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This 48 message thread spans 2 pages: 48 ( [1] 2 > >     
Google rolls out keyword conversion tool
WebWalla

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 1:57 pm on Oct 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

[adwords.google.com...]

The conversion tool could help advertisers decide whether to opt out of Google's contextual advertising program, AdSense. Some search engine marketers have complained that keywords served on content pages have much lower conversion rates than those on search pages. AdWords customers are automatically enrolled in AdSense unless they opt out.

Full article from Internetnews.com [internetnews.com]

Will more AdWords advertisers pull out of the AdSense program? At least now the ad publishers will know for certain where their money's coming from.

 

loanuniverse

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 2:11 pm on Oct 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

The tool is very easy to work with, I got the email since I am an adwords advertiser. It works with cookies and the placement of an image in the conversion page.

The conversion page would be the page where you thank the customer for purchasing the product, filling out a request for more information or just the page that you wanted to promote. No need to track your own cookies since Google does it for you.

johannes

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 2:12 pm on Oct 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yes I think more will pull their ads out of content sites, when they use the new tracking system and can see what the conversion is.

keywords served on content pages have much lower conversion rates than those on search pages.

I've found the the conversion for these ads varies a lot depending on which keywords you target. Worst are very broad keywords. For some keywords I have an excellent conversion.

heini

WebmasterWorld Senior Member heini us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 2:12 pm on Oct 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Very useful information - for Google.

dougb

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 2:15 pm on Oct 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

From their FAQ [adwords.google.com]:

Currently, Google can report only conversions for ads shown on Google.com and some of our ad network sites. This means that not all conversions originating from your AdWords ads will be reported. However, your conversion rate, cost-per-conversion, and value / click are adjusted to reflect only those sites from which we can track conversions.

I'm not sure what precisely "some of our ad network sites" includes, but it doesn't sound like it includes AdSense sites yet. I hope they plan to include everything.

This is a really great step forward -- necessary, even. Overture should have done this ages ago. More information makes for a better marketplace in the long term. Except for the people who profit from ignorance...and they don't deserve our tears.

loanuniverse

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 2:15 pm on Oct 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Very useful information - for Google.

And for any webmaster that can not for one reason or another implement an inhouse version to track this.

heini

WebmasterWorld Senior Member heini us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 2:19 pm on Oct 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

>Overture should have done this ages ago
They have done this weeks/months ago. Free for now, paid service later.

dougb

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 2:31 pm on Oct 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

>Overture should have done this ages ago
They have done this weeks/months ago. Free for now, paid service later.

Oops, my mistake. I should pay more attention to Overture. (I stopped taking them seriously after they got in bed with Gator.)

thomasray

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 5:20 pm on Oct 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

I believe Overture's conversion tracking tool only measures conversions for the campaign as a whole, not by each individual search term. This is the real value of Google’s new tool. Much easier to use their java than to create a ton of unique links for each ad unit/search term.

kapow

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 5:55 pm on Oct 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Google say they plan to provide conversion tracking for other systems in future. Do they mean AdSense (AdWords on other sites) or are they planning to track other PPC conversion such as Overture?

donpps

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 7:59 pm on Oct 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Excellent tool. I had previously used Gotoast ( I hope its ok to mention them) for tracking purposes. I guess with OV and Adwords having their own tools..its hasta la vista huh!

Has anyone got any preliminary data on reliability for this tracking tool?

Thanks guys

coolshop

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 1:16 pm on Oct 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

I don't think I understand exactly how to implement this. Say I want to track the dollar figure of the purchase made using their Optional variable thing.

This is the code, where I typed 99.99 for the variable thing (assuming a sale of $99.99). Is this saying that I need to plug in the actual sale amount everywhere in the code I see the 99.99?

<!-- Google Conversion Code -->
<script language="JavaScript">
<!--
google_conversion_id = 1234567899;
google_conversion_language = "en_US";
if (99.99) {
google_conversion_value = 99.99;
}
google_conversion_label = "Purchase";
-->
</script>
<script language="JavaScript" src="https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/conversion.js">
</script>
<noscript>
<a href="https://services.google.com/sitestats/en_US.html" target=_blank>
<img src="https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/conversion/1234567899/?value=99.99&label=Purchase&hl=en">
</a>
</noscript>

mayor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 5:28 pm on Oct 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

InternetNews.com >> As an additional benefit, advertisers can have the value of each conversion sent back to Google and included in their reports.

"Who's there?" asked Grandma.

"Your grandchild, Little Red Riding Hood," replied the wolf, counterfeiting her voice; "who has brought you a keyword conversion tool and a little pot of butter sent you by mother."

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 6:46 pm on Oct 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

Will more AdWords advertisers pull out of the AdSense program? At least now the ad publishers will know for certain where their money's coming from.

That depends on the advertiser, the ads, and how well the ads are doing. Some advertisers are seeing a higher ROI on content sites than on search pages.

A more important question is whether the conversion tool is a harbinger of greater advertiser control and flexibility down the line. Will advertisers be able to select the content sites where they want their ads to appear (e.g., by include or exclude filters like the advertiser-exclusion filters that AdSense publishers currently have)? If not, Google will have trouble selling content ads (and perhaps AdWords in general) to mainstream advertisers who are used to having control over where their ads run.

Robert Charlton

WebmasterWorld Administrator robert_charlton us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 10:02 pm on Oct 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

From the Google faq page...
Why a visible image when everyone else uses an invisible one?

Google has chosen to use a visible Google Site Stats image for the conversation tracking process to make this process apparent to users. Our goal is not to place our brand or promote our company on your web pages; however, we feel that it is important to be honest with and respect the privacy of users being tracked.

Hmmmmmm.... Generally, I respect Google a lot, but does this sound just a little disingenuous? I don't see anything on Google.com alerting us that our searches are being tracked. How is this situation different? I think they're counting on milli-seconds of eyeball exposure here.

The wording of Google's privacy policy with regard to advertisers' data suggests that while they're not tracking you personally, they may be tracking ROI info in the aggregate.

GoToast, Conversion Logic, and other tracking tools don't have this schizzy fox/henhouse situation built into them. Your info is your info.

On the other hand, when the Google tool tracks AdSense clicks, it will be the only tool I can imagine that will be able to do this. I suppose at that point you could say to yourself that if Google doesn't get the ROI info from you, it will get it from other advertisers, so you might as well use the tool.

If you're alone in your keywords, maybe you should skew your Return data low, so they'll see you're losing money on every click and that their minimums are too high. ;)

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 10:20 pm on Oct 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hmmmmmm.... Generally, I respect Google a lot, but does this sound just a little disingenuous? I don't see anything on Google.com alerting us that our searches are being tracked. How is this situation different?

It's a matter of user perception. Tracking searches to build a better search engine is one thing; tracking ad responses to help companies sell more products is another thing altogether.

mansterfred

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 4:08 am on Oct 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yes
Overture has the same tracking software, but it does not work..3 of 3 test orders not picked up as conversions. If I was overture I would pull the product before they loose all the advertisers who are getting poor results..

As for google getting the total ROI picture does it matter? Our site generates the bulk of sales from previous customers. What would the stats really tell Google. They are missing to much information in the total picture to gleen good data.

Tropical Island

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tropical_island us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 10:33 am on Oct 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

For us this new tool will be a great help.

We do not take orders on line - we need someone to send us an e-mail with a request for a quote.

We have set it up so that all of our "money pages" are selected. Now we will be able to track by key word the most effective ones. If some keywords are just being used as general information we can cut them back or make them more exact.

If it works it's great. Time will tell.

rencke

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 1:19 pm on Oct 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

coolshop: I just got my code. What you do in the line

{ google_conversion_value = 99.99; }

is to put the name of the variable that you actually use to display the total amount, e.g. grand_total or whatever, instead of an amount. The same thing has to be done again further down, where your example shows value=99.99, where you would put e.g. value=grand_total (if that is what you call it. The script will pick up the actual amount and show it in the report from Google.

This has to be the best thing since indoor plumbing and I can hardly wait to lay my hands on some really good conversion data.

naturalinstinct

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 1:57 am on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm also confused with the implementation of this.

If you put the variable grand_total in the code how does it know that your grand total is 99.99? Do you have to set it up as a javascript variable in the script tag? If so, how is that accessed from the <noscript> tag?

Personally i have the information in an asp.net variable but the javascript doesn't have access to that either.

Currently google is tracking the number of conversions but i can't get any actual costs, presumably because i have done the same as coolspot and put the value in, not the variable name.

markd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 8:03 am on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

Not to muddy the water, but how can I opt-out of this 'tracking' if I'm a customer making a purchase?

If I can't, does this put Google in contravention of the EU Directive on Privacy and E-Communications due to be law on Dec 11th?

Tropical Island

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tropical_island us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 10:33 am on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

Don't accept the cookie.

redzone

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 3:13 pm on Oct 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

If an advertiser is foolish enough to allow the source for which he/she is making the Ad Spend, have access to "all" their visitor demographics, then they deserve what they get...

There is a "hidden" agenda here, but most can't see the forest, because the trees are in the way.

rencke

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 12:34 pm on Oct 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

naturalinstinct: Here's the code Google created for me (except for the real conversion_id, which has been changed). Total_amount is the name of the variable on the page where the total amount is shown. Whatever is in there, will be picked up by the script and passed on to Adword Statistics, assuming a) that cookies have not been disabled, b) that Java Script has not been disabled (abt 5% of surfers have done that) and c) that not more than 30 days have elapsed from ad-click to purchase. The latter is the really weak point if you - like me - are selling travel services, where the lead time can be several months.

We implemented conversion tracing this afternoon and Google has already added two columns to the Adword Statistics: Conversion rate (%) and Conversion Cost ($). This is on a per keyword basis, per campaign and grand total. They are empty right now, but should contain real figures in a few hours from now.

<!-- Google Conversion Code -->
<script language="JavaScript">
<!--
google_conversion_id = 1234567890;
google_conversion_language = "en_US";
if (total_amount) {
google_conversion_value = total_amount;
}
google_conversion_label = "Purchase";
-->
</script>
<script language="JavaScript" src="https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/conversion.js">
</script>
<noscript>
<a href="https://services.google.com/sitestats/en_US.html" target=_blank>
<img src="https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/conversion/1234567890/?value=total_amount&label=Purchase&hl=en">
</a>
</noscript>

bigjohnt

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 9:27 pm on Oct 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Once again, I'm with Redzone. This is a way that google, overture, or any other "traffic vendor" can very easily justify and therefore raise term costs.

"Hey Mr. Advertiser! You get clicks for .25, and your ad/site converts at a fantastic 3:1, and your product is $100. Well, SURPRISE! Your terms (and everyone in your category!)are now at a minimum of $5!
Thanks for using our conversion tracking system."

There are third party tools and standalone softwares that can do this without giving traffic vendors your viatal information.

Overture and Adwords have been very good to me, but I won't use their tools. Already have a good system.

rich42

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 10:36 pm on Oct 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

First post here... my website's URL is: (just joking)

So what I'm trying to figure out is if that tracking image absolutely has to show up on all the pages that are tracked.

On one site I'd like to use the conversion tool just to see if people browse around past the landing page. I don't mind putting the image on the google landing page (which wouldn't do any good) - but I don't like the idea of littering the entire site with it (which many users visit without going through adwords / google).

I can certainly think of ways to hide the image - but I don't want to get on Google's bad side. They don't seem to explicitly say "don't hide the image" - but they might not bring it up just to avoid giving people the idea.

Thoughts?

-Rich

AdWordsAdvisor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member adwordsadvisor us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 1:42 am on Oct 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hiya Rich42 - thanks for bringing this up.

Google does formally ask that you include the image on the appropriate conversion page(s), and that you not modify, obscure, or reduce it.

The is detailed in the AdWords Terms and Conditions, as Item 4.

I'm guessing that this would be a pretty good time to mention that there is a link at the bottom of every page in your account that takes you to the Terms and Condtions, so that you have EZ access to the info.

It's worth reviewing the Ts & Cs from time to time, as they do evolve. Same for the Editorial Guidelines, as I probably say too often. ;)

redzone

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 4:47 am on Oct 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

BigJohnT:

Though your "end result", increasing "bid costs" are what access to conversion info. will result in, it's the fact that they have access to your conversion data.

Which means if you aren't the "Big Fish" in your pond, bigger fish may have access to your conversion data through their account reps. We all know that money talks, and the larger accounts get "spoon fed"....

I'm not saying they will single out conversion data of individual advertisers, but will group advertisers for individual keywords, that are performing well...

Think about this Everyone! Have you 'ever' seen a PPC engine release "any" enhancement that is "not" geared to make them more money?

Lundorff

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 2:47 pm on Oct 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

I am not going to use it.

1) The image is not wanted in any way.
2) The script loads way to slow. It tripled the loadtime when I tested it.

Rgs
Lundorff

naturalinstinct

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1299 posted 11:11 pm on Oct 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

rencke, thanks for the help but i'm still not getting it i'm afraid.

Hpw does the javascript know what to put in total_cost?

In my page the information is in an asp.net variable how does it get from there to the google javascript?

This 48 message thread spans 2 pages: 48 ( [1] 2 > >
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