my Adword ad to the right of the screen.
20-30p a click might be fine if you're selling high value products with a large profit margin - but imagine selling stuff with an average sale price of £20.
What does appear to affect my sales are the "top-line" ads that people place above the listings - once again for an absurd price.
I think Google have sold out here - they claim not to use ads in the listings - hell, to any normal visitor they are at the top of the listings.
[edited by: NickJAllen at 8:02 pm (utc) on July 9, 2002]
| 7:16 pm on Jul 9, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Well I am done with Google ..they suspended my ad for using the words "Best" and "Largest"
They have lost all sense of reality..its an AD for petes sake..thats what it SHOULD read.
| 7:47 pm on Jul 9, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Must have been a competitor whinning that someone is actually Marketing their site instead of just listing. ;)
Ok ,now some randon thoughts while I'm peeved..;)
Thats fine..When Google goes public, shareholders wont stand for turning down revenues...
Changing terminolgy does NOT make a product better or worse...
once again it's an ADVERTISEMENT for petes sake..
OK,I feel better..
I'm off to give Inktomi my money instead..
| 7:55 pm on Jul 9, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Our reponse to Google Adwords is positive. Perhaps it relates to the key word ro string of key words chosen? We're using specific key words that pertain to our product and we're having decent success. I might also recommend Overture's key word system.
| 7:57 pm on Jul 9, 2002 (gmt 0)|
With Pay Per Click advertising the ones who have sites which target the buyer or subject can make it through. If your site is not making money back from the money spent on the adwords then id take the site offline and redesign it to something that the others are doing to get business.
Ive seen people with p00rly designed sites make more money than my graphically elite pages that seemed so perfect to me. With the right amount of time and research, yes research you can find the words that work for you to translate traffic into cash.
| 8:00 pm on Jul 9, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Yes, you could submit with Inktomi, and then be listed in the incredibly relevant MSN search etc.
But these too run all sorts of sponsored ads at the very top of the list - most people click on these!
Sorry to sound a bit negative - but the really big advertisers now have it all stitched up - and the SEs are all too willing to pay! (including Google)
| 9:28 pm on Jul 9, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Yes, you are correct Nick the Big advertisers have it all stitched up as you say..AND Google lets them use promotional languge in their ads !
Here is my comptetitors ad "The World's Largest P***** and P**** Store! " which by BTW is simply false the company that I am an affilite is the largest..
Will google suspend their ad ? LOLOLO
Right and wrong does not matter ..the message is clear..the one with more money does not have to play by the rules.
INK is horrible also ..but at least you get broad coverage in a bunch of engines..
I just cant bring myself to to do broad email campaigns..opt in even (sure they are) ..it is spam plain and simple..but yet it really is probably the most effective Marketing tool.
In the end it comes down to the "content" theme.. if it's good content word of mouth will carry..problenm is an effect way to do that with "product" sites.
All I know is it's pretty sad when they wont even take your money HAha
but like I said as soon as they go public ..the shareholders wont stand for not taking ANYONES money....thats one thing I do understand completely!
| 11:00 pm on Jul 9, 2002 (gmt 0)|
You guys should have followed the rules and you wouldn't have problems. The great value in ad words select is the big advertisers DON'T have it all sowed up. Popular/relevant ads are rewarded and you have to maintain minimum clicks. You can't just buy your way into the results.
I'm in one of the most competitive fields on the Internet, and my Ad Words select ad gets top billing for bottom price because it is what people are searching for on my [bracketed] term, and the "big boys" can't elbow me out because they can not meet the click percentage.
Google does everything right with Ad Words Select. They don't allow baloney terms like "biggest" and "greatest", and like the search engine itself, good content is rewarded, NOT money.
| 11:23 pm on Jul 9, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I take exception to that steve,
The fact is
A: My main competitors use the SAME promotional lanquage but are not suspended.
2nd .. My ad TOTAL reflects my products
3Rd..You need to only look at the TOP sponsors for nearly ANY product and see it is held by a MOJOR corporation and the FACTs are they do simply BUY their way there..
In FACT they BUY Keywords BID top dollar AND dont even mind losing money on some keywords because they make it up on other keywords..They are willing to take a loss on some keywords simply for market exposure
These are simply the facts..
Baloney is a luncheon meat and I am not going to get dragged into a flame war with you..simply wish you would look at the facts instead of name calling.
| 11:30 pm on Jul 9, 2002 (gmt 0)|
For example Steve..
I have around 40 small targeted product sites..some of my targets are keywords only serched for on goto inventory 1200 times a month.. hardly enough for most to build a web site, pay hosting etc..the market simply is not large enough for the big players..it would be a LOSS for them..
This is PRECISELY why I target those markets..I CAN afford to build a small web site , pay a couple bucks hosting.. prime my keywords etc..and pull in $30-$40 commission per site a month from them..
But you know what.. the big players ..even though it will be a loss for them BUY the sponsor links and ad words.!
They would rather LOSE money than let some else actually make a couple of dollars..
Wouldnt that frustate the H out of you?
| 12:00 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Excuse me? What flame war? I didn't say anything about you, or call you any names and you are completely out of line to say i did.
But now where you say:
"The fact is A: My main competitors use the SAME promotional lanquage but are not suspended."
That sounds like grassy knoll stuff. I've never seen a situation where an ad violates the terms Google lays out. In fact, ad words ads are unable to even go live if they violate the word or punctuation guidelines.
"3Rd..You need to only look at the TOP sponsors for nearly ANY product and see it is held by a MOJOR corporation and the FACTs are they do simply BUY their way there.."
That is simply not true. You must maintain a click rate. You can not buy the top spot. Companies can offer to pay as much as they want, but if another ad performs better, it goes higher. If an *regardless of the offered bid* does not maintain a .5% click rate, it is discontinued. Those are the facts.
These facts allow the playing field to be leveled *somewhat*.
As for somebody taking a loss rather than let you profit, sure that is frustrating, but to whatever degree that happens, it by definition happens less on Google than Overture. If IBM wanted to bid 100 times Amazon's bid for "books" on Overture, it could. If IBM did that on Google, they would not get the clicks and they would disappear. Google thus is nearly infinitely better for on topic sites of all sizes, and especially for specialty sites. It may be that you simply haven't got a product that can be sold profitably via search engine ads in today's marketplace, but that isn't Google's fault.
Sponsor links and ad words are completely different and you shouldn't mix them together.
| 12:32 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
One thing you might want to consider is that the words you are referring to aren't necessarily "BANNED" words. It depends on how they are used, and how the google editor who reads it feels about it. If you say in your ad that you have "the BEST prices" , then Google will probably cancel your ad. If you say in our ad that:
"BEST prices aren't our focus"
"QUALITY is our focus" Then Google would PROBABLY allow it.
So, it's not the word BEST, it's how the Google editor interprets it. Here is another example:
BAD: "Choose from the LARGEST selection of posters in the WORLD"
"Choose from the LARGEST selection of posters
In the first example you are stating that you have the LARGEST selection in the world. Since Google really has no way of verifying this, your ad will probably be canceled. In the second example, it might POSSIBLY slip through if the editor reads it that you are trying to say that you want the customer to choose from the LARGEST selection of posters that XYZposters has. In the second example, XYZposters isn't saying they have the LARGEST collection. They are saying choose from OUR largest collection. How you word things can make a world of difference!
| 12:44 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Another bit of advice would be to go for the less popular keywords. They can be real gold mines.
For example, The top bid on Overture for "Marilyn Monroe Posters" is .50 cents. But if you spell it wrong you can get the #1 spot for "Marylin Monroe Posters" for .06 cents. Sure, there aren't as many people who will spell it wrong, but a lot of people do (especially me). I'm not sure what the current bid is on ADWORDS, but i'm sure there are plenty of GEMS to be found.
One Adwords Select keyword i did check was
you can get this one for .08 cents on Adwords for the #3 position. This will also get you into the top of AOL, Earthlink, etc.
If .06 - .08 cents is too much for you then you better forget the PPC avenue, or maybe try FINDWHAT or AH-HA.
| 12:50 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
here is the Ad they had a problem with.
the largest Poster selections
at the best prices.
Whst wrong with that? because I used the WORD best and largest !
Through my affiliate ..they do offer the LARGEST selection and the BEST prices (generally on the prices.sometimes the competitor sarts discounting a few days before and visa versa).
I am not saying they cure cancer, guranteed to grow you hair etc..thats the kind of crud that I associate with being nonsense ads..
I purchased 1 TARGETED word [Posters] and I ranked 3rd ..which was fine by me considering the top spot belonged to my supplier ! I moved around from 3-5th
I guess I simply change the wording..my point is the ridiculasness of "human intervention" in everday listings..yes, their should be restrictions to cut down on the nonsense listings..but what ever happened to common sense..
I obviousely am offering a a "respectable" product through a respectable vendor and posting a repectable ad, and the ad is relevant to my product......
as far as the grassy knoll..one of my venders competitors ranks near top and always buys the sponsored ad and also uses the word largest....and yo top it off they arent..
I'm just frustated with the lack of common sense I guess..
It's like in a basketball game and the refs are constantly calling nonsense fouls.. let em play is my view..unless it is obviousely out of hand.
have a good evening
| 12:56 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Thanks 4crest..I already do all of that..
I am mostly in front page on all my other poster sites for free.. all the secondary terms like basketball posters etc..
For THEE main term "posters" I decided I would pay for a change and then what I view as a lack of common sense from a google "reviewer" pops up..
Really not that big of a deal ..just the initial frustration ..
I'll probably just change the ad in a few days.. shaking my head the whole time during the re-write ;)
Ok, I'm off to something else..
Thanks all for letting me vent..
Google is still the best..the restrictions can just be a little overbearing at times
| 12:58 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
One last thing.
Make your competitors pay top dollar.
Say for example you are in the #4 position for "Chihuahua Posters" Your bid is .12 cents. You would like to have the #3 position, but his bid is at .66 cents. He is actually only paying .01 cent above your bid (.13) even though his top bid is .66.
I don't let my competitors get away with this. In this case I would bid .65 cents or thereabouts forcing him to pay the full .66 cents per click.
You have to have some extra time on your hands to do this. You have to check back often because a lot of the time your competitor will come right back with a .64 cent bid forcing you to pay the .65 price. This back and forth bidding can go on for a while until you are both back down to lower prices. In some cases, I end up with the #3 bid at a price just a couple cents more than i was originally paying. So don't let a large bid price intimidate you from TRYING to take the next position.
Also, with this method you need to take into account the Click percentage. If their bid is .66 cents and you bid .65, you could actually place above them if your CTR is greater. So you may have to bid .64 or .63. Just play around until you find the perfect price.
While on the subject of CTR%, if you can find ways to increase the CTR of your ad, you may be able to get the same position as your competitor for a much lower price.
Very specialized ads have worked best for me in increasing my CTR.
| 1:20 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
"Chihuahua Posters" ? LOL
Dont suspect I'll be paying for those 36 searchs;)
| 1:24 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Hey, you might want to look at AH-HA.
You can get listed with them in the #1 position for the following terms / prices.
Anna Kournikova Posters - .03
Marily Monroe Posters - .02
Spiderman Posters - .02
Movie Poster - .04
This will get you listed in Altavista on the right side of the page with your Name, Description and a Small Logo. Pretty cheap!
It will also get you listed on Earthlink and a few others. I really like the little LOGO deal. One thing to remember is you don't have to outbid EVERY bidder on AH-HA, Only the ones with a LOGO. If the top 3 bidders don't have a LOGO and you bid in the #4 position WITH a Logo, you will show up #1 on the right side of Altavista since they ONLY take the ones with Logos.
Another thing to consider though is that sometimes companies buy certain keywords on Altavista, so your ad won't show up.
| 1:27 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Yes, i was making a joke...
But, you get my point.
| 1:54 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
the largest Poster selections
at the best prices.
Whst wrong with that? because I used the WORD best and largest!"
It's against the rules, and they shouldn't be expected to check out who is the largest. It's a fair rule that applies to everybody.
And again, don't confuse sponsored ads with ad words selct. They are completely different. For $7500 I imagine they let you say "walk on water" in addition to biggest and best.
| 2:05 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
|Hey, you might want to look at AH-HA. |
4Crests - Ah-Ha has the best customer service I have ever seen. When I complained about an inappropriate ad ahead of me, it was gone within hours. When I complained about lack of traffic, they developed a set of 40 new phrases for me - some of which were really pretty good. Then they CALLED me to see if there was anything else they could do!
The only problem - still no clicks :(. Its a shame, but for me, at least, they just can't deliver the traffic - ANY traffic. The logo link ads look great - but no traffic. Oh well. They really do try hard. I wish I could spend more money with them - but no one will click on my ad!
| 2:12 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I agree. great customer service!
But, in my case I do get clicks. And I pay on average about .02 cents for each click.
Granted, I don't get ANYWHERE NEAR the clicks I get with Adwords or Overture, but i love the .02 clicks even if there are only a few of them.
My favorite is bidding high on Adwords Select. If you bid high enough, you may be placed in the Sponsored Link section. When I get a keyword in the Sponsored area, my CTR goes through the roof, and it's hard for my competitors to outbid me. I can stay in the top spot a lot cheaper than they can. I just have to make sure they don't bid a penny under me. I LOVE GOOGLE !!!
| 2:56 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
the largest Poster selections
at the best prices. >>
A big problem with this -- besides being unverifiable -- is that from a shopper's point of view it's nearly meaningless. Use that precious bit of space to say something REAL about your product or merchant -- maybe something like "35,000 posters in stock" "ships overnight" "100+ Marilynn posters" or something like that. That's both more credible and more useful to prospective customers, both of which will help you get better results from your AdWords investment.
| 3:08 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
well said !!
| 4:25 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Steve and Bucksworth...
So if my ad is against the "rules" how about these 2 which are the top 2 positions....
Posters - Huge Selection, Great Prices!
A********* The World's Largest Poster and Print Store!
So Steve you said "it is a fair rule that applies to eveyrone"
But that simply isnt true once you read thos ads..
And Bucksworth you said"
A big problem with this -- besides being unverifiable -- is that from a shopper's point of view it's nearly meaningless"
If it is meaningless why do the TOP suppliers use that lanquage ? ;)
It's promotional lanquage..it does have meaning...
You are letting your customer know you have the largest selection and the best prices..full of meaning wouldnt you say? !
But you do have a point..it is a precious amount of space..go for the best write up you can...
| 4:52 am on Jul 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
"Posters - Huge Selection, Great Prices!"
I don't see a problem with this one. I have some similar ones myself.
"A********* The World's Largest Poster and Print Store! "
This one probably hasn't been caught yet.
When i first signed up for Adwords, I had a whole bunch like this one. However, as the Editors go through the listings, they have been emailing me and telling me to change them. I am guessing that Google just hasn't seen this one yet or, it's a sponsored link. I still have some similar to this that Google hasn't cancelled yet. But, I'm sure they will, especially if someone reports them.
| This 35 message thread spans 2 pages: 35 (  2 ) > > |