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This 262 message thread spans 9 pages: < < 262 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9]     
Google - Affiliates - Update
latest news coming through
Shak

WebmasterWorld Senior Member shak us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 9:43 am on Nov 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

following on from this:
[webmasterworld.com...]

Google are going to be making serious serious changes to the whole affiliate > merchant via ppc stuff.

early reports indicate an "auction" based system where advertisers fight it out on who can bid, and only 1 advertiser per site as such.

obviously I do NOT have correct details as I do NOT work for Google. so can not explain exactly whats gonna take place.

but be ready, it soon cometh.

Shak

 

hurlimann

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 12:26 am on Jan 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

I am not an affiliate and having read most of these posts I am still at a total loss of what Google is actually thinking of doing.

Clearly they are minded to make a major change and have allowed it to leak and it seems even issued details to some. This is standard corporate stuff to test reaction.

AWA having admitted as much here and stating all views will be considered should set out here what they propose in black and white. This way Google get decent free feedback and this thread will not just be the speculation, conjecture and mud slinging it has become.

What ever they do propose Google I will bet my house any change they make will be designed to increase or protect revenues or margins or is as a result of legal advice.

hurlimann

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 12:59 am on Jan 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Whatever Google are up to it would be helpful if they defined their interpretation of “affiliate” and “merchant”. Using standard dictionary definitions:

Many web sites are affiliates of Amazon. These sites are also merchants.
Amazon are merchants. They are also affiliates of the publishers.

I would be glad to hear what they propose to do when the author, publisher, amazon , B and N, and a host of thier affiliates all wish to advertise a book on Google using it’s title or author as a keyword and all the sites are unique.

IntegraGsrBalla

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 1:32 am on Jan 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

If you are an affiliate i wouldn't be too worried.

Google won't make a drastic/big change.

They would be risking Stock-Holder suicide.

Google stockholders wouldn't approve in such a big decision.

I do think they will make small changes over time. So they wont loose too much revenue,

It will be interesting to find out what decisions they make.

I wouldn't panic though.

Affiliates play a BIG part of Googles revenue.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 3:14 am on Jan 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

If you are an affiliate i wouldn't be too worried.
Google won't make a drastic/big change.

Why not? Google has already undergone drastic changes. Wouldn't you concede that the near-takeover of Google Search by SEOs, affiliate marketers, and "made for AdSense" site owners is a drastic change from the Google Search of a few years ago? Isn't it reasonable to assume that, at some point, Google will choose to become proactive instead of reactive, and that some changes will be painful for marketers who can't or won't adapt?

Qui Gon Jinn

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 4:32 am on Jan 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

I haven't returned to this thread for a few days, interesting to see it's still quite gripping & maintaining its position.

But what's that persistent echo I keep hearing reminiscent to a dripping tap that keeps on interjecting?!

<as one places ear plugs, in ones ears exclaiming "i can't hear you...la la la la">

I think i am adopting a whole new form of banner blindness.

Putting my little dig to one side...

...may i ask just a general question...does anyone find that sometimes ads are not given enough weight to exact match keyword phrases.

For example take a model of a dvd player ZCD101 (made up example), I bid on [ZCD101 dvd player], but when a user types this in, all the broad matches on "dvd player" are above it? I do approve of broadmatch but if weighted correctly.

Negating good copy & relevant title etc..I sometimes wish more weight was given to those of us who made the effort of creating very targeted keyword databases.

Personally i feel the whole presell thing might not always work conversion wise, unless after the presell on your site the link actually inserts the product in the shopping basket by prefilling the basket or taking the user directly to the checkout. I have yet to come across many programs which prefill the basket after we have presold them on our sites or ppc activity...

...otherwise in effect the customer has to be presold twice?! Once on your site & once again on the merchant site..I suppose what I am rambling on about is that affiliate links should have the ability to take customers to the checkout and/or shopping basket....for improved CR

Correct me if i am wrong, but who says you cannot presell a product in 3 lines of ad copy on a ppc search engine and do ppc > merchant?

What's the better user experience in time & bandwidth?

a.) ppc > publisher site > merchant ....noting no basket prefill thus a product is effectively presold three times

b.) ppc > merchant ....noting again no basket prefill but a product is only presold twice.

Slightly off topic, but wouldn't it be good to see baskets prefilled or direct to checkout affiliate links to potentially see those CR (conversion rates) soar!

[edited by: Qui_Gon_Jinn at 4:41 am (utc) on Jan. 2, 2005]

buckworks

WebmasterWorld Administrator buckworks us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 4:35 am on Jan 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Most affiliates like that are not really committed to their keyword enough to actually make their own site. Currently, they just lazily plug in a dynamic URL and their ad is set -- even though they have done zero effort more than that to actually commit to the keyword.

This is simply misinformed.

But that's all I'll say about that.

instinct

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 6:31 am on Jan 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

I ask for this to be a genuine forum for those seeking honest discussion, which is all that I have been genuinely trying to do.

LOL! Lets recap the name calling engaged in by Multiman. In the three months (or so) I've been on WebmasterWorld, he has called others:

Ghosts, criminals, welfare recipients, stalkers, attackers, spammers, whinners, trough-feeders, inferior, scaredy-cats, shady, evil, twisted and thieves.

(I probably missed a bunch)

Multiman, regardless of the validity of your arguments, your juvenile name-calling is both offensive and detrimental to getting others to see your point of view. I would suggest not only 'seeking honest and genuine discussion' but also 'respectful' discussion as well. It might get you further.

MultiMan

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 3:15 pm on Jan 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Intellectually honest adults understand that word pictures provide descriptive context for understanding, as being obviously different from mere "name-calling."

The only way that affiliates who hate both me and the intellectual validity of my arguments will ever be willing to allow their own minds to see the sincerity of my posts would be if I succumb to their problem-causing agenda to simply keep only the status quo in AW for their own profit. Since I do not, and since I instead propose legitimate possibilities that are so good it scares them enough to want me silenced, they can always be expected to malign me with their own "name-calling" me as "disrespectful" -- no matter how may times I have tried to clarify how I am not out to destroy them.

buckworks

WebmasterWorld Administrator buckworks us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 3:42 pm on Jan 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

that affiliates who hate both me and the intellectual validity of my arguments

It is a serious logical fallacy to assume that someone only disagrees with you because they dislike you.

skippy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 4:39 pm on Jan 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Mutiman says

Can we please stay on-topic to the thread?

Tee Hee that was priceless.

I really don’t understand the rationality of this possible change. It would cause damage to Adwords, Adsense and would require searchers to perform an additional step to reach their desired destination which would make google less relevant to the searcher.

Visi

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 4:52 pm on Jan 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

You are right your sentence never implied that...it stated that. :)

Multiman as an outside observer to this thread it is apparent that you have stated your case, others do not agree.

There seems to be little support of your position at this time for whatever reason. You have taken this thread through a number of twists and turns including the paronoid position of "stalkers" attacking you. Perhaps it is time to rethink you position?, or agree that others can also have their positions.

Some discussions are not won or lost and this seems to be your only motivation for posting in this thread. Your agenda is unknown to me, nor do I care to know it. However I do know your position has been given, and restated a number of times. Why not leave it at that?

This board has and hopefully will, continue to be a place where opinions can be stated without attacks from others. Perhaps the moderators will edit some of the above posts so the essence of the thread remains intact?

contentsiteguy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 5:36 pm on Jan 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Personally i feel the whole presell thing might not always work conversion wise, unless after the presell on your site the link actually inserts the product in the shopping basket by prefilling the basket or taking the user directly to the checkout. I have yet to come across many programs which prefill the basket after we have presold them on our sites or ppc activity...

...otherwise in effect the customer has to be presold twice?! Once on your site & once again on the merchant site..I suppose what I am rambling on about is that affiliate links should have the ability to take customers to the checkout and/or shopping basket....for improved CR

This whole concept of getting search visitors to your site first, preselling, and then sending them to the merchant is not new... it's called "organic search engine marketing". You guys ought to try it sometime. :-)

Seriously though, there's gonna be a whole lot of affiliates needing to brush up on their preselling skills if Google does what it seems like they're gonna do.

Done the right way, you don't end up "selling" the visitor twice at all. The fine art of preselling is MUCH different from selling.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 6:34 pm on Jan 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Seriously though, there's gonna be a whole lot of affiliates needing to brush up on their preselling skills if Google does what it seems like they're gonna do....The fine art of preselling is MUCH different from selling.

It's also the difference between adding value for the merchant and being the PPC equivalent of a day trader.

Qui Gon Jinn

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 12:26 am on Jan 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

This whole concept of getting search visitors to your site first, preselling, and then sending them to the merchant is not new... it's called "organic search engine marketing". You guys ought to try it sometime. :-)

Seriously though, there's gonna be a whole lot of affiliates needing to brush up on their preselling skills if Google does what it seems like they're gonna do.

Quite a few affiliates including ourselves do both in addition to other forms of marketing, in essence covering most bases to best of ability & resources, with the flexibility to adapt, whislt wearing as many worzel gummidge heads as possible.

I don't think the serious ppc'ers should be understated, one or two here seem to treat them like lepers, and from the few we know they are genuine, intelligent guys.

A pre-sell could be anything from three lines of ad copy to a full page of content with additional related information, as long as the merchants brand & product is portrayed favourably there are no real right or wrongs if all parties are satisfied and a bonfied transaction occurs.

If the aforementioned is maintained what does the merchant want at the end of the day..bottom line is probably sales with repeated custom / high lifetime value of customer & postive brand imaging.

It's all down personally to ones interpretation of pre-sell & relevant content....as long is it works.....as long as customer merchant & affiliate are happy...not others opinions (unless objective) or interpretations.

Think outside the envelope

P.S. I can still that bloomin echo...

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 5:00 am on Jan 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

In the end, it comes down to what's best for Google. If Google feels that letting multiple affiliate ads point to the same merchant's landing page is bad for AdWords/AdSense, then the rules will change.

TrustNo1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 8:36 am on Jan 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

.

MultiMan

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 11:15 am on Jan 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

that affiliates who hate both me and the intellectual validity of my arguments

It is a serious logical fallacy to assume that someone only disagrees with you because they dislike you.

I only referred to individuals who both hate me and hate my arguments. The word "because" was never stated. I never said X was "because" of Y, so no "logical fallicy" occurred -- because that is not what I said.

patient2all

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 6:35 am on Jan 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Multiman,

Many of us disagree with you strongly, but although tempers have risen at times, no one has said or otherwise indicated they HATE you.

You repeat the same points over and over again which I believe are rooted in some past perceived injustice you feel was done to you by an affiliate. You continually resort to using highly condescending insults when describing affiliates or anyone who doesn't agree with you. That has certainly irked more than a few people. However, it's wrong for you to say you are hated.... You're just a bit annoying after a while (and not because you're the only one speaking the truth).

patient2all

PeteM

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 7:00 pm on Jan 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

Jan 1st is the day, so I hear

Nah, nobody in the IT industry makes changes (or even announces them) on 1st of Jan. More likely 5th Jan.

Well I was nearly right!

patient2all

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 7:05 pm on Jan 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

Gee, I had no idea how much power Multiman had over at Google.

He kept alluding to how they seem to be listening to him, but boy he proved us all wrong.

I must now so humbly admit that Multiman is indeed as superior to every other poster as he thinks he is.

Well, things could be worse, he could be my neighbor or co-worker or something like that.

patient2all

johnwhitesmith



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 1:55 am on Jan 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Adwords Affiliate programs are a huge ponzi scheme opperated mainly by ebook merchants. Only a tiny majority of affiliate make serious money, but those few names are circulated to adnauseum by the adwords ebook sites, thus creating a heard mentality. They tell you that you can earn 100's a day doing well..typing a tiny ad or going on a few websites.

But there aren't enough people to keep the affilite scheme going so 99.9% of affiliate marketers fail.Who is gonna click on an affiate ad when they can jsut go ion the website?
See but if you do a google search for 'google affiliate', you will see there are about 10^121 results so you can immagine that the supply far exceeds the demand. you have millions of fools thinking that they can work at home and make 100K a year after buying an ebook on afflilate marketing and running adwords.

The only ones who make money off adwords are those who sell ebooks on how to make money with adwords.

Wait im gonna get 20 replies from people saying

'I have had great results ummum I make 20000 an hour and 200000000000 a year with my affiliate ads 1!1!11'

eWhisper

WebmasterWorld Administrator ewhisper us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3940 posted 2:56 am on Jan 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Post Summary:
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New TOS:
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