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Are misspells, plurals, etc... treated as separate keywords?
dylan212

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 6:53 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hello

This may be a simple question to many but I could not find the answer on Google Adwords support section but are misspells, plurals, capitalizations, apostrophes, etc... considered unique keywords in Adwords?

For example, should I submit all of the keywords below separately or does Google know what I mean with keyword #1 and will show my ad with others regardless, thus not necessary to submit 2-5:

1. gourmet restaurant
2. gourmet restaurants (plural)
3. gourmet restaurant's (apostrophe)
4. Gourmet Restaurants (capitalization)
5. gourment restarants (misspelled)

thanks in advance ;)

 

eWhisper

WebmasterWorld Administrator ewhisper us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 7:08 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

For broad matching, google is generally pretty good about plurals and misspellings.

For phrase and exact matches, you need to bid on the misspellings & plurals, however, upper & lower case, and punctuations don't matter.

FromRocky

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 7:12 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

All are different except 2 & 4 are the same. You should submit 1, 2 (or 4), 3 & 5 separately. However, 3 is a broadmatch of 1.

When someone searches "gourmet restaurant's", "gourmet restaurant" might show up at a lower ad position. The ad position will be:
1. gourmet restaurant's
2. Gourmet Restaurant
3. gourmet restaurant

eWhisper

WebmasterWorld Administrator ewhisper us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 7:28 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

If I bid on:
"custom widget" and
[custom widget]

these searces will trigger the ad:

custom widget
custo'm widget
custom widget'
cu/stom widget
custom wi?dget

Now, for some reason
cu.stom widget isn't triggered, so its only some punctuation, but it's most of them

I don't think punctuation makes a difference in ad text, I think overall its ignored.

nyet

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 7:30 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

punctuations don't matter.

I'll beg to differ.

We have bid on words in the form:

women
womens
women's
womens'

all have separate CTR, CPC etc. It can matter especially if your competitior does not think to break them out.

edit: added 'womens'

[edited by: nyet at 7:33 pm (utc) on June 23, 2004]

dylan212

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 7:31 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

hmmmm...

do you two (eWhisper and FromRocky) have diff views on this issue?

Let's assume I only do Broad Matching...

eWhisper believes I should submit #1 (gourmet restaurant) and will cover me for #2-5.

FromRocky believes I should submit 1, 2(or 4), 5. You mentioned that #3 would show up in results for #1.

Since your responses are diff I am assuming this was not such a simple question afterall :)

dylan212

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 7:35 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

NYET -

We have bid on words in the form:

women
womens
women's
womens'

were these all submitted as Broad, Phrase, or Exact?

eWhisper

WebmasterWorld Administrator ewhisper us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 7:37 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

I was stating how broad matching vs phrase/exact matching works.

If you should bid on them is a totally different matter.

If the volume is there, then seperating them out can make a difference - I was answering the origional question if they were considered unique keywords.

If the volume for them is very small, then creating punctuation differences for hundreds of keywords most likely isn't worth yoru time. If they have large search volumes, then bidding seperately can make a difference.

mquarles

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 7:44 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

While we're looking at this, is

[women's]

treated the same as

[women s]

in Adwords? For the sake of argument, assume exact match as shown, but if they're different in exact match, help on broad and phrase match would be useful as well.

MQ

nyet

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 7:44 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

For phrase and exact matches, you need to bid on the misspellings & plurals, however, upper & lower case, and punctuations don't matter.

Maybe I am incorrect. It is my understanding from experience that with phrase and exact match punctuation *does* matter.

[womans] will *not* match the search on: woman's

Dylan212,
on nearly all of our terms we bid on all 3 varriations. An excell spreadsheet can spit these out for you.

is

[women's]

treated the same as

[women s]

in my experience ( i just tested it with our campaings) - no.

eWhisper

WebmasterWorld Administrator ewhisper us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 7:50 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

While we're looking at this, is
[women's]

treated the same as

[women s]

I'm under the impression that the space between words is what designates it as a new keyword (I could be wrong on this). Thats why putting a / or? or ' in the middle of a keyword doesn't make it a new keyword as that symbol is completely ignored by the system.

I just did a search for a phrase matched keyword and wi?/'dget design showed for that keyword phrase.

eWhisper

WebmasterWorld Administrator ewhisper us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 7:52 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think AWA is going to read this thread and go talk to the man behind the curtain before giving a straight answer.

dylan212

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 7:59 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

NYET,

Dylan212,
on nearly all of our terms we bid on all 3 varriations. An excell spreadsheet can spit these out for you.

You say you bid on all 3 variations. Do you bid on all 3 in the same ad group or do you create a separate ad group for Broad, Phrase, Exact? For example, within the same ad group called 'Blue Widget' would you bid:

blue widget
[blue widget]
"blue widget"

nyet

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 8:00 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

okay I just did some testing with words which do not appear anywhere else in our campaign. I searched multiple times (10 each time). I first made sure the target word DID generate an ad consistantly. Used a 4xfunded campaign with 100% ad delivery.

[womens shoes] did not match search on : women's shoes

"womens shoes" did not match search on : women's shoes

I also used arcane but real words (not "womens" or "shoes" and was only ad displayed.

i probably should not shoot my mouth off, cause 'sure-as-shootin' I am probably telling our competition how to do this.

[edited by: nyet at 8:10 pm (utc) on June 23, 2004]

nyet

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 8:03 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Dylan212, we have them in the same adgroups. but you will have to determine if this is the best course for you.

dylan212

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 8:05 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

thanks nyet

nyet

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 8:08 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

The key is that some Broadmatches would 'rely' on the Exacts and Phrases to maintain suitable CTR.

eWhisper

WebmasterWorld Administrator ewhisper us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 8:15 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Nyet,

I'm at a total loss for this behavoir. I just checked the account I was using to generate impressions, and there isn't a single broad matched keyword in the entire account (Thought it might be possible for the 'content match' campaign to have one), but none at all. Everything is phrase/exact matched.

Yet, the punctuation marks I'm using seem to be ignored. In fact, when I click on the 'advanced preferences' those punctuation marks don't even show up in the 'all the words' category - they show up as spaces.

So, no wid?/'get has become wid get, and when I do a search again (without changing anything), the ad I was seeing no longer displays as there are now spaces in the search terms instead of ignored punctuation marks.

However, when I goto search.aol.com, and input the exact same query (wi?'/dget), no ads show up at all, not even the broad matched competitor ads. Almost like G serves a completely different set of matching options between the two search sites.

Think we'll need AWAs input on this one.

dylan212

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 8:20 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

nyet,

on nearly all of our terms we bid on all 3 varriations. An excell spreadsheet can spit these out for you.

how can u do this using excel, i looked in excel help section but could not find how it is done.

thanks

nyet

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 8:23 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

use the 'concatenate' function.

nyet

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 8:26 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

no ads show up at all, not even the broad matched competitor ads

Perhaps the competitors are opting out of the search network and are Google only.

eWhisper

WebmasterWorld Administrator ewhisper us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 8:30 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Perhaps the competitors are opting out of the search network and are Google only

Then their ad wouldn't show with the proper spelling - it was the wi?'dget spellings they didn't show for (as well as us - and that spelling shows on Google's site) - but for proper spellings, the ads do display on AOL's site.

AdWordsAdvisor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member adwordsadvisor us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 11:31 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think AWA is going to read this thread and go talk to the man behind the curtain before giving a straight answer.

Almost completely correct there eWhisper. In reality though, it'll would be more like this:

I think AWA is going to wait for his head to stop spinning read this thread another two or three times and go talk to the man behind the curtain before giving a straight answer.

Which I'll certainly do, although it'll have to be tomorrow.

;) AWA

mquarles

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 1:36 pm on Jun 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

AWA,

One other question. Are these two terms the same?

[women's shoes]
['women's shoes']

And are these two the same?

women's shoes
'women's shoes'

Thanks!

MQ

AdWordsAdvisor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member adwordsadvisor us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 1:36 am on Jun 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

OK, I hate to say it, but I haven't been able to touch bases with the right folks behind the curtain. It's been an especially busy day.

I haven't forgotten though, and will post when I know more.

AWA

howiejs

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 4:38 am on Jun 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have been trying to figure out the broad match issues with Google -- here is their reply:

Because you have [widget], "widget" and 'widget' in your keyword list, our system must decide which keyword gets the impression for each query. The reason that the broad match term 'widget' is not getting
impressions is that the phrase match and exact match are getting all of the impressions for searches that include the keyword 'widget.' The system creates a hierarchy, in which broad matches are trumped by phrase
matches, which are trumped by exact matches.

Normally, the only way for the broad match to accrue impressions is on expanded match queries. Right now, a search on 'widget company' will give "widget" gets the impression. If you remove "widget," then the broad match 'widget' will get the impressions for searches such as these.

eWhisper

WebmasterWorld Administrator ewhisper us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 5:31 pm on Jun 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

howiejs,

Posts 10 & 11 in this thread:
[webmasterworld.com...]

hopefully will shed some light on that question.

AdWordsAdvisor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member adwordsadvisor us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 2:37 am on Jun 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Well, here it is the end of the day, and I haven't been able to connect with the right folks for a definitive answer to the various questions in this thread. I actually haven't encountered this exact line of questioning in over two years of working with advertisers every single day. The WebmasterWorld team really does go in for the nitty gritty details!

In any case, earlier today, I decided to create a new campaign and Ad Group in my own account and experiment a bit. Until I can get the whole story, this may be a good thing for those who are really interested to do on their own.

I started with these keywords, all as broad match:

'friends'
frie nds
frie'nds
frie/nds
friend
friend s
friend's
friends
friends'

BTW, the keywords 'friend' and 'friends' are so frequently searched that this list required a $650.00 daily budget, which I went with so I could see it the ad all the time. I sure hope I remembered to pause it after testing!

Searching on any of these keywords did show my ads. No surprise there. Then I experimented with different punctuation and spacing in my searches. So far I'm not really able to pinpoint a hard and fast rule. But I had to knock off sort of early in order to do my 'real job' for awhile - and then to start working on the Advertiser Feedback summary I send out each Friday.

In any case, I'll keep trying to get a definitive answer and post again. As I mentioned in another post, I'll be out of the office on Monday - and not posting again until Tuesday.

So, until then,

AWA

dylan212

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 10:10 pm on Jun 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi AWA

Any progress or interesting findings with the experiment you are running? I appreciate you taking the time to do this, very good of ya.

AdWordsAdvisor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member adwordsadvisor us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2942 posted 10:38 pm on Jun 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

Any progress or interesting findings with the experiment you are running? I appreciate you taking the time to do this, very good of ya.

dylan212, I'm sorry to say I've had to put this on the back burner for a bit, due to my 'day job' being on the busy side of late. So no progress to report. My apologies!

I'll try to get to it again (and to corner the right folks) when things slow down somewhat. But in the meantime, I encourage experimentation amongst those who are really curious. :)

AWA

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