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Keyword Density
cnu11




msg:270391
 3:41 pm on Dec 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have outsourced my SEO campaigns and my content writer as well. I recently signed on my content writer and thus began the writing process. My SEO coordinator sent our writer a keyword density of around 15%. My writer then jumped up saying this is way too high, these are old tactics and keyword Spam. Is this correct? Should we be focusing on density of 1-2%? I could use all the advice you can offer.

Thanks to all,

CNU11

 

mona




msg:270392
 5:59 pm on Dec 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

Somewhere in between the two should work. Remember to keep the user in mind as well as the search engines in your copy. Good luck~

deejay




msg:270393
 11:25 pm on Dec 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

First, make sure your SEO co-ordinator and your writer are using the same definition of keyword density.

Everyone seems to ahve their own take on how it is calculated, so get them both on the same page for a start.

I like Brett's method used in his keyword density tool here: [searchengineworld.com...]

I think... from memory... that the tool first discards all stop words and words of three letters or less, then looks only at words/phrases used more than once on the page - the density is then calculated as a proportion of those words only. Disclaimer: It's a long time since I actually looked at it in detail, so run a few analyses and check for yourself that that is what is happening.

On that basis, with stop words, short words and non-repeated words discarded, 15% is actually not that high, and not hard to achieve without cramming.

I suspect your writer is looking at it as if every sixth word on the page has to be your keyword... hence the very negative reaction. That could be a pretty blah page (though, again, it depends on the page - look at a category page on any shopping site and that happens quite commonly).

On the other hand, using the method I mentioned above, in a 'content' page, ie, normal reading text... you can actually achieve high densities by mentioning the word only a couple of times in a large page.

.......

One thing that I think is often overlooked. Keyword Prominence. You want your phrase to be at an appropriate density, yes... but perhaps even more importantly it should be the most prominent phrase on the page. Again, not talking about stuffing, but it should be obvious to both the reader and the search engine that this is what the page is about. Achieved through all the standard MOs.. inclusion in titles, repetition throughout the page, etc... but particularly it should have the highest density of phrases on the page (within your pre-defined range of acceptable density).

Animated




msg:270394
 1:57 am on Dec 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

in my opinion 2%-5% is a good density

Animated




msg:270395
 9:40 am on Dec 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>I like Brett's method used in his keyword density tool here: [searchengineworld.com...]

deejay the url is not working :( is there any other way can check out bretts tool?

ken_b




msg:270396
 3:10 pm on Dec 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Try this link for the same page.

Keyword Density Analyzer Tool [searchengineworld.com]

Animated




msg:270397
 1:32 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

thanx hehe i just found out , its one of tools i have been using already.

JayC




msg:270398
 1:41 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> My writer then jumped up saying this is way
>> too high, these are old tactics

Personally I'd say that the entire concept of working towards a specific "keyword density" as a ratio of keywords to total words, regardless of how you calculate it, is an "old tactic." You may hit upon a ratio that seems to work for a number of your pages but that's essentially a coincidence.

dauction




msg:270399
 1:48 am on Dec 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

15 % is too high for G and Y .

Y pulled me from their index (on one of my sites)until I pulled back on the Keyword density. I was at maybe around 12-13% . Worked great 2 years ago but not for todays algos.

When I pulled back to 7% or so I also noticed an increase in G rankings ...

vaniaul




msg:270400
 11:40 am on Dec 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

You may hit upon a ratio that seems to work for a number of your pages but that's essentially a coincidence.

I need your advise regarding this. Actually I've a big site with approx 250+ pages mainly Articles. For achieving the rankings on related keywords I'm planning to make small groups of articles under each of the targetted keywords.

For instance a group 7 articles will be presented under One Keyword.

1.Semantically these articles would be related to the targetted keyword.
2.The density of targetted keyword on each of these articles would be 2%.

3.By doing this, under each Keyword there will be 7 seven pages with 2% keyword density each.

Do you think following the above 3 points would help me to achieve rankings for the targetted keyword.

Is this the actual way to do it.

Your comments will be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Cheers
Vani

d_mot




msg:270401
 6:59 pm on Jan 5, 2006 (gmt 0)


15 % is too high for G and Y .
Y pulled me from their index (on one of my sites)until I pulled back on the Keyword density. I was at maybe around 12-13% . Worked great 2 years ago but not for todays algos.

When I pulled back to 7% or so I also noticed an increase in G rankings ...

dauction --

What tool/method are you using to come up with those density percentage numbers? Bretts? Another? Are you including the metatags in that percentage calculation? Is that KW density figure for phrases or just for single word terms in the phrase?

Im am 90% sure Im currently getting a similar OOP with lowered rank as you describe.

I've optimized for the phrase "used blue widgets Texas", but I think my KW density on the word blue is too high. I rank #2 for "used widgets Texas" but actually drop to #18 for "used blue widgets Texas".

Seems pretty obvious Im tripping some sort of filter on the term "blue" to pick up the lowered ranking on a page specifically designed for it.


First, make sure your SEO co-ordinator and your writer are using the same definition of keyword density.
Everyone seems to ahve their own take on how it is calculated, so get them both on the same page for a start.

excellent point, deejay.

This is why I ask Dauction exactly how he has come up with the 7% KW density measurement that seems to work.

dauction




msg:270402
 7:04 pm on Jan 5, 2006 (gmt 0)

d_mot
I count on page content only..

of course you dont want to stuff your meta with keyword anyways ..but I concentrated on on page content

d_mot




msg:270403
 4:28 pm on Jan 6, 2006 (gmt 0)


I've optimized for the phrase "used blue widgets Texas", but I think my KW density on the word blue is too high. I rank #2 for "used widgets Texas" but actually drop to #18 for "used blue widgets Texas".

Seems pretty obvious Im tripping some sort of filter on the term "blue" to pick up the lowered ranking on a page specifically designed for it.
- d_mot (self quote)


I count on page content only..
of course you dont want to stuff your meta with keyword anyways ..but I concentrated on on page content.
- dauction

Dauction --
thanks for the reply, but Im still wondering what tool you actually used to measure and keep the KWD under 7%? Ive used several different ones and they vary wildly. Are you referring to single word density? 2 word phrase density? 3 word density?

I don't really like using the meta tags, I'd prefer not to have them taking up space, but I do get a number of yahoo visitors, and the metas are right there in the SERPS. It's an easy way to control SERP content blurbs that they see.

As I said in my post, Im almost positive Im tripping OOP and I'd like to get that down to acceptable percentage, but Im a bit lost since there are several different ways that Brett's tool calculates KWD -- 1,2,3 word phrases for example.

For instance, using my pseudo phrase above (not including meta tag content):

If I measure 3 word phrase density for "used blue widgets", Im at 20%. Measuring the 2 word phrase density for "blue widgets", Im at 14.4%. And the 1 word density for "blue" is 9.4%.

I can see that the density on the word "blue" is well above 7%, so obviously that needs to be pulled back....

...but, are you also saying that all of those phrase densities ( 1, 2, & 3 word) need to be pulled under 7%? I think you are only referring only to the 1 word KWD and not the 2,3 word phrases. Thoughts?

Lorel




msg:270404
 4:18 am on Jan 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've been using the above program for a long time. I do not allow it to deduct 3 letter words as that would remove the word "web". If that is one of your main keywords then you want to keep that word, so I disallow 2 letter words and add several 3 letter words to the disallow list manually and don't use their list of stop words for that reason.

Google doesn't use the meta tag keywords so I unclick that also.

There is no set % you should aim for. That depends on what your competitors are using. I have seen a site ranking at the #1 spot for over a year with 30% density for a keyword phrase --even after reporting them as spam to google.

The rank also involves the age of the site and somewhat based on PR. All of the higher ranking sites for a keyword phrase that I monitor are older than 2 years and have a high PR--in this case unless your site has a high pr and older than 2 years you likely won't out rank them with Keyword density no matter what it is.

I have also noticed when tweaking the keyword density that the rank will raise a little this week and more the next and more the next, i.e., it's not a giant leap, it's a gradual rise. So tweak your density and leave it alone and only tweak it again if you didn't achieve your goal. But also be careful you don't overdoo it and get demoted for too high density.

Animated




msg:270405
 12:55 am on Jan 15, 2006 (gmt 0)

The rank also involves the age of the site and somewhat based on PR. All of the higher ranking sites for a keyword phrase that I monitor are older than 2 years and have a high PR--in this case unless your site has a high pr and older than 2 years you likely won't out rank them with Keyword density no matter what it is.

Yes the age and pipularity of sites play a role in good ranking specially for Google.I think there are many facotrs for a good rank such as the ones we mentioned and keyword density is also one.But a good key density by itself wont get a site up on the first top 10 lets say you do all the density right and right prominance if a site is lucky they might end up in #20-30.

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