| 12:04 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Not sure whether I agree with all of them, but hey, I don't think anybody will agree with all of my "classic mistakes" list ;)
5) Uploading hundreds of keywords at the same time -
This generally results in disabling of keywords and sometimes, the entire account because of low CTR. A Google AdWords campaign should be "grown" slowly. That is, upload 10 keywords, make sure they are getting good CTR, upload 10 more after that.
6) Improper use of AdGroups -
Some advertisers use AdGroups just to group differently priced keywords. Most of them forget to change the ad copies. Each adgroup should have a different ad based on the keywords in the adgroup.
7) Insufficient use of AdGroups -
Some advertisers dump a number of keywords in an adgroup. Ideally, an adgroup should not contain more than 10 keywords. This allows for easy customization of the ad copy based on the keywords. High traffic keywords should definitely have a seperate Adgroup.
| 1:36 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)|
8. Not using "phrase match" and [exact match]
9. Accepting the limit that Google suggest you pay for the keyword campaign
10. Having your "expensive" keywords in a generic ad group making all of the other "cheap" keywords more expensive
11. Losing sight of the fact it's all about ROI (even if you are not selling, the return might be more newsletter subscribers). Junk the keywords that don't convert for you.
12. Thinking that setting up a campaign is a "lock and load" process that you do once.
13. Not tracking the clicks that get delivered to extract more knowledge out of your keyword pool. Just because people get good CTR don't assume that the context in which they clicked your ad is the context you thought it would be. Different words will have different meanings in different languages, so if you are going global, expect the unexpected.
| 5:40 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)|
These lists are confusing..some of them seem to be what you SHOULD DO in a list of DON'T DO's...
Also, I read that having a google adwords account helps you because the google ad team will warn you before applying a penalty. Has this been people's experience? If so, how much do you need to advertise per month before you actually exist for google (and can speak to a human)?
| 5:59 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>>> warn you before applying a penalty.
Penalty? What penalty? Are you talking about Google ad team freezing your account for low CTR? Or are you talking about PR0 penalty?
>>> how much do you need to advertise per month before you actually exist for google (and can speak to a human)?
There is no minimum monthly spend requirement at Google AdWords. Somebody I know is spending $15 a month on Google AdWords - and is fairly happy with their (email) support. If you want Google to help you out with ad copy creation etc, you need to upgrade to Premium Sponsorship and that will cost you around $5000 per month.
| 7:12 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)|
PR0 penalty...there was something about it on searchday...if i remember correctly...
| 7:17 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)|
in relation to the classic dont DOs, I cant really comment as I have not got a clue, and besides the 2 adwords gurus have already answered.
in relation to:
|Also, I read that having a google adwords account helps you because the google ad team will warn you before applying a penalty. Has this been people's experience? If so, how much do you need to advertise per month before you actually exist for google (and can speak to a human)? |
NO chance, having an adwords account will give you NO assistance in relation to penalties, algo tips etc etc from Google staff.
| 7:43 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Would you please explain this one
|10. Having your "expensive" keywords in a generic ad group making all of the other "cheap" keywords more expensive |
| 9:37 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)|
To make it easier, here is the pertinent section:
|Standards - The Bone of Contention |
The push for SEM industry standards and SEO ethics guidelines continues, yet the likelihood of the industry coming to something of an agreement on this topic seems to be an impossible goal. Complicating matters on this front are some of the actions taken by the search engines themselves, either by not clearly defining "the rules for spam" or setting guidelines that appear contradictory in nature.
Exposing some of the double standards set forth by the major engines was Greg Boser of Web Guerrilla, who presented several instances of "favoritism" for sites that allegedly used spam tactics. Boser contends that paying advertisers are given "somewhat of a free pass" or a chance to clean up the egregiously spammy SEO, and typically it is the website's ad sales representative who gives a heads up to the webmaster before the site gets removed from the natural index.
To avoid the "relative risk" by pushing the limits of spam policies, Boser recommends spending a minimal budget advertising on the engines while implementing organic SEO tactics instead. Doing so may provide you with an inside track in times of crisis - such as a "PR0" penalty or a missed update.
Access to an ad rep may also help uncover potential code problems or other errors that prevent proper spidering of your site. In extreme cases, such contacts can shed light on non-public issues, such as "back room deals" where inventory for particular keyword buys have been sold out for eternity, due to previous contracts signed.
so my question pertained to What is a "minimum budget"?
| 9:40 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)|
the crucial word being "may"
it is NOT alone a reason to have an adwords account for the back door strategy, a friendly person at any organisation could provide information not only to clients but also to competitors.
anyway going way off thread here. and who is this Greg Bosser character anyway?
| 9:44 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)|
My understanding is that there is absolutely no link between adwords (which is paid advertising on Google SERPS)and Google the search engine (where your site gets listed for free).
| 9:58 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Good question. Is the Web Guerilla mentioned the same one who is a mod here?
Also, rereading it, they are saying that you have access to an ad rep. I've played around with adwords and never spoke to a human. I would certainly value speaking to a human at google and would be happy to pay for it, even if "officially" he can't say anything important.
I'm also more believing of this article...naturally no one will say it openly, but I wouldn't be surprised if a big spender had access to warnings etcetera..
| 10:06 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|Also, rereading it, they are saying that you have access to an ad rep. I've played around with adwords and never spoke to a human. I would certainly value speaking to a human at google and would be happy to pay for it, even if "officially" he can't say anything important. |
without wanting to knock Adwords reps (and apologies in advance), they adwords rep would NOT know their backside from their elbow when it comes to SERPS.
The SERPS team is VERY VERY different to the Adwords and the Premium listings teams, and will be very unlikely to shed insider information.
Do NOT think that by being an advertiser will help you get away with things, it could actually be harmful as they have all your data to cross check with whois etc etc.
| 11:17 pm on Feb 23, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Let's say you are putting an ad together and arrive at a keyword list of say 40 keywords.
If you want your ad to appear in the US for certain keywords you have to agree to pay a minimum amount of money. You either accept that your ad doesn't get shown for that keyword in that country, or agree to pay the minimum for ALL of the keywords in the pool you have.
Now, because Google discount on your bids, you will always pay no more than 1 cent higher than the next bidder, but if you were planning on pitching in around 4th or 5th place at 25 cents, all of a sudden, because of one keyword Google assumes you want to pay 40 cents across the board, which may put you around 2nd or 3rd, but you'll pay a lot more as a result. Either you sift the ads into a sort of VIP lounge, or you use the new facility of setting a different price for your keyword in the same group. I prefer to sift them, because you can spend more time managing the important keywords that way.
If you are fortunate enough to have a contact in the Adwords editorial team, they will often give you some guidance on variations on words that you may wish to try (and they are always right, they see all the stuff after all). These are the sorts of people that if ever they decide to leave Google (or Overture or whoever), they should come work for me!
I think there are some untruths in the article quoted, the use of Adwords as a testing ground to establish keywords and to try things without incurring the wrath of a PR0 penalty, is something we have been doing for quite a while, so I think Greg has put the chicken before the egg somewhat.
Using Adwords as a backfill of sorts if you are unlucky enough to suffer a delisting for whatever reason (usually they are not sinister or deliberate, it just happens), at least offers businesses some form of continuity while listings and SERP's come back. Many companies would cease trading tomorrow without their Google results.
| 2:55 am on Feb 24, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>>> Is the WebGuerilla mentioned the same one who is a mod here?
Yep - moderator of Google News forum, no less!
>>> Access to an ad rep may also help uncover potential code problems or other errors that prevent proper spidering of your site.
I feel WG is talking about Premium Sponsorships where Google offers a personalized service with access to an account manager. When there is a high level of interactivity between the Google account manager and the advertiser, the Google rep MAY give a few suggestions to the advertiser on search listings.
As an AdWords advertiser, all you will get from Google for paying top dollar is a nice black Google blanket!
The level of communication between an AdWords advertiser and the AdWords rep is extremely low. The reps have other things to do, they won't take a second look at your website.
| 5:44 am on Feb 24, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Just to clear things up, I was referring to premium sponsorships, not adwords.
| 8:05 am on Feb 24, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Nice post btw!
|Just to clear things up, I was referring to premium sponsorships, not adwords. |
Well you know what, it can also refer to Adwords and makes us save a lot of money too here with this technique.
For example, by using the "bulk keywords" method, you can insert a good bunch of keywords in just ONE CAMPAIGN and set a different CPC price for EVERY KEYWORD you have in your list overwriting this way the principal CPC value you enter on the top of the keywords page.
This way, you can set the CPC price for each one of them so that they all display #2, #3 or whatever the rank you want to display them.
Because without that, if you boost your CPC value to 25 cents just to elevate the rank of your ad for your most searched keyword, you might end up moving ALL the less searched kw to #1 and you may or may not want that to happen.
URL for the bulk method : https://adwords.google.com/select/faq/cpc.html#cpc4
| 2:04 pm on Feb 24, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>>You either accept that your ad doesn't get shown for that
>>keyword in that country, or agree to pay the minimum for
>>ALL of the keywords in the pool you have.
You don't have to do that. You can set your max bid at a lower rate and then next to the higher prices keyword (on your keyword list) you can use **.xx (.xx being your higher price) to set the price you would like for that one keyword. Supposedly, though I haven't used it, you can do the same to send a person to another page for that one keyword rather than the default you have set up for the whole ad. It's called powerposting.
For more info, go here:
| 6:51 pm on Feb 24, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Powerpost is good, when you're setting it up, but how do you go about editing the CPC for that keyword later on?
(Edit: On an individual keyword basis)
| 7:08 pm on Feb 24, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>>> how do you go about editing the CPC for that keyword later on?
Just retrace the steps you took while creating the campaign and you will get back to the same screen where you entered those keywords.
- Login to your account and click on View/Edit Campaigns
- Select Modify Price or Keywords for the AdGroup
- Click on Change Keywords
You will be back in the keyword entry field. Make your changes and hit UPDATE KEYWORD LIST.
| 8:32 pm on Feb 24, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I did say that you could :
|Either you sift the ads into a sort of VIP lounge, or you use the new facility of setting a different price for your keyword in the same group. |
It's not that you can't do it, it's just when you are trying to ascertain the value for keywords it's easier when they are seperate (just my opinion).
| 9:42 pm on Feb 28, 2003 (gmt 0)|
This is my first day using these forums - very helpful - I hope I'm not going over something covered in another thread. I wanted to add a mistake to avoid with adwords from my own experience. I manage an adwords campaign for a west coast client and we started with a low daily budget, so low in fact that he could never see any of his listings.
The results spoke for themselves in terms of sales generated and ROI, but if I were to do it again, I would use a much narrower list of keywords which would not exhaust the budget so that while working with my client on the phone, he could actually see what he was paying for. (side note - because results were good budget was increased and his campaign now usually makes it to the end of the day)
So how to concisely state the mistake? Don't set your budget/keywords in such a way that you max your daily budget before client's start of business.
| 10:51 pm on Feb 28, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Good post joemann, i'll do just that.
And welcome to this board. :-D