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General Search Engine Marketing Issues Forum

    
SEO Software - Good or Bad?
Is search engine optimisation software helpful or not?
torfig




msg:225973
 1:32 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi everyone,

I have just made a site using Web Position Gold to optimize it for the search term wedding speech.
I found it to be very easy and helpful for a novice like me to use WPG.
The site has been up for only 2 weeks but it is allready at number 6 at Yahoo for the search term "wedding speech tips" but I don't see it on the first page for the search term "wedding speech", but I guess only time will tell if it is going to get a top position for that search term.

Now I want to ask you the experts what you think of these SEO Softwares and why, are they good or bad?

 

bcolflesh




msg:225974
 1:47 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

[google.com...]

"Don't use unauthorized computer programs to submit pages, check rankings, etc. Such programs consume computing resources and violate our terms of service. Google does not recommend the use of products such as WebPosition Gold™ that send automatic or programmatic queries to Google. "

torfig




msg:225975
 1:56 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

But still I am pretty impressed with the only function I used on that software wich was the page critic.
That function shows you how to optimize your page for a specific search term.

neuron




msg:225976
 3:08 am on Apr 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

the problem with page critic in the statistics. This critter will tell you something like "80% of all page ranked in #1 positions contained 250 to 350 words and with a keyword density of..blah blah. What it doesn't tell you is that 90% of ALL pages contain between 250 and 350 words. It'll go on to tell you that only 4% of #1 ranked pages have more than 600 words, but it won't tell you that only 1 percent of all pages have more than 600 words.

The skewed advice given or implied is that you will have 20 times better chance of getting your page ranked #1 if you limit your page to 250 to 350 words, when the actual statistics are indicative that you will have a 5 times better chance of ranking #1 if you use more than 600 words.

Hey, if your page doesn't do well, it's not your fault, after all, you bought the most recommmended software in the industry, right?

When I go to shampoo my hair, I don't rub the bottle against my head, and I don't tape a couple of aspirin to my forehead when I get a headache. You gotta work it, baby!

webnewton




msg:225977
 7:39 am on Apr 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

They are okey for elemetary SEO. Thats it.

organ




msg:225978
 12:48 pm on Apr 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

Why is SEO software, such as the Page Critic feature of Web Position Gold, good for just ELEMENTARY SEO? Why wouldn't it be a timesaver, or at least a good checklist, for more experienced SEO implementers?

As a person more experienced with SEO, if Page Critic isn't your tool of choice for checking your pages, what is?

Leosghost




msg:225979
 12:55 pm on Apr 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

Welcome to WebmasterWorld organ .....the problem with any automated system is twofold ...
One if it works and we can all buy it we'll all be number one ....( makes as much sense as MLM )..
Two ..so much of SEO is on "off page" factors thaat how in the hell is it gonna analyse theose ...it can't so it's a waste of your money....
How do you check you got it right .... there is no right ....there is what works

torfig




msg:225980
 7:14 pm on May 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

So basicly, drop the softwares and learn by visiting good forums like this one and do it by hand.
Right?

Good thing I did not buy the software, I only tried it out for free and I was just wondering if it would be cost effective to purchase it.

Thanks Guys,

Torfi Gudmundsson

Old Welsh Guy




msg:225981
 4:26 pm on May 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

Stuff like that is really good to help you learn about SEO. It is also good to point you in the right direction. It is absolutely no good though in cases of high competition.

The top 5 sites could all be there for different reasons, keep in mind that there are some 100 factors in the google algo, many of these are offpage. Link volume, link qulity, link location, site architecture, site navigation (a huge factor that most auto SEO software simply does not understand).

In most cases of highly competitive keywords, the sites MUSt have a dman good set of links, be they lower link count high quality relevant anchor text links, or simply by sheer volume. WPG and the like can not understand this, it is the job of the SEO pro to do the homework and work out what is going on below the surface of the SERP's. NO auto software (other than a copy of the current Google algo) is gonna do that for you.

OWG

nathanparrett




msg:225982
 8:07 am on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Im completely new to SEO, wpg was my first point of call, however, google will know that your site has been submitted by them and there is a strong chance that continued use of the product will get your site banned.

There isnt any really good SEO books out there, this forum is your best bet at learning.

Dont be phased by SEO, yes there is an art to it and it does take experience but it is possible to master it. Dedication and hard work is what its all about

Old Welsh Guy




msg:225983
 8:31 am on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Nathan, that is right, the best place to learn is forums and online associated ebooks from people you have come to trust.

Beware of some forums though as not everything you read online is face ;-)

Forums such as this, ans a couple of others that I will not name are the best. They are frequented by people who know what they are talking about, and will also downcry any misleading information that may be posted.

OWG

sidyadav




msg:225984
 9:47 am on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

If I were you, I certainly wouldn't beleive a software.

I tried some software called "Internet Business Promoter (IBP)", and ran a SEO report on my site. I applied some stuff mentioned and it actually dropped my ranking. What I had originally was better.

But it may depend though.

Sid

Old Welsh Guy




msg:225985
 11:06 am on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Years ago, automated software could get some results, but that was more because there was less SEo's around, and certainly less competition.

Google uses araound 100 factors in its algorithm. So what in effect this means is that the top 5 sites could all be there for different resons. some due to the quality of their copy, some as they are seen as a hub for information via outgoing links, some as they are seen as an Authority due to the numbers of incoming links, and others due to a combination of one or the other 100 or so factors, but balanced on a different basis.

Because of this it is almost impossible for a piece of software (other than a copy of the google algo and access to their database) to predict what will happen, and what is the 'perfect' scoe for ranking.

The absolute proof is this. The Florida update hit in November, sites dropped like flies while others went up (obviously if sites dropped out) lol.

My point is though that the day after Florida hit, the same versions of these types of software were onsale as they were the day before Florida? How can it be that the method of rangking sites changes, but software that tells you how to get ranked does not?

Simply put, it can't!

IBP, WPG etc are all fine to give you at a glance reports, and in fact are great for their reporting features if you want to produce shiny reports for your clinets, they will save you a mountain of time. But apart from those two thngs I can see no reason for using or buying them.

Search has changed, and IS changing, and when the next gen search kicks in with local rank topic sensitive page rank, stemming and semantic searching, then this type of software could end up doing more harm than good if relied on 100% for results.

coburn




msg:225986
 12:06 am on May 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

Whilst it's true that G uses about 100 variables in it's golden algo, this doesn't give a newby a pointer as to which variables to pay most attention to. So where do you start?

Lets start by making a simplifying statement: The most important of all the 100 variables is inbound links (both quality and quantity). So to get a lot of sites linking to you you'll need to have a site that other's consider worthy of linking to. So build a site rich in valuable content. Next you'll want to write to webmasters asking them to exchange links with you or link to you. This is a time intensive campaign, and I recommend using a prog like Arelis to help you.

Then pay attention to SEO - most important being your title, and keep on picking up clues like this one from this forum.

Good luck

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