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Is it a good idea to use Google's optimization team?
tomld2




msg:1110276
 7:17 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

I am wondering if it's a good idea to use Google's adwords optimization team to improve our campaigns? Any pros or cons?

Thanks
Tom

 

skibum




msg:1110277
 7:52 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

If you are not happy with the performance of your campaign, then definitely take take a look at what they propose. Implement the suggestions if you really think it will work better than what you have now.

If you test it and it works better, go with it. If it doesn't work better don't stick with it. A consultant may know AdWords better than you but you probably know your business better than any AdWords or agency consultant.

eWhisper




msg:1110278
 10:23 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

The optimization team has three advantages that you don't have:

1. Access to real numbers and misspellings with good search volume.
2. Ability to write creatives that you'd get disapproved for.
3. Have seen hundreds (thousands) of accounts and what works/doesn't work.

What you also get is the ability to see how someone else would set up the account and their ideas for it - which can spark ideas for you in what other techniques to try.

skibum




msg:1110279
 7:48 pm on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

How is it that Google can write creative that would be disapproved if the person submitted it directly?

bears5122




msg:1110280
 9:14 pm on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think the "write creatives that would otherwise get disapproved" is Google's little lie. I've seen their work in that aspect and must say that the ads they write are very broad and I can't imagine would pose a problem getting approved. This may be a factor of the adwords rep receiving a commission bonus for every account they get to use their keywords. Overture reps work on this structure.

I think they are good for advice though I wouldn't count on them. They usually do a good job of getting mispellings, etc.

skibum




msg:1110281
 9:31 pm on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

They definitely have some insight into what works/doesn't work as far as CTR and conversion, but would imagine not to many of the big dogs use the Google conversion tracker & that is where the real strategy, creative & optimization comes in.

eWhisper




msg:1110282
 10:25 pm on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've seen two ads that the optimization team wrote that I tried to duplicate exactly in another adgroup, and the ads were disapproved. One was disapproved for formatting reasons (the title was too long, so the rep skipped a space between the words - but it made sense), the other was for 'excessive repition' of keywords.

I've also seen the no space formatting issue happen to a couple other accounts as well.

ddogg




msg:1110283
 7:23 am on Sep 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Heh, one would think Google of all people could come up with new keywords and such for your campaigns, but believe me, they can't. I had them look at my account and they gave me nada. 3 weeks later I discovered a *lot* of new keywords. Doubled my clicks.

The best thing is to spend time researching and add keywords yourself.

anallawalla




msg:1110284
 9:42 am on Sep 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

I am currently evaluating this with an open mind. Over two years we have run through 9000 keywords, so we are happy to consider any new suggestions.

One thing to watch out for is that the suggestions are made at the max bid price for an ad group, so you need to eyeball them before accepting.

skibum




msg:1110285
 7:17 pm on Sep 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

You can often cut the bid prices substantially and you can also improve on the creative. It takes more work to get really granular but is often worth it for a long term campaign.

edit_g




msg:1110286
 12:22 am on Sep 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think the creative optimiser guys and gals at Google can sometimes give you some great ideas, new keywords and pick up on small stuff that you may have left in the rush. With the creatives they produce, just test them - if they work better than your current ones, great, if they don't, ok.

Also, they may be thinking of what works in terms of bettering your CTR whereas you might be thinking about what works in terms of site conversion - these two goals aren't always the same.

webpundit




msg:1110287
 3:16 pm on Sep 27, 2004 (gmt 0)


At the risk of sounding like and ignoramus, I confess I've never heard about the "Google optimization team." And here I thought I knew everything I needed to know about Google! Can you point me to where I might find more information on this very intriguing service?

Thanks!

AdWordsAdvisor




msg:1110288
 7:23 pm on Sep 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've noticed a few points in this thread that I wanted to jump in on, and clarify.

1. Access to real numbers and misspellings with good search volume.
2. Ability to write creatives that you'd get disapproved for.
3. Have seen hundreds (thousands) of accounts and what works/doesn't work.

1. It is worth saying that Optimizers do not, and will not, access other accounts in order to find successful keywords, misspellings, negatives, ad copy, and so forth. The hard work and research of competing advertisers is honored and protected, and is never 'consulted' during the optimization process.

2. This sounds more like a mistake than a pulling of the Editorial strings. Optimizers must follow the same Editorial Guidelines as everyone else. And, as humans, may make the occasional mistake.

3. Exactly! This is what it really boils down to, IMO.

This may be a factor of the adwords rep receiving a commission bonus for every account they get to use their keywords. Overture reps work on this structure.

Optimizers are folks who've worked with AdWords for quite some time, and who have demonstrated both interest and expertise. There are no commissions of any kind involved.

I've seen two ads that the optimization team wrote that I tried to duplicate exactly...(one) was for 'excessive repition' of keywords.

Probably a mistake, as mentioned above. Or, I wonder if this was quite some time ago? I ask because the rules for repetition were relaxed months and months ago, as many of you will have no doubt noticed.

Also, they may be thinking of what works in terms of bettering your CTR whereas you might be thinking about what works in terms of site conversion - these two goals aren't always the same.

A very good point. Optimizations are really meant to be an informed jumping-off point, quite often for advertisers who are having difficulty getting started on the right foot. Once put into motion, it is always wise to monitor the real world results of the optimization - particularly for ROI as edit_g suggests.

AWA

wheel




msg:1110289
 3:56 am on Sep 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think the pros would be a second set of experienced eyes looking at your campaign.

No real cons, other than you shouldn't be dependent on someone else for your campaign. As AWA notes, they don't have any secret weapons other than experience - experience you can readily gain yourself by reading posts here and trying things.

I've had two reviews and both times I got what I already knew - try different creatives, etc etc. Their specific suggestions actually did little to change anything, what worked is following the basics that i"ve learned on this site.

lysglimt




msg:1110290
 1:39 pm on Oct 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have been interested in using the Google optimization team but I read somewhere that you needed a minimum budget of USD 10 000 to qualify for it.

Robsp




msg:1110291
 3:42 pm on Oct 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

lysglimt,

This depends on where you are located. In Europe they will help you if your revenue is considerable less (you'll have to inform yourself about what their limit is).

At the risk of repeating myself you can also contact a PPC service company for a second opinion. They are not linked to Google and can be used for any size campaign.

We do this kind of thing all the time. <end pitch> :)

RonnieG




msg:1110292
 4:34 pm on Oct 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Re skibum's post: "They definitely have some insight into what works/doesn't work as far as CTR and conversion, but would imagine not to many of the big dogs use the Google conversion tracker & that is where the real strategy, creative & optimization comes in."

Could the reluctance of "the big dogs" to use conversion tracking be because they are probably more aware than most of us newbies to AdWords that conversion tracking kills ad headlines and makes them non-clickable on PCs running ad blocker software?

Re: [webmasterworld.com...]

One has to wonder if G's optimization revenues would suffer greatly if this problem, which I have been told has been known to G for a long time, was ever fixed?

irish_john




msg:1110293
 5:30 pm on Oct 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have a brochure from google that says using the google optimization team can improve your ctr by upto 50%.

Robsp




msg:1110294
 5:41 pm on Oct 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Getting CTR up with 50% is no big deal. Getting conversions up with 50% is another story....

Seattle_SEM




msg:1110295
 4:39 pm on Oct 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yes the fundamential problem with Google's optimization services is that their teams are tasked and evaluated by getting more money out of you, the marketer. The easiest way for them to do this is to get you more clicks from your existing terms, so this is where they will focus.

As has been stated, CTR is not ROI. CTR does not help the marketer, nor the end user, IMHO, the only one it helps is Google.

anallawalla




msg:1110296
 12:04 am on Oct 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

The jury is still out here. We've added 30-40 suggested terms but at low bids, rather than the suggested default high bids. I have been monitoring their ranking and raising them, but no conversions from them so far.

Yes the fundamential problem with Google's optimization services is that their teams are tasked and evaluated by getting more money out of you, the marketer.

Isn't that business? :) I like receiving suggestions from the PPCSE rep - I don't have to accept them.

As has been stated, CTR is not ROI. CTR does not help the marketer, nor the end user, IMHO, the only one it helps is Google.

All the same, high CTR is valuable to the marketer in showing that the creative is working. This can be because it is misleading - you may be misleading the clicker without realising it. If the ad is not misleading, the landing page might be poor and needs your attention.

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