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This 66 message thread spans 3 pages: 66 ( [1] 2 3 > >     
This New Broad Matching "Feature".....
Any initial reactions? More high quality traffic or just junk traffic?

 4:02 am on Oct 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

It hasn't been up for long but does anyone have any thoughts on this new broad matching "feature"?

So far here its just resulted in a lot more traffic and expense that doesn't convert so switched everything to phrase match.

It would be nice if the option was still there to keep the old matching in place while being able to see the potential broad matches without automatically getting them or having to put tons of negatives on everything.



 8:52 am on Oct 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

we had our worst day in a long time from adwords clicks. no conversions!

looks like i'm going to go back to a lot of exact word/phrase matches to filter out the junk.


[edited by: cayenne at 10:50 am (utc) on Oct. 10, 2003]


 10:28 am on Oct 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

Lots of very bad/completely inappropriate matches - this system basically highlights the fact that a number of people don't read the ads before clicking through and also that Google has a long way to go with theming.

For anyone currently using broad matching, I'd seriously recommend checking stats asap.


 12:23 pm on Oct 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>> looks like i'm going to go back to a lot of exact word/phrase matches to filter out the junk

A better way to counter the expanded broad matching feature is to use negatives (rather than using exact/phrase). Plug in your main keyword into the new keyword suggestion tool and keep an eye on the right hand side for keywords under "expanded broad matches".

If you see an irrelevant keyword, just put that under your negative list. If you see a fairly relevant keyword, create a new adgroup for that keyword with its own unique ad copy.

Changing all keywords to phrase/exact matching may be the easy way out but you will lose out on a lot of traffic. The above procedure maybe time consuming but it is worth it.


 1:36 pm on Oct 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm not sure the negative matching would apply across the board - many of the matches I've had for the broad terms are not shown in the suggestion tool and are so unrelated, they could not possibly be guessed.


 3:37 pm on Oct 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

I hate Broad Matching.

I used to have a bunch of keywords/keyphrases that had maybe 4 or 5 people showing up on Adwords, now, suddently there are 20 or so showing and my, relevant and very targeted, ads are nowhere to be found.

By biggest problem with it, is not where my ads are going to be shown, but where other people's ads are showing up.

Basically Google is rewarding people that don't know how to write and target ads, of course, that means a lot more money for Google's coffers.

[edited by: Shak at 12:49 pm (utc) on Oct. 17, 2003]
[edit reason] language please :) [/edit]


 3:58 pm on Oct 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

I added almost 200 negative keywords to all my campaigns before this started. I even ran every single term through the keyword suggestion tool to find random negative keywords I'd not have thought of.

This week has been the lowest CTR I've had outside of the first month I used G and was still working on how to use the system.

I like the old broadmatch, this new one has dropped by CTR by 1.3% for all campaigns combined, not happy...


 4:00 pm on Oct 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

Basically Google is rewarding people that don't know how to write and target ads, of course, that means a lot more money for Google's coffers - you have to fatten the pig before the big feast (read IPO).


I completely agree. Google is rewarding the lowest common denominator and ignoring those who have strived for relevance.

I had one highly targeted keyword go from an average position of 2.5 a couple of days ago to 22.0 today. There was only four ads showing on Wednesday. Is this the best for the customer? Talk about oversaturation.

I wonder how long it will take before Google starts weeding through and disabling the irrelevant ads? Or how long will it take advertisers to begin deleting irrevelant keywords or adding negative keywords - like many deleted the content targeted option (AdSense) when it came out?

It feels like Google AdWords has turned into Overture in the period of a day - and that is not necessarily a good thing.



 4:29 pm on Oct 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

This is far worse than I could have imagined!

Competition for all your keyword bids has just increased by a factor of at least 5. For one of my best-performing ads, what used to be a top 3 position on the first page is now 7th on the second page. And they're charging a higher CPC for the privilege! This is ridiculous.

Instead of rewarding highly targeted, exact match terms used by advertisers that have spent time & effort researching & narrowing down their keyword terms, you're now competing with every tom-dick-and-harry that happens to be using broad match.

For those of you that thought you'd be protected by using only phrase & exact matching options (myself included), think again. With the expanded broad match option now active, your average CPC is going to skyrocket!

I am not a happy punter. :(


 7:09 pm on Oct 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

I wonder when the minimum CTR will go to 1%.

This will help keep the tom, dick, & harrys at bay.

Thanks vibgyor i'll give your suggestion a try.



 1:15 am on Oct 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

This really stinks. Expanded matching is supposedly intended to increase relevance, but it decreases it by showing ads for keywords that may or may not be appropriate.

I converted my account to exact matching, but my average position and CTR have gone way down. The reason: my competitors' ads (which are no longer relevant to their sites) are being shown above mine (which are).



 6:54 am on Oct 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

My experiences are quite different. On a global campaign with only exact matches both CTR, CPC and positions stayed unchanged. There was a slight traffic dip when they switched it on but everything is back to normal again.

My (local language) broad matched campaigns (with lots of negative matches) have gone down in clicks with about 20% mainly because the average position dropped a little.

I guess it is still a matter of exact matches and writing very targetted and distinct ad text, something that your typical dick and harry can't do anyway.


 6:00 pm on Oct 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

Has Google expanded matching on on the phrase match as well to include terms deemed to be relevant? Even after switching everything to phrase, traffic is still substantially higher and not converting like it did before the introduction of broad match..


 6:27 pm on Oct 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

not converting

Bingo. It's pretty clear they're ticking off their users, incrementally.

I'm sitting here making changes, trying to guess how the site will react, and it's so unpredictable and frustrating. I've got CTR's of 5.0% that aren't getting the impressions they got before. Phooey.


 8:25 pm on Oct 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

I just emailed Adwords support and paused all my campaigns until they get the wrinkles ironed out with this new system. During the 2-3 days they've had this program in place my conversions have tanked, CTR tanked... even with changing everything back to the old phrase matching that everything use to be.

The implications of the Broad Matching are less than desirable even if you aren't using the feature.

Google is becoming more and more like Overture/etc everyday... so much for being different.


 6:53 am on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

I just looked at the broad matches suggested for my keywords. I have a site that sells porcelain angel figurines, so I am buying keyword "angel gifts".

The suggested 'broad match' is 'Buffy gifts'!
Sure, I can see how they make the association, since "Angel" and "Buffy" are related shows. However, it is totally useless for me to get a visitor from 'buffy' keyword, since I have no items at all on the subject!



 7:49 am on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

My costs for AdWords have dropped by about 60% based on the fact the broad match feature has relegated my ads to the 2nd page. I still have my 2% ctr , but not many make it to the second page. I refuse to jack up my cpc to match the irrelevant ads. I have taken the money from my AdWords budget and hired a professional seo.

>>>>>AdWords has turned into Overture in the period of a day<<<<<

Tropical Island

 10:35 am on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

Everybody keep in mind that for many advetisers there is a huge glitch in the system. Many extensions for the broad match are not showing at all.

See [webmasterworld.com...] .

Until this glitch is fixed we can't really make decisions on what to do with our search terms.


 12:02 pm on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

Is this what Google call looking out for there loyal advertisers or are they getting greedy?
We currently have 17'000 keywords running on adwords and we have spent months building the CTR up on each of these keywords.
Then Google decide and give one weeks notice that they are going to deliver all our adverts to irrelevant searches.
This is proven by our hard earned CTR falling like a brick. On this amount of keywords it is not practicle or achievable to do negative keywords for 17'000 keywords. So the only alternative for us is to use phrase match. We now have this on but many of our adgroups are not running as our months of hard earned CTR is just wiped out because we choose to opt out of broad match which was clearly not working for us.
We spend a six figure income with G each year and I think it's outrageous what has gone on with this much notice. What happened to consulting your best clients before making massive changes?
I think it's time to expand our advertising efforts with other PPC's.


 12:09 pm on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

Adding to that.. Google if you read these forums, I think to make a relevance change as big as this you must at least look at the minimum CTR.


 3:01 pm on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

A good tradesman, never, blames his tools

it just became fun.



 3:39 pm on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

SHAK - I'm not doubting that I'm a goog tradesman. Results speak my friend.

I'm simply expressing my opinion to a change that I think should have been at least discussed and thought through better.

Example: Why did advertisers have to forfeit hard earned CTR?
This could have been easily avoided by introducing a new match style: Extra-Broad Match or something like.


 3:39 pm on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

> A good tradesman never blames his tools

Unless someone changes the rules & the tool breaks.

It just became time-consuming.


 4:03 pm on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

its their equipment and they can do what they like!


(just making it a bit interesting, rather than agreeing with all of you)


 4:08 pm on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

Where is GoogleGuy to talk with us "bad" tradesmen?


 4:14 pm on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

I refuse to jack up my cpc to match the irrelevant ads. I have taken the money from my AdWords budget and hired a professional seo.

Thats the right Move IMHO. :)



 4:18 pm on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

Where is GoogleGuy...

It think this is AWA's territory. But it's Sunday morning out here.

I'm going out for pancakes, and I betcha' AWA is doing something similar- if AWA is awake.


 5:48 pm on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

OK. We're one of the biggest advertisers on Google. Or so they tell us. Well, we definately spend several hunderd thousand a year.

We got a week's notice, or not even, since no email came, and we only saw the changeover if we logged in.

Our CTR has tanked a bit
More importantly, our ROI has tanked alot, and in fact, for google adwords, is in serious negative territoy.

We'd like to be able to get in and pause the campaigns before they eat up too much money.

And guess, what? Adwords login gives a DNS error.

When we talk to our rep next, she/he better be telling us something that will make us happy.

Yeah google adwords makes us 75% of our traffic. But only 20-25% of our revenue. Get the picture?

[edited by: Shak at 5:51 pm (utc) on Oct. 12, 2003]
[edit reason] Language Timothy, please! [/edit]


 6:41 pm on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

I simply want to add my voice to this anti-expanded broad matching manifestation. I was one of the first to criticise it (in another thread) and I still believe that this is the most stupid thing Google has done. Please please please, remove expanded broad matching, or at least make it optional.


 6:50 pm on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

Question: Does using exact phrase matches negate broad matching? That is, if I use [red widgets] instead of "red widgets" am I safe from broad matching (which is wrecking my CTR)? It appears that adwords will not broad match [search terms in brackets] because no broad matches show up in the broad match checker but I wanted to be sure.


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