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This 112 message thread spans 4 pages: 112 ( [1] 2 3 4 > >     
Budget Optimizer
New feature on Adwords
MarkHutch




msg:1119443
 1:43 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

This message is showing up on my Adwords account.

New! Get more clicks automatically with the Google Budget Optimizer™ tool. Let the Budget Optimizer actively adjust your keyword Max CPCs to yield the highest possible number of clicks within your target budget. Learn more

I'd love to check this out, but the link doesn't work. :(

 

zeus661




msg:1119444
 1:54 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

I do not find that link? Where do you see it?

MarkHutch




msg:1119445
 2:09 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

It's at the top of the main page where they usually put announcements of new things. The page right after you log in.

MarkHutch




msg:1119446
 4:12 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

<Update> I'm now seeing a link in my campaign settings where I can turn this feature on. Not going to do it until the "what it is" link works. I'd like to know more about this feature before I turn it on.

Robsp




msg:1119447
 5:44 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

No link here either. Feature sounds usefull though...

MarkHutch




msg:1119448
 5:51 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

Now it's gone. Wonder what happened? It did have a trademark sign (TM) after the phrase "Google Budget Optimizer".

Maybe they made a mistake and let the cat out of the bag early for some of us. :)

I agree, it does sound interesting.

jmacgregor




msg:1119449
 7:30 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yeah sounds potentially useful, but also potentially harmful.

Do you really want something auto-adjusting your max CPCs?

I'll sit it out for the start atleast.

MarkHutch




msg:1119450
 7:45 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

It's back, but the "more info" link still doesn't work.

zeus661




msg:1119451
 10:47 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

Can you send me a sticky with the link? All I see are the login page and the page that follows. But nothing of what you mention.

mike_ppc




msg:1119452
 12:24 pm on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

Has anyone clicked on the "Enable the Budget Optimizer" in the "Edit Campaign Settings"?

Since the "learn more" link doesn't seem to work, I wonder what enabling the optimizer could lead to ..

zeus661




msg:1119453
 12:53 pm on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

I do not have that link displaying. I wonder if it is because my budget is already set about 3 times what I use?

MarkHutch




msg:1119454
 6:46 pm on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

It's still there this morning. However, the link still doesn't work. I'm not going to turn it on until I can get some more information. It would be terrible if they adjusted my CPC to $50 each just to get clicks. That could be a disaster.

MarkHutch




msg:1119455
 6:50 pm on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

Here's the more info link location:

https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=16271&hl=en_US

Maybe AWA can pass along to the tech folks that the link doesn't work.

AdWordsAdvisor




msg:1119456
 6:55 pm on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

It's still there this morning. However, the link still doesn't work.

Hi all - I just visited WebmasterWorld in time to see this thread hit the top of the page, and wanted to give you a very brief explanation. Basically, those of you who are seeing this are seeing a spot o' testing. ;)

Yeah sounds potentially useful, but also potentially harmful.

Rest assured that, if and when this is ready for prime time, it'll be entirely optional. ;)

AWA

Frequent




msg:1119457
 7:47 pm on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well I too finally got curious and tried to enable it for a campaign. Of course I got an error message and every link to info on the page was dead just like the learn more link.

Google you are a huge tease! Even if I couldn't activate it I would at least like to read about it!

Of course, everything is pure conjecture since I can't 'learn more' but is anyone else suspect of a feature that maximizes your daily spend but doesn't (apparently) take ROI or conversions into account? One little snippet I did catch was that you'd no longer be able to view your max CPC for your keywords if you have the feature enabled!

Even if I am letting Google control the bids I would certainly need to know what I'm paying CPC-wise!

Freq---

mwilliams




msg:1119458
 10:01 pm on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

i'd feel a little nervous about letting google doing *anything* automatically for me these days...given the recent problems i've been having with broadmatching not working, ads not showing up, &c.

MarkHutch




msg:1119459
 11:49 pm on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

The information link is now working. I need to think about this one.

eWhisper




msg:1119460
 12:44 am on Apr 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

I tried to enable it on one of my test accounts, but I just get the error message 'your latest changes weren't processed' and sent back to the account page.

Seems there's still work to be done on it.

Soothware




msg:1119461
 1:08 am on Apr 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

What seems a little scary about this is the huge potential for a conflict of interest.

Optimizing campaigns means minimizing the amount spent with Google. The service is desperately needed, but should be provided by anyone but Google. (ok, the thought of a kanoodle operated program horrifies me ;-))

graywolf




msg:1119462
 5:47 am on Apr 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

I just saw this on my account turned it on for one ad. I'll report back when I have something to report.

mike_ppc




msg:1119463
 7:53 am on Apr 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm afraid this tool is using traffic estimator - so the results are completely non-realistic.

I don't remember anyone asked for such a feature. Instead, many other requested features were not added. Of course, Google does it's own way...

whoisgregg




msg:1119464
 1:08 pm on Apr 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

This should be interesting to play around with. I can think of a couple campaigns that I don't care what position I'm in and don't want to spend a lot of time optimizing them. I'd like to give this a whirl, but I'm getting a bug on the "Choose Budget" screen of the Budget Optimizer Setup:

Over the last 30 days » You received: Avg: $0.00 per click
You spent: $0.00 0 clicks

Hmm... That is most definitely *not* the case. :)

Also, I brought up the campaign screen and compared the spend over the last 30 days to what the Optimizer is offering and it's actually predicting fewer clicks? Am I already optimized or does the Optimizer guess low?

Added: Nevermind about the being optimized, only one of my campaigns is that way, I've already switched over a couple to the optimizer because it predicts 2-3 times the clicks for the same monthly budget. Looking forward to being very happy with the next 30 days business. :D

[edited by: whoisgregg at 1:18 pm (utc) on April 6, 2005]

cline




msg:1119465
 1:14 pm on Apr 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't remember anyone asked for such a feature. Instead, many other requested features were not added.

I bet they've gotten tons of requests from advertisers too unsophisticated to hang out here. Just last week I was working with a new client who said to me "clearly the objective is to get the greatest number of clicks for the lowest cost". That's just what the Budget Optimizer does.

Of course, if you know anything about PPC, the idea of getting the most clicks at the lowest price is naive. All clicks are not equal. Clicks from some keywords are much more likely to convert than others. Budget Optimizer ignores all of this. It gives what advertisers ask for, not what is good for them.

It is, however, clearly good for Google. What Budget Optimizer does is it moves spend away from expensive, highly competitive keywords to cheap, low competition keywords -- i.e., where there is undersold inventory.

Frequent




msg:1119466
 1:22 pm on Apr 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well, I decided to enable it for one of my smaller campaigns just to see what happens. G$ predicts more than 5 times the current clicks at the same budget. It should be interesting to see if they can actually extract that many clicks and how those clicks convert.

I still think it's a dangerous tool if G$ isn't somehow tracking conversions and throwing that into the mix.

We shall see...

Freq---

whoisgregg




msg:1119467
 1:28 pm on Apr 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

This is bugging me: What happens if all the advertisers for a certain keyword are using the Budget Optimizer?

If the Optimizer bids aggressively then over time will everyone will spend more and more for the same clicks? If the Optimizer underbids (by the smallest amount), then will all the advertisers eventually end up fluctuating between $.05, $.06, and $.07? How do different Optimizers compete?

dave741




msg:1119468
 1:34 pm on Apr 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

"...the objective is to get the greatest number of clicks for the lowest cost". That's just what the Budget Optimizer does.

Not exactly. If the objective is to get the greatest number of clicks for the lowest cost, then there are other variables you have to work with - good ad text, good words and phrases atc.

My view on this new feature is, that this is a "great" tool for companies, that just need to spend their budget, but they do not care for ROI. So, Google might be sure, that with this feature the budget will be spent. This feature do not care if you have weak ad text, do not care about the words and phrases you have choosen.

mike_ppc




msg:1119469
 1:57 pm on Apr 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

We are missing a point here. My guess is that the optimizer will spend all daily budget most of the times by increasing CPC.

All the estimates that you see (three-five times theactual number of clicks, at a lower CPC) are based on ....the Traffic Estimator:

"The Google Budget Optimizer™ tool first analyzes your target budget and projected keyword traffic (based on information from the AdWords Traffic Estimator)"

Nothing more for me to say. Still, I would like to be wrong and this to be a great tool.

PS: What if there is a large-traffic low-ROI KW? I would like to keep CPC very low, but the estimator will raise it, as it is a "high-performing keyword" ....

nyet




msg:1119470
 2:21 pm on Apr 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have not tried it out, but I think Google might be missing thge boat her a little.

The goal for the advertiser is not (as the 'learn more' page states) to "actively seek out the most clicks." That might be Google's goal, but not ours.

Ours is to "actively seek out the most high-quality clicks."

If I just want traffic, I cab bid through the roof and make vague but enticing ads. I'll get tons of clicks - they will all *leave* immeadiately, but I'll get lots of clicks.

How will this thingy "optimize" for quality clicks? Traffic is easy, relevant traffic is the hard part.

If traffic is all you want then this thing will just be an automatic bidding war, no? The higher you are on the page the more raw traffic you will get.

jim2003




msg:1119471
 3:03 pm on Apr 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hello,

Mike_PPC, I think you are right that the tool will increase clicks by increasing the MAX cost per click. This could prove useful though. Its nearly impossible to continually adjust the max bid manually in order to achieve the highest possible Ad rank (without killing ROI). If the budget optimize tool works in a truly real-time and iterative fashion then it is possible that it will help a particular advertisment achieve a higher ad rank (and therefore more clicks), without substantially increasing the cost per click.

Even if everybody competing for position uses the optimize tool its possible that the ads that ultimately achieve the highest ad rank will be the best written and most relevent ads.

Regards,

nyet




msg:1119472
 3:22 pm on Apr 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

Its nearly impossible to continually adjust the max bid manually in order to achieve the highest possible Ad rank (without killing ROI).

I don't understand the point you are making here. To get the highest possition possible without killing ROI, determine your "killing ROI" bid point and bid just under that. Doesn't that acheive the same thing?

From what I can tell the new tool tires to "up" your bid where you might be missing additional traffic because of a low bid.

The problem with this thinking is that not all clicks are equal. All words do not convert at the same rate.

So I don't want "Max Traffic" I want Good Traffic! To get that I am willing to pay higer bids for higher ROI words and vice-versa.

If BudgetOpto does not consider ROI, how will I benefit by giving up control and decisionmaking?

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