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Is it stealing?
spammer holds #1 spot while I pay
Lawd Have Mercy

10+ Year Member

Msg#: 206 posted 2:32 pm on Dec 11, 2002 (gmt 0)


I have to vent. On 3 of my kws the #1 (non paying) position is held by a spammer. He uses hidden text, cloaking, kw stuffing, differnt URLS leading to the same page etc. I spent a long time in deciding whether to call Google's attention to this. I finally went to the Google site and told them all that I found. At that time they were #5.

After the dance they became #1 (better stuffingI suppose). I again turned them in. I realized while I was paying $$$$$ to be noticed they cheated and got my business. That was 2 weeks ago.

Yesterday, they still maintained their #1 position on all 3 kw. So I decided to email adwords. Their response was less then helpful (gave me instructions on how to RAISE my maximum CPC).

Is this stealing? Is there any recourse except taking my money elsewhere. Do Google guidelines mean nothing? Where is the "level" playing field. Is life fair? Is there a Santa Clause

Suggestions, ideas, advice?

Happy Holidays,




WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

Msg#: 206 posted 2:42 pm on Dec 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

You are using adwords and "they" are listed in the regular results right? What's the difference in having a non-spammy site and a spammy one sitting at #1. Either way, every site listed in the regular results are going to be in direct competition with you so I don't see them as stealing your adwords traffic.

Lawd Have Mercy

10+ Year Member

Msg#: 206 posted 3:01 pm on Dec 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

I guess maybe this is why I am having so much trouble. I can't seem to explain it correctly.

I pay for the keywords. They don't. They break all of Googles rules on site guidelines to get that #1 position, that they don't pay for. I could be #1 and not pay a cent if I did what they do. I pay and am honest. They don't pay and they cheat.

Does that make more sense?



WebmasterWorld Senior Member macguru us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

Msg#: 206 posted 3:05 pm on Dec 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

The reply you got from Google was probably from their nice autoresponder, a bot.

Here is the magic recipe for Google :

Write the keywords you dont want to pay for, here and there on page.
Get links from other sites with those words in anchor text.

Do better than them at it without cheating.
Feel proud, and Happy Hollidays to you too.


WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

Msg#: 206 posted 3:10 pm on Dec 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

Go to Spam Report [google.com] and report them. Keep it short and be concise about what they are doing. Show them where to look for the problem. Mention WebmasterWorld and GoogleGuy. Then wait until after the next update or two and see if it did any good.

Adwords has nothing to do with spam reporting.


WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

Msg#: 206 posted 3:21 pm on Dec 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

They are free listings, you are in the paid section. The two sections are always displayed next to each other. No matter what, there will always be relevant pages displayed next to your paid adwords ads. Who is in the free listings should not matter.

I personally don't like the idea of reporting them. Reporting them may get them banned, and then someone else does the same thing to take their place. A better approach is to study their method, think up a way to beat it, and go make a site of your own to grab the free listings. If Google doesn't get their site, you have the same chances of slipping through the spam-report cracks. Wouldn't it be great to be on the free AND paid listings?

By the way, their stuff might not have been free. Instead of paying Google, they might be paying an SEO.


WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

Msg#: 206 posted 3:29 pm on Dec 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

This has been a frequent topic and complaint here, with pretty much one or two people posting about this every day.

It's a bit disturbing, as I mentioned in a similar post yesterday, that these types of web sites are making it in to the database in the first place.

Having a database that relies on catching cheaters after they are in the database and are scoring high for weeks on end would logically encourage throw-away domain spammers.


10+ Year Member

Msg#: 206 posted 3:33 pm on Dec 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

Lawd Have Mercy, I can see how this bothers you, spam also bothers webmasters that work within the known guidelines to achieve high rankings. They pay not by $ by often by much hard work, research and diligence.


WebmasterWorld Senior Member korkus2000 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

Msg#: 206 posted 3:38 pm on Dec 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

Can you honestly say that the site that is at number 1 is hurting the user, because that should be Google's #1 concern. Is there information there that would satisfy the needs of someone who types in that phrase? I think that some people are upset because these other sites are getting the traffic besides their own. Thats what adwords is for.

If the site is off topic for the query then thats a problem, but if it is a site that has good content the user will find helpful then it is not effecting google's users.

Google should be concerned with finding relevent information for the query. If that is done then they have done their job.

I try to run a clean SEO campaign with my sites. I feel that at some point the tricks will be booted out of the database along with the domains. I encourage everyone to do the same, but expecting Google to ban sites I think is wrong. Like martinibuster, I would rather Google work on the algo to never index the page in the first place.


WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

Msg#: 206 posted 5:01 pm on Dec 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

From WebmasterWorld forum TOS

Off Topic:
SPAM reporting issues.

If you have spam to report, please report it to Google. We are not the Google spam reporting system or the place to "shop the competition" knowing that Google techs may read it. Posting someone elses url is no different than violating them by posting their name and address. That includes posting of Google search terms.

For that same reason: please No site review requests or site review questions for Google techs.

For spam reporting, use searchquality@google.com. Be very brief in your email with Google. Report both the actual search keywords and explain the problem briefly.

cyril kearney

10+ Year Member

Msg#: 206 posted 5:05 pm on Dec 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

I am having trouble understanding your point of view. You have paid for adwords and are listed properly.

The other company has optimized his site to become #1 in the unpaid section. You have not optimized your site so he has a better position in the unpaid section than you.

Both of you are manipulating positions. You are paying to do it and he is doing the work to do it without paying. I think both of you or neither of you are spammers depending on the definition of spam you want to use.

I don't think you hold the moral high ground on this issue. He isn't interferring with your business. If Google santions him, you will be impacting his business.

For what reason? You want to get the customers he is getting now. Sounds kind of cut-throat to me.

I think that you should look to your "offer" on your site because sites below you in the listings are getting the business rather than you.


WebmasterWorld Senior Member nffc us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

Msg#: 206 posted 5:08 pm on Dec 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

We are not the Google spam reporting system

Thank you Liane.

Thread closed.

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