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Hard To make money with adwords
rumit123

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 3:03 pm on Nov 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

I am doing adwords for 2 months and promoting affilaite programs but cannot make any money ,is anyone really making money any comments from you all.or i am doing some wrong.
thanks

 

yanov

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 3:52 pm on Nov 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm doing adwords from 3 days and I have revenue.
1)May be you have problem with the links. Check them all!
2)Do you bid too low?
3)Has your account been slowed down? (due to low CTR)
4)Do you have problems with the approval of the ads (some times adwords sends you messages after about a day that some of them are disabled)
5)What are your average positions?
6)Is the destination url sending the customer to a landing page or just to the main page?
7)Do you have different ads for the ad groups?
If you answer to these questions I may be able to help you. But 2 months are too much.How much clicks do you have till now?
Asen Yanov

rumit123

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 5:31 pm on Nov 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

i am doing it for 2 months and spend like 3000 dolars and i am in loss right know ,in the beginning i was profitable ,what programs are u promoting

awall19

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 5:54 pm on Nov 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

>what programs are u promoting

odds are people are not going to want to disclose that on an open forum of this size...else they would make more competition for themselves and cut their own profit margins.

PatrickDeese

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 6:05 pm on Nov 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

You have to choose your programs very carefully - and track them if possible. I have had the best luck promoting companies that have a wide range of price points - one of my best companies has service ranging from $5/month to several hundred dollars a year, and I get a percentage of any sale - some times I get only "break even" conversion days, where the sales only cover the day's PPC spend, but everytime I make an annual sale, I make very good return on the money, I make about 4:1 from them

For instance, in CJ you can put your keywords in the "SID" string, which means you can track the performance of specific keywords.

If you find one the is working, work on variations of the same term, for instance if "buy widgets" is converting try "buywidgets", "buy widget" "buy widgettes" "buy wdgets" etc.

Don't try to be #1 for every keyword. some of my best conversions are coming from stuff that is average position 8 or even lower.

[edited by: PatrickDeese at 6:50 pm (utc) on Nov. 7, 2004]

yanov

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 6:50 pm on Nov 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

LOL. 8 position and lower.
I didn't know that people scroll down the pages at all?
Man you must be selling hyper expensive products and that's why people do so much investigation. I don't think that 8th place will do for cheaper products.

rumit123 are you doing tracking of the keywords?

PPCBidder



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 5:23 am on Nov 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

odds are people are not going to want to disclose that on an open forum of this size...else they would make more competition for themselves and cut their own profit margins.

Don't bet on it. There are dufuses everywhere I've given up trying to contain them all. It amazes me the number of people that have no business sense and think they are doing a favor by disclosing adwords techniques. I explain to them why they are morons and then get accused of flaming or trolling. Quite frustrating, really.

edit_g

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 5:30 am on Nov 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

There are dufuses everywhere I've given up trying to contain them all.

I think that sometimes if you share a little information, you get a lot in return...

skibum

WebmasterWorld Administrator skibum us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 6:16 am on Nov 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

While people aren't likely to give specifics on what merchants or keywords they are bidding on/for it often makes good business sense to disclose AdWords techniques. After all, it is posts like that that keep a forum vibrant and often leads to business inquiries.

As for positions below 8 pulling traffic, they sure do! Pulled about 800,000 clicks from AdWords for an affiliate program over the last year or so & don't think anything is on the first page of results.

PPCBidder



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 10:16 pm on Nov 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

it often makes good business sense to disclose AdWords techniques.

As for positions below 8 pulling traffic, they sure do! Pulled about 800,000 clicks from AdWords for an affiliate program over the last year or so & don't think anything is on the first page of results.

Ok, so why don't you tell me more about that.

incrediblehelp

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 2:50 am on Nov 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I am sure they wouldn't mind saying what they promote, but I am sure if it is prescriptions, gambling, mortgages, etc they are already saturated so it doesn't matter.

However if you are doing PPC you shouldn't be losing money. You should only bid on keywords that are making you money, not throw money to the wind and try any keyword to start. Research should be already done on your own logs to see what is working and not working. if you don't have any results to look at you should start by biding small on popular terms and build up until you see some return for the investment to justify a higher position. Don't just assume that if you bid in the top 5 that it will make you money. many of those companies bidding in the top spots LOSE money on those bids.

Of course I am only partial to using PPC for normal (or unsaturated) clients or business models. If my clients happen to be in a saturated business model I recommend staying away from PPC from the beginning, unless they are already doing themselves and comfortable with their return on investment.

PPCBidder



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 4:06 am on Nov 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

it is posts like that that keep a forum vibrant and often leads to business inquiries.

Ok skibum, the following is a post that somebody made directly on the message board for this merchant just recently. It made me quite angry. Don't you think this is crossing the line? While it obviously could be even more detailed, I think he said way too much.

I don't think it's impossible to make a profit on [merchant] using CPC. I DO think it's incredibly difficult to do so just selling [main merchant item] and lower-priced stuff, however.

While i've found its possible to be profitable at about 5 cents a click with [specific product category] ($XX and above), I've found that just about anything below that doesn't make you five cents a click. I've been successful promoting higher-priced items (mainly in [merchant category]). You might want to take a look at that. I'd suggest finding products with as few people advertising them as possible (preferably fewer than 2 other [ads by same merchant], and preferably fewer than 6 total), especially those items where [merchant] isn't listed on the top page (mainly new items). If you judiciously track your ROI and don't overbid, I don't think it's terribly hard to earn a profit.

Generally on this merchant board and other boards, when people mention CPC I either ignore it or agree with what some others say that it is 'too difficult to make a profit'. However, there always seems to be somebody who is either arrogant or dumb and starts bragging about their profitability. Then people inquire about how they do it, and amazingly they often give response. People then start using them and they sometimes turn into an open book. I don't know man, it just gets under my skin as horrible horrible business practice that ultimately cuts into my margins.

There is more to adwords than it may seem on the surface. I just don't get why people seem to want to give others a head start. My mantra is to let them learn by themselves, just like any normal company or corporation policy. I don't see McDonald's lending a hand to Burger King, for example.

Arrgh, I'm all worked up again.

cabowabo

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 4:09 am on Nov 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Find your niche, write your Titles carefully and track the results. Modify based on ROI issues.

CaboWabo

skibum

WebmasterWorld Administrator skibum us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 6:47 am on Nov 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm not suggesting that if you find a profitable niche you should broadcast it to the world. If someone wants to eliminate their income from AdWords/affiliate programs that is probably the best way to do it. If someone wants to do that though, it's their perogative.

This forum isn't about specific keywords & merchants anyway, its about helping each other find strategies & uncover tactics that they can use for affiliate programs or their own in-house PPC programs. If you just tell someone to bid on these 5 keywords, promote these 5 products, and send the traffic to this merchant, they might make a few bucks. You've given them a fish but haven't taught them how to feed themselves. If you know what you are doing and go all out you can probably make more money buying AdWords and sending traffic to various affiliate merchant sites than all but the most highly paid Google execs or engineers earn in salary in a year....and still go skiing whenever you want. Of course you can also lose more money than they make in a year too.

If merchants recognize you are an expert at doing this type of thing, some will bend over backwards to get you to run ads for them. They'll go so far as to file the paperwork to let you use their trademark in your affiliate ads when everyone else is prohibited from using it.

Much of the learning, recognition, and later, special offers and agreements with merchants often may ultimately stem from forum participation and networking at events. It might lead to a sticky mail exchange, which might lead to a speaking gig, which might lead to an affiliate network inviting you to address their largest merchants on the topic which may lead to more lucrative opportunities.

Bottom line, the more you give, the more you get but its important to be mindful of giving out specifics if you want to keep the cash flow coming.

cline

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 8:30 pm on Nov 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

Remember that what they're showing you is *average* position. If your average position is #9, then sometimes you're above #9.

I've seen some situations where there are large numbers of bidders, all with approximately the same adrank. G seems to just randomly allocate traffic among them. Average position may be #20, but sometimes the ad is #8, and sometimes it's #40.

Syzygy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 8:59 pm on Nov 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

Find your niche, write your Titles carefully and track the results. Modify based on ROI issues

Yup, sometimes the simplest of philosophies are the crux to success...

Syzygy

PPCBidder



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 9:12 pm on Nov 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

Find your niche, write your Titles carefully and track the results.

Except for the fact that any ad you place in a niche niche right now will end up ON HOLD. Makes success very difficult.

AdWordsAdvisor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member adwordsadvisor us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 11:16 pm on Nov 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've seen some situations where there are large numbers of bidders, all with approximately the same adrank. G seems to just randomly allocate traffic among them. Average position may be #20, but sometimes the ad is #8, and sometimes it's #40.

It is really not at all random, cline.

A good way to visualize it is to picture an online auction taking place each and every time a search is done. The prize of the auction is 'ad position'.

So when a search is done, and the auction is run, ad position amongst all advertiser eligible to show in the moment of the search is determined by the 'rank number' (CTR x Max CPC) in play, for each advertiser, in that instant.

By the way, ad rank is calculated out to many, many decimal places - so the concept of 'approximately the same' does not really apply.

Hope that made sense.

AWA

AdWordsAdvisor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member adwordsadvisor us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 11:38 pm on Nov 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

Except for the fact that any ad you place in a niche niche right now will end up ON HOLD. Makes success very difficult.

Although this can happen, I certainly wouldn't call it a 'fact'.

Remember, the number of impressions that a keyword gets is not really a concern. Nor is the number of clicks. Rather, it is the ratio of impressions to clicks that matters. (Meaning, how relevant is the keyword/ad combination to Google users?)

So, for example, a very specific keyword that gets 10 impressions in a month on Google, and which shows an ad so relevant that it also gets 3 clicks has a 33% CTR. That is pretty darn good.

On the other hand, a general keyword that gets 10,000 impressions a month on Google, and which shows an ad of such marginal relevance that it gets 10 click has a CTR of 0.1%. This is not so good.

AWA

PPCBidder



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 12:52 am on Nov 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

So, for example, a very specific keyword that gets 10 impressions in a month on Google, and which shows an ad so relevant that it also gets 3 clicks has a 33% CTR. That is pretty darn good.

Hey, thanks for answering me AWA. The problem is this: After the new system was introduced, I now have a bunch of low impression/day keywords like your above example that are now on hold. Their overall CTR is good, and under the old system they were "moderate" at worst and I think some may have even been "Strong".

Perhaps the new algorithm has something where a 0.0% CTR puts the ad "On Hold" after a day? If so, this would be a very bad thing.

Take these hypothetical stats for Keyword1 over a week:

Day Clk Imp CTR
Sun 3 40 7.5%
Mon 5 60 8.3%
Tue 0 25 0.0%
Wed 0 40 0.0%
Thu 4 30 13.3%
Fri 2 40 5.0%
Sat 3 45 6.7%
---------
Tot 17 280 (6.1% CTR)

Would this keyword survive Tuesday and Wednesday? My guess is under the new algorithm it wouldn't. I have many keywords like this that sometimes don't get a click every day but overall have excellent CTR and relevance. They are now on hold.

Also AWA, I posted in another thread about how I have a new KW within an ad I have that received in total 1 click on 1 impression and is now "On Hold". I have others with 2 clicks on 3 imps, etc. It doesn't make any sense why these are on hold, and it all seems to hinge on when the updates to the system were made. With christmas around the corner, I am worried. Please help/explain. Thanks! :)

edit -- my theory on these is that they only have search partner clicks and no google clicks, but still an ad with 1,2,10 impressions being placed on hold so quickly doesn't make sense

bumpski

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 5:32 pm on Nov 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

I agree, I have keywords with very good long term average CTR that went on hold almost immediately. I'm unwilling to edit these campaigns until adwords puts in about three more tweaks that we'll all have to guess at, and brings in some stability.

This system needs some serious statistical analysis. Thresholds are clearly being applied on non-statistically significant sample sizes, new system or old!

The new system actually looks worse. I was so hopeful this update was going to bring in some meaningful statistical measures, not at 1000 this we're going to do that.

cline

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 6:41 pm on Nov 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

It is really not at all random, cline.

A good way to visualize it is to picture an online auction taking place each and every time a search is done. The prize of the auction is 'ad position'.

So when a search is done, and the auction is run, ad position amongst all advertiser eligible to show in the moment of the search is determined by the 'rank number' (CTR x Max CPC) in play, for each advertiser, in that instant.

By the way, ad rank is calculated out to many, many decimal places - so the concept of 'approximately the same' does not really apply.

AWA, that's why I said "seems to just randomly allocate traffic..." I never said that this was how it actually works. Let me explain further about how this comes out in practice from the perspective of the advertiser.

Assume we're talking about "widget consulting", a field with hundreds of solo practioners and no big players. All of the practioners have similar businesses and similar economics. Consequently, when they use Adwords, they have similar offers, ads, and bids. While the ranking of the ads is, at any instant, deterministic, whether a particular user clicks on an ad is a near-random function. When a user clicks on an ad, Adrank is recalculated for all the ads. Since there are large numbers of bidders with Adranks that are all very close, one click can have a huge *relative* impact on Adrank, which, from an external perspective, is for all practical purposes essentially random.

HitProf

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3797 posted 10:12 pm on Nov 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

>LOL. 8 position and lower.

Nope. I even try to target position 9 and 10 on competitive keywords. Very good CTR sometimes a lot cheaper. Only problem is it boosts your CTR so you end up at #6/7/8 very soon :) Then it's time to change stragegy :)

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