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basic questions about themes / key phrases
rcjordan




msg:271299
 8:47 pm on Jul 8, 2000 (gmt 0)

Rec'd an email... good questions, but Debbie is shy to post the first time, so I thought I'd post for her. Guys & Gals?

>Hi. I saw your post in se forum on themes and am very lost on this........
If 10 phrases are picked to target ie motivational quotes, inspirational, famous sayings, philosophical quotations etc etc. are all these phrases used on every page? Are they meta tags slightly rotated or varied?

>I'm pretty ignorant about this , but figured I'd ask before I get courage to post!

>Debbie

 

rcjordan




msg:271300
 9:11 pm on Jul 8, 2000 (gmt 0)

Debbie adds a little more...

>Anyway, if you still want to ghost write here goes...

How are the keywords used in the meta tags, descriptions, h1 tags etc if there are 8 focused upon for the site as a whole. If one page emphasizes quotes on wisdom are all the other 7 phrases distributed on that page too (and in what proportion)? How does the keyword density compare for the focused page (ie quotes on wisdom) vs a different phrase (ie quotes on love).
Should the keyword phrase not use "quotes" more than once (ie should I instead say "love sayings"," inspirational words" ) etc?

Are hallways important?

[webmasterworld.com...]

NFFC




msg:271301
 10:45 pm on Jul 8, 2000 (gmt 0)

LOL.

This is how I apply the concept of "themes" to a site.

As an example take a firm of solicitors [UK term?] who have a large number of individual departments e.g. divorce, patents, trademarks, accidents, asbestosis, harassment etc etc.

At first glance it may appear that it is not possible to establish a theme for the site, with so many different search terms to cover. It also seems that the search terms are not related, what is the connection between divorce and asbestosis?

Throughout all of the specialities there exists common themes: solicitors, law, legal, advice, compensation, claims etc etc. These are the *key* terms that should belong in every page because they are in theme with the overall thrust of the site.

Imagine you are a search engine:

A surfer types "divorce solicitors" how do you find the right answer?

Assuming "divorce" is less common than "solicitors" you would find all instances of divorce first [it's quicker] and then match the sites with the strongest solicitors content [ie. theme].

So, theme your *site* according to the root [i.e.. competitive words] and *focus* your individual pages at the rarer words.

i.e. "theme" = solicitors "page focus" = divorce.

oldtimer




msg:271302
 11:18 pm on Jul 8, 2000 (gmt 0)

That's the clearest explanation of how to work themes I've seen anywhere.

jilla




msg:271303
 12:17 am on Jul 10, 2000 (gmt 0)

I'd like to thank rc for ghost writing for me but I will now
risk public humiliation by continuing this without anonymity.

If I can now about NFCC's reply, here goes:

Would this be right in application to my theme? I am not too familiar with the term solicitor.

I would have the *key theme be terms such as:
quotations, quotes, sayings, proverbs, etc

1) Should they just be single words only?

2)IF the *focus for one page would be "inspirational" instead of
"wisdom" could someone suggest how this would be in the title and meta tags?

3) What would the keyword density be for the "focused" word (ie wisdom" compared to the themed terms that are also repeated on the page?

Thank you for any help.



oilman




msg:271304
 1:59 pm on Jul 10, 2000 (gmt 0)

ok - here's my 2 cents:
lets say you have 5 key words/phrases (for ease of this reply we will call them k1, k2, k3, k4, k5)

- rank them in order of importance: k1, k2, k3,k4, k5

Here's how I would set up the keyword metas:
page1 - k1 k2 k1 k3 k1 k4 k5 - focus k1
page2 - k1 k2 k3 k2 k4 k2 k5 - focus k2
page3 - k1 k3 k2 k3 k4 k3 k5 - focus k3
page4 - k1 k4 k2 k4 k3 k4 k5 - focus k4
and so on without using commas and keeping the repitition to 3 intsances of the focus word/phrase.

As for the title tag I would start it with the focus word and then the other words in order of focus for that page. Title tag would also be kept to 64 to 70 characters as well.

Description would once again start with focus word and include others as well. Focus word should show up twice. Keep to a couple sentences (200 characters).

Body of page is where it gets a little tougher. Focus word up to five times as close to the top of the page as possible without compromising writing style and flow. Distribute other words 2 to 3 times throughout the content as well. Number of words is not a real issue here. I've seen pages with 1500 words rank nicely. The only key here is to keep you keywords/phrases closer to the top to feed the spiders that may not read the whole thing.

Also, don't forget text links using keywords to the other pages of the site. In this case the link to the page focused on k3 would use k3 in the link text.

Finally the pages will also be named k1.htm, k2.htm etc.

jilla




msg:271305
 3:20 pm on Jul 10, 2000 (gmt 0)

Thank you oilman,

This is starting to click.
Can you just explalin the following:

You said:

ok - here's my 2 cents:
lets say you have 5 key words/phrases (for ease of this reply we will call them k1, k2, k3, k4, k5)
- rank them in order of importance: k1, k2, k3,k4, k5
Here's how I would set up the keyword metas:
page1 - k1 k2 k1 k3 k1 k4 k5 - focus k1
page2 - k1 k2 k3 k2 k4 k2 k5 - focus k2

***
1) In terms of what you are saying about the meta:
Are you saying that after you list the keywords without commas, you should then have a "dash" and " focus k1"? Are you not combining the "focus" word with the keyword (generic theme) until after the dash? I thought the keywords were generic (ie divorce, accidents, harassment ) and the focus word would be specific ie
"work" harassment.

2) Would you have 4 or 5 pages for each focus word combined with each key phrase . IE using NFCC's example:

divorce solicitors
divorce advice
divorce claims

harassment advice
harassment claims
harassment trademarks

3) Is it a better idea to have k1 k2 k3 etc be phrases instead of single words since there would be so many pages called up for terms like divorce, accidents, harassment etc?

Thank you again!


oilman




msg:271306
 3:54 pm on Jul 10, 2000 (gmt 0)

1. I was only indicating which word was being focused on for that tag - don't include the focus part.

2. Here's how I would set it up:
solicitors.htm - solicitors divorce advice trademarks divorce harassment claims solicitors harassment advice solicitors claims harssment trademarks divorce

etc...

3. The phrase thing is kinda weird. I like to keep the works in order that they appear in the phrases but still leave out commas. That gives the SE some latitude to combine for different phrases. You can see above that many of the phrases are still intact. You will find many different opinions of the comma question.


jilla




msg:271307
 4:12 pm on Jul 10, 2000 (gmt 0)

Thank you again oilman.

Maybe I was drawing on NFCC's approach which is different from yours because he seems to be saying (if I understand it correctly) that every page would have certain key phrases:

He said:
=======
Throughout all of the specialities there exists common themes: solicitors, law, legal, advice, compensation, claims etc etc. These are the *key* terms that should belong in every page because they are in theme with the overall thrust of the site.
=======

Then I think he individualizes each page with a focus word which is different from these key phrases:

"individual departments e.g. divorce, patents, trademarks, accidents, asbestosis, harassment etc etc."

so that the divorce page would have
solicitors, law, legal, advice, compensation, claims

and the accidents page would have
solicitors, law, legal, advice, compensation, claims

but the divorce page wouldn't have accidents on it since divorce is the focus. Thank you , I think I get what you said and will try this out. Back to work.


georged




msg:271308
 4:18 pm on Jul 10, 2000 (gmt 0)

What oilman is saying by "- focus k1" is that the focus is on k1 on that page, not that you should add " - focus K1" to your tags.
'K1' can be a phrase or a single word, it doesn't matter except that a keyphrase is much easier to rank well than a single word, all other things being equal.
I think you've got distracted by the use of the word 'focus',e.g.

"I thought the keywords were generic (ie divorce, accidents, harassment ) and the focus word would be specific ie
"work" harassment."

Themes are generic, keywords are the focus.
Intersperse words like "quotations" or "sayings" throughout your site, then target specific types of quotations like "humourous" "philosophical" "motivational" etc. on each individual page, with a title being e.g. "Humourous quotations, amusing sayings etc." The next pages title might be "philosophical quotations, wise sayings etc."
In this way you are building up a common theme for each page, but each page has a different 'focus'.
On your first page, push the theme.

BTW, NFFC that was an excellent explanation.



NFFC




msg:271309
 7:33 pm on Jul 10, 2000 (gmt 0)

A themed, hyperlinked copyright statement could help.

Spelling yet again!

Edited by: NFFC

Smokin Joe




msg:271310
 3:11 pm on Jul 11, 2000 (gmt 0)

So, what if I were to include my 10 keywords on every optimized page and in each title include the focus keyword. Would this work through the themes theory?

Should I included my other 9 keywords in the content?
Alt tags?
Headline tags?
Comment tags?

I'm feeling the whole theme concept, I'm just wondering if its got a particular method. But it almost seems to me that this would not work in a competitive market, such as web design or SEO....

Am I wrong?

rcjordan




msg:271311
 6:11 pm on Jul 11, 2000 (gmt 0)

>competitive
Well, I'm 1 or 2 in 2-word kw phrase (resort name) that has about 500k returns. I've seen another rank in the top 10 in MP3-related. (Mine was dumb luck, don't list me as a themes pro. )

>Alt
I still like these.

>Headline tags?
I've dropped all metas


>Comment tags?
no

For me, that leaves content and <noframes> tags


>A themed, hyperlinked copyright statement could help.
Such finesse! NFFC, that's a good, subtle one..... lemmee jot that one down under the "no stone unturned" category.

NFFC




msg:271312
 8:17 pm on Jul 11, 2000 (gmt 0)

>lemmee jot that one down under the "no stone unturned" category.

Don't forget the "Disclaimer"[Link and page]

octobersky




msg:271313
 12:51 am on Jul 12, 2000 (gmt 0)

rcjordan

>Head tags?
I've dropped all metas

Is this across the board or just for particular engines?

rcjordan




msg:271314
 1:45 am on Jul 12, 2000 (gmt 0)

I don't cloak, or use splash pages, and my site is "one size fits all" when it comes to submitting. So it's across the board. Check out this earlier AV thread. [webmasterworld.com]

I believe I've seen several posts by the SEO pros indicating that they use meta kws, but it also seems that these keys are effectively limited to around 80 characters (someone verify this, please).

oilman




msg:271315
 5:22 am on Jul 12, 2000 (gmt 0)

I've pretty much given up on the metas myself. I still put them in but I don't worry to much about the content. We're focusing on 8-10 words/phrases. 75-100 characters and the last 25 are just hopefuls ;)

rcjordan




msg:271316
 7:38 pm on Mar 27, 2001 (gmt 0)

Someone just stickymailed me about this thread. Doing some deep reading, eh? This is a good one.

>I don't cloak, or use splash pages, and my site is "one size fits all" when it comes to submitting. So it's across the board.

Yes, it STILL works. In fact, I just showed Brett a major, PRIME retirement city where my heavily themed site (it's FRAMED, to boot) now ranks #1 in google under "Cityname AZ retirement" -life is good.

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