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This 42 message thread spans 2 pages: 42 ( [1] 2 > >     
Toxic Lemon gone from Google?
where is it?
JoeyJoeJoe

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 5:53 pm on Dec 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

I was just looking at some of the UK engines in Google and I cant find Toxic Lemon at all, no pages, not even the front page. It is still showing a pagerank but even the cached pages are gone.

Isnt this a bit odd? There will be several hundred searches per month on Google by people searching for the site. A quick look at the Overture UK suggestion tool shows 753 searches for "toxic lemon" last month.

I guess that they annoyed Google, like Search King did, but it seems that google should at least keep the front page in. This is a hand deletion if ever I saw one.

 

IanTurner

WebmasterWorld Administrator ianturner us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 6:34 pm on Dec 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

There are lots of potential reasons for this happening.

Toxic Lemon could have blocked Googlebot via robots.txt or the server could have been down for an extended period over the holiday.

Most like it is Google removing sites that are displaying search results from their competitors. I have heard of a number of sites disappearing without trace just recently, it is unlikely to be a coincidence.

Bobby_Davro

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 12:02 am on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yup, it has all gone. I don't know if this is just because Toxic Lemon pushed the Google system too much or whether it is a general push against competing sites in the UK.

Inktomi are also deliberately blocking "competitors" now, which I found out a few days ago.

NFFC

WebmasterWorld Senior Member nffc us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 2:06 am on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

With respect, to describe TL as a competitor or competing with Google is a spin too far.

The site was there to do a specific job, it did it very well, it was only ever going to be short term.

To try and spin this as big bad Google stomping its competitors does us all a dis-service. There may come a time when G needs to be called to account, crying wolf now will not help that process.

Bobby_Davro

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 2:22 am on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Agreed - I used the word "competitors" only because I am referring to the main company, Infospace, who are a much larger overall search company. "Competitor" was the word used by Inktomi to describe them last week to me, so I would assume that Google regards them in the same light.

It would be silly to suggest that Google see Toxic Lemon or any other small UK search engine as genuine competition. However, they may see companies like Overture, Espotting, Webfinder and Mirago as genuine competitors in the UK. Infospace is actually a Google partner, rather than competitor, which makes the Toxic Lemon move slightly unusual, if not unexpected.

EliteWeb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member eliteweb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 2:43 am on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Maybe TL is banning Googlebot's IP addresses?

percentages

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 2:44 am on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Looks to me like Google has dumped ToxicLemon but kept LimeySearch. Just like the Overture/Goto situation. One domain per site doesn't seem unreasonable;)

percentages

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 2:47 am on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

>A quick look at the Overture UK suggestion tool shows 753 searches for "toxic lemon" last month.

More traffic for Brett now ;)

Bobby_Davro

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 2:50 am on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Although Toxic Lemon uses the Limey Search directory, this is not a major part of the site. I doubt that this is the issue, otherwise every ODP mirror site would be removed.

Eliteweb, the IP range wasn't blocked, nor was the site down. I believe that it is a content issue and that the site has been deliberately removed. As NFFC says, this is not entirely unexpected.

Brad

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 2:58 am on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

If this truely is a deletion of a competitor, then it is a sad commentary on the state of the web and sounds more like childish playground antics rather than the conduct of true search professionals.

Remember when the Yahoo directory was hailed as _the_ authority site for searchers, because it listed all of their competitors large and small?

Bobby_Davro

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 3:04 am on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Brad, it is far too small scale to be a competition issue I think. If we saw another 20 or 30 sites go over the next few weeks, then it might mean that, but I suspect that this is an individual site issue.

lloyd

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 9:49 am on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Is it worth being on Toxic Lemon anyway?

Dayo_UK

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 10:22 am on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Interesting.

There are plenty of sites out there that do what Toxic-Lemon do (Linking to their own (well not really own - but you know what I mean) serps) - I wonder if Toxic-Lemon just pushed it to far (I think they had over 100,000 pages of serps listed.) and eventually got noticed by Google quality control.

Is it worth being on Toxic Lemon anyway?

Not as much as it was

exmoorbeast

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 11:42 am on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

We'll if TL has gone then that is a sad day for UK independent search. If you look for Yahoo on Google then you find it so why not TL?

Hopefully TL will have grown a large enough userbase to see through this glitch. I also hope that it was temporary because the TL meta search gave a good spread of results.

Dayo_UK

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 11:53 am on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Totally different kettle of fish with Yahoo.

If Yahoo started to link to its own serps such as:-

htt*p://search.yahoo.com/search?p=webmasterworld&ei=UTF-8&fr=fp-tab-web-t&cop=mss&tab=

But doing a mod rewrite so that the url was more Search Engine friendly then it could be comparable.

Even so plenty of others do the same as TL.

Bobby_Davro

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 12:41 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Well, it appears to be back in as I write this.

ncw164x

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 12:43 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just goes to show Bobby, it's not WHAT you know it's WHO you know

ncw164x

Dayo_UK

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 12:46 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yep - seems to be back in on all known datacentres.

How strange.

TinkyWinky

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 12:47 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yep looks like it's back okay - 92,000 pages listed.

Nowt wrong with those - IMHO if you remove someone like TL - then you need to remove every other 2/3rd level search engine with over 20,000 pages set up for the SERPS

Now that would open up Google to a lot of very crap results and odd information floating around IMO.

TL is quite a good site anyways - at least you get what you're looking for - unlike some other affiliate sites that have recently appeared.

jmccormac

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 12:48 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

There are plenty of sites out there that do what Toxic-Lemon do (Linking to their own (well not really own - but you know what I mean) serps)

This could be the start of a move by Google to remove webpages that are mainly serps. These dynamically generated pages are the equivalent of search index pollution for any search engine operator. Whether it is exploiting a flaw in SE design or taking advantage of how SEs work is open to question. However A lot of small sites are using these serp filled pages to make money from advertising and affiliate deals.

Regards...jmcc

exmoorbeast

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 1:15 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Opps...just read the thread again.

Yeeha TL is back! Nice one

Tinky Winky - did you get your site back too?

Pigs in space

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 1:38 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

I am one happy Pig now TL is back, question is will it last? is TL back simply due to some update that G did being rolled back?

Does anyone have any inside info on what G are playing at?

TinkyWinky

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 1:43 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

exmoorbeast

nope! not a sign....I did get an email back from google saying read the guidelines *cheers guys - hadn;t thought of that one then!*

Never mind (*GULP*) just as well the old adage that having all your eggs in one basket is not something I do!

Cheers
TW

exmoorbeast

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 1:54 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

I heard there was high level meeting where the CEO of Google met with the main man at TL in London. Apparently Google was afraid that TL was threatening its market share. TL managed to pursuade Google that they could work together in harmony and they did a deal there and then. One flip of a switch later and it was all taken care of and Google flew back to the States. Not sure if this is true.

Tinky Winky - na having eggs in one basket is never a good idea is it. We lost a 2 year old city site which had absolutely 100% genuine content and no spam whatsoever. Luckily we had other sites to back it up. A real shame though because people liked the site and even phoned us to ask questions about that city! Worse still we made money from it!

Maybe you should get on the horler to the CEO of Google and ask him over to London? ;-)

(edited poor spellin)

Bobby_Davro

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 4:07 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yeah, that's just how it happened, lol.

engine

WebmasterWorld Administrator engine us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 6:06 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

hehehe
...and I heard a lot of other tall stories about this and WebmasterWorld Florida updates, too. ;)

Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 6:31 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

> nffc:To try and spin this as big bad Google
> stomping its competitors does us all a
> dis-service.

Ditto. Personally - I think this whole thread is nothing more than a url/promotion drop.

Google accidently dropping that site was probably the best thing that ever happened to it.

TinkyWinky

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 6:54 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

nothing more than a url/promotion drop

Not sure about that - why tell everyone how you f***ed up so that all other competitors can benefit from your new found knowledge? That's what stickmail's for?

Promotion or dropping your url - everyone here (virtually) has their own sites and their own struggles with google et al and getting seen. I doubt any of us would switch away to use TL apart from seeing all the good things that were being done.

Having said all of that - nothing's changed anyway!

Bobby_Davro

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 7:18 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

This isn't a promotion drop - webmasters are hardly the target audience for TL. What would be the advantage of a couple of hundred webmasters seeing the site? It doesn't sell anything to webmasters, and they certainly aren't the kind of people to use it. Doesn't sound like much compensation for the lost revenue to me ;-)

Also, there is no way that it was an accident. Others here who have looked at this will confirm that. It is worth discussing because many of us here have been waiting for Google to start making moves in the UK to hurt the competition (Overture and Espotting). If something happens, I want to know about it, and I suspect that others do as well. I notice a good number of long time members posting in this thread, so there is obviously some genuine interest.

[edited by: IanTurner at 7:28 pm (utc) on Dec. 30, 2003]
[edit reason] Unecessary addition [/edit]

exmoorbeast

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1086 posted 9:10 pm on Dec 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Agree Bobby, thanks for your insight.

This 42 message thread spans 2 pages: 42 ( [1] 2 > >
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