| 1:30 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I've read other threads that say "Meta tags are dead", so can those points go away?
Edit: how about keywords in the link text? I found that by having a keyworded phrase in a link, one page went from the bottom of page two, to the middle of page one for that keyword.
[edited by: weisinator at 1:33 pm (utc) on Sep. 10, 2002]
| 1:32 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I think domain name has made a comeback and should get more points. Meta description should also get less points. Link text should be added IMHO.
| 1:37 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
alt: 5 points?
Hmm - sounds a bit high.
the point that this varies from search engine to search engine is probaly pretty obviuos to everyone, so I won't mention it..
| 1:38 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Inbound link text: 10 points.
title: 10 points
domain name: 7 points
large h1-h2 headings: 5 points
first sentence of first paragraph 5 points
path or filename: 4 points
proximity (multi kws): 4
beginning of a sentence 1.5 points
bold or italic text: 1 points
usage in text: 1 point
title attribute: 1 point
alt tag: .5 point
meta descrip: .5 points
meta keywords: .05 point
| 1:50 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
how about size of inbound link text?
| 2:00 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I have never seen any evidence of significant weight being given to the size of inbound link text.
Brett, I think your above scoring is pretty on point. I would give it this:
Inbound link text: 9 points
title: 10 points
domain name: 7 points
large h1-h2 headings: 7 points
first sentence of first paragraph: 6 points
path or filename: 4 points
proximity (multi kws): 5 points
beginning of a sentence: 2 points
bold or italic text: 1 point
usage in text: 3 point
title attribute: .5 point
alt tag: 1 point
meta descrip: 1 point
meta keywords: 1 point
meta title: 1 point
| 2:42 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Can we add this?
first sentence of last paragraph or somewhere in the last paragraph 2 points
I've found that if you balance content from top to bottom, those closing paragraphs have some power!
| 2:48 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I agree with you regarding the end of the page (top and bottom) factors, and it can also help to have a H1,H2,or H3 tag down there as well.
| 2:58 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
>>alt: 5 points?
>> Hmm - sounds a bit high.
Heini - it seems you missed the "." - actually, it's 0.5 point
| 3:01 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I'd double that then, up to 1 full point ;)
| 3:17 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
> I agree with you regarding the end of the page (top and bottom) factors, and it can also help to have a H1,H2,or H3 tag down there as well.
As long as the h tag is followed by at least one full paragraph of content. ;) My belief is that h tags without any copy following them are powerless.
| 4:19 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I don't think the domain name is worthy of a 4 point increase, but I think that the rest is spot on.
| 4:26 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Where does file size fit in (5)?
| 4:28 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Url with kw is really good please trust me and put a dash in it :-)
| 5:21 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I agree, the domain name has a considerable amount of weight put on it.
Also, I haven't seen evidence that you need text after a heading tag at the bottom of the page. Pageone, are you referring to any engine in particular, or across the board? We have seen good things with it.
| 5:22 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Isn't the <title></title> and meta="title" redundant and possibly counterproductive, or do you think that it is slightly helpful?
| 5:25 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I don't think they are redundant.....I always put both of them in.
| 5:41 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Geez, so many WebmasterWorld heavyweights essentially in agreement? You guys are giving away the house and all my voodoo.
Shouldn't this thread be in the members-only section ;)
I'd bump Inbound link text from 9 or 10 points to about 15 points.
| 5:53 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
1) Domain Name - Do you need to use dashes to demark the kw, or as long as it's in there? (joes-cars.com or even joescars.com). What about underscores?
2) File names - same question as 1. Also, what about cars.html - will the extension ruin it?
3) Title attribute - Could someone explain how to use this properly? Just give every HTML tag a title attribute with a kw?
Also, bottom text was mentioned. What about small text at the bottom of the page? Does it matter if it is the same text across every page?
| 5:56 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
> Pageone, are you referring to any engine in particular, or across the board? We have seen good things with it.
I've never used them sitting by themselves. I based my response on proper document structure along with a little bit of research we've gathered after reviewing over 350 websites which were all optimized. ;)
I've had great success with just having one <h1> and proper content structure that I've not traveled down the path of using <h2>'s or <h3>'s in the fashion you describe. I was always under the impression that <h> tags are followed by relevant copy, not sitting at the bottom of a page. The text in that <h> tag may add relevance, but I don't think the fact that it is wrapped in an <h> tag makes the difference. I may be wrong.
|brotherhood of LAN|
| 5:57 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I'm with the hubs and authorities having mucho weight. Those are the least likely areas to be spammed....or be subversive, be it editors or content ;) (not insinuating anything there)
Human edited directories are what the best search engines rely on, so IMHO, any algo that I'd hatch would have something like a quarter of relevance taken into account from a DMOZ like directory and cat structure.
| 6:03 pm on Sep 10, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I think why domain names count a lot even more so with dashes is because the linked text usually has the domain name. Dashes to most engines are just space. So keyword1-keyword2.com will probably have keyword1-keyword2 as the link text which will translate to keyword1 keyword2 to the spider. That will get you very nice link text. :)
File names do count. When someone does a full path link http*//www.keyword1-keyword2.com/keyword3.htm you get keyword3 in the link text. I don't think file extensions matter unless it is a format that cannot be spidered.
Only use the title tag with elements that support the attribute. I don't know off hand which do and which don't. If you use the same text across a site I think you will cancel out their importence. I would mix it up so each page has different chances for different search phrases.
| 11:53 pm on Nov 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
You are all forgeting one very important point that fathom mencioned but noone talked about... the size of the html file...
| 1:58 am on Nov 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
|3) Title attribute - Could someone explain how to use this properly? |
use it on A, LINK, IMG, H1-H3, INPUT, BUTTON, LI
use logically in your document, don't just stuff it everywhere.
Any thoughts on the 'NAME' attribute in anchors?
| 7:42 am on Nov 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I think I'd attribute a good part of domain name effect to inbound link text.
In addition to proximity for multiple keywords, word order can be a big factor.
>>Do you need to use dashes to demark the kw, or as long as it's in there? (joes-cars.com or even joescars.com).<<
Yes, you need the dash or some sort of a delimitor. "joescars" without the dash could be seen, eg, as "joes cars" or "joe scars." The "." between joescars and com is seen as a delimitor on just about all the major engines.
| 8:23 am on Nov 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Another handy spot for the occasional title attribute is <blockquote>.
Sometimes the people you quote just won't put the keywords into their sentences the way you'd like - but you can do a nice, legit patch job with a title attribute.
| 12:23 pm on Nov 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
|As long as the h tag is followed by at least one full paragraph of content. My belief is that h tags without any copy following them are powerless. |
Have done some experimenting here using just Shockwave applets being the only thing on the page and a title.
Didn't produce any significant rankings until a body text (non H-Tag) paragraph was added after the title.
| 5:11 pm on Nov 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I was thinking about the importance of anchor text in incoming links a few months back when Google changed its Algo, now that I see we all agree on its importance it makes me very confirdent. The problem i have at present is this. When I use allinanchor:blue widgets my site shows up on page 2, however in normal serps its a page 5. I use all the tips in Bretts updated list so can't think why this would be. Someone mentioned on another topic that if your position in allinanchor is higher than normal SERPS then the page may not be well optimised. However I ahve done the following
Keyword in beggining of title
First word in paragraph is keyword
Good density of keyword
Keywords once in met desc and meta keywords
What more can I do and is it right to assume that just because my position in allinanchor is higher than normal serps I have done a bad job of optimising?
| 6:35 pm on Nov 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I'm not sure about some tricks you mentioned above. (Because I'm quite new now. :) ) Anybody can help me on the following three points? Thanks in advance.
1. Which links are inbound links? Links to URL inside the domain? If so, how about links to sudomains?
2. I wonder whether 'proximity (multi kws)' means proximity among the keywords listed in the Keywords tag or proximity of all the text content appearing in the page.
3. Completely lost at 'usage in text'.
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