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Fear Factor : Ranking the Updates
Brett_Tabke




msg:227629
 3:13 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

[webmasterworld.com...]

Worst update: Nov 2001?

3rd, 4th, ort 5th: Florida?

Other biggies:

Altavista: Too many urls Dec 1998 (?)
Altavista: Black Monday, August 1999
Excite: Density tweak (Dec 1997)?
Inktomi: Over submission update Spring 98 (?)

[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 7:25 pm (utc) on Dec. 2, 2003]

 

TheDave




msg:227630
 3:16 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

No way, Florida is the worst I have seen, ever. I didnt get hit on any of the other updates because I dont use any shadey tactics, but florida I did get hit, so therefore it is easily the worst for me.

[edit]I guess from a users perspective, the results are still ok for informational searches, and when I have questioned friends and work mates they have all told me they see no change - except for one person with one word - Fonts. Couldnt find any of the sites he was expecting.

Goanna1




msg:227631
 3:30 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Definitely Florida. Everything else pales in significance because of Google's share, the timing, and also that fact that there are a lot more businesses that get a siginificant proportion of their revenue online now.

[edited by: Goanna1 at 3:37 am (utc) on Dec. 2, 2003]

korkus2000




msg:227632
 3:33 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Honestly the searches I have made recently have terrible results. I think it really is the worst as far as quality, for me. None of my sites were really effected at all. It is just the searching that makes me rank this one poorly. Atleast the crosslinking update still had pretty good results.

BigDave




msg:227633
 3:37 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Definitely AV.

I'm not sure if it was the update you mentioned or not, but it was when they started selling out.

It is the only time I ever noticed that my primary SE had become bad enough for me to switch. Every other time I switched was due to getting better results with a new SE.

WebGuerrilla




msg:227634
 3:39 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)


What makes Florida worse than all the others is the fact that Google spent so much time preaching to the Webmaster community that they would be rewarded for staying withing Google's published guidelines.

Now they come along and dump a ton of sites who bought into the PR campaign. Meanwhile, the agressive SEO that all the die-hard Google loyalists have fought against is flourishing.

Hopefully, everyone will wake up and realize that no search engine is your friend. If you have spent any time even thinking about how you might rank higher without paying money to the search engine, you are the enemy and you will be irradicated.

hazardtomyself




msg:227635
 3:42 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

How could I forget last year...but Florida by far is the worst. Where have all the good niche sites gone? In my industry, niche sites served up are really what users are looking for, not massive portals they have to go search and click 8 layers deep to find any relevant information. Just my opinion.

CustomFit




msg:227636
 3:43 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Florida, no doubt. But, I do not think its completely over yet. That's just my opinion.

marcs




msg:227637
 3:55 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Florida probably seems like the worst as it is the most recent which is affecting people now.

Something that happened 2 years ago doesn't hurt as much as something that is taking away sales/income today.

rmccollom




msg:227638
 4:02 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Brett:
Worst update: Nov 2002? (or was the cross linking one Dec?)

I thought the biggie was Google Nov 2001? (remember with the link farms?)

Maybe I just don't remember correctly, but I swear the beginning of PR0, was two years ago?

2nd biggie was AV.

ineedmoreexercise




msg:227639
 4:09 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Florida is the worst. With Google results appearing at Yahoo the effect is magnified.

If Yahoo were using inktomi results, then Florida would not be nearly as drastic as losing 45% of your best keyword traffic overnight obviously would not be nearly as bad as losing 90% of that traffic as has happened to many with Florida due to the Google/Yahoo connection.

Dave_Hawley




msg:227640
 4:13 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

What would be of GREAT interest to me is whether a *truly independent Google searcher* (not a webmaster, site owner or tall poppy cutter) finds the results after Florida any worse.

Dave

yankee




msg:227641
 4:13 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Florida by a landslide. Google is no longer google. It's just another SE now. Google's goal was to remove spam. They must be clueless if they don't realize they removed great content too.

HayMeadows




msg:227642
 4:30 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Worst/biggest economical impact, Florida by far.

annej




msg:227643
 4:32 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm with you korkus2000. The update has made little difference for me in fact I am still 12 on my top word and I've been at 12 for some time.

But whenever I search I keep getting a site that searches for me instead of a site that has what I want. Google doesn't seem to be able to differentiate between a web page where the keyword might be mentioned once and a web page on the topic. If I want to learn about light weight tile roofing I don't want a site that helps me find house repair companies. Google is supposed to directly find the information I'm looking for.

shabadoo




msg:227644
 4:34 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Can I ask what the chosen criteria were for deciding? I am not trying to be narky, I am just curious as to what rationale behind deciding which update qualified for this most wonderful of honors :) Was it impact, Shock value or Number of posts in update threads? Cause on the last point, surely this update broke all records!

Maybe there should be a column added to the update thread that measures impact. You could rate it out of 10, ala the Richter scale.

crobb305




msg:227645
 4:35 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have heard a lot about the infamous "Black Monday" a couple of years ago. My site wasn't around then, so I don't know what that was about. Sounded like it hurt a lot of people though in that particular Google update.

Powdork




msg:227646
 4:52 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

There are thousands (I think millions is more likely) of search queries for which 80-95% of the previous sites in the top 100 are gone. I think this kinda says it all.

CCowboy




msg:227647
 5:15 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have not seen a really bad update yet! I am steal holding the same postions I've held for the last 18 months. The only strange thing I have seen is that some older pages took the postion of newer product pages that had ruled for the last six months. All I had to do was update the older pages. About 50 pages out of 5,000.

The thing I fear the most is "bean headed"
partners changing the code on the backend without telling me.

mfishy




msg:227648
 5:27 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Florida and Alta Vista are pretty close but Florida beats it because it is the quickest deterioration of quality I have seen - not just for search engines but businesses in general. Reminds me of Coca Cola introducing "New Coke". (stole that from someone here)

Google was able to return super-relevant results only 2 weeks ago. Now it's pretty much a mess.

We came out a bit ahead (income wise) with some sites up and others down (actually gone for the most part), but the update is still troublesome.

If G continues to use this scoring algo, it will be the most signficant occurance in the webmaster community for some time. Favoring slightly relevant largish sites or completely irrelevant portals over highly targeted niche sites certainly isn't "webmaster friendly".

Marcia




msg:227649
 5:48 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

With all due respect, I believe there's a very good reason for this thread and it's very timely. Fear and dismay are rampant and we need to take a closer look and examine the reasons for the fear so many are feeling.

I remember the AV debacle just pre-holiday in 2000 very distinctly. I started a thread in the AV forum "An Italian site has taken over my spot at Alta Vista." It had - there were irrelevant, off-topic European and adult sites showing up all over the place where pertinent sites should have been.

That, as I remember, marked the demise of AV, which had always been the favorite engine of many people.

mfishy
Florida and Alta Vista are pretty close but Florida beats it because it is the quickest deterioration of quality I have seen - not just for search engines but businesses in general. Reminds me of Coca Cola introducing "New Coke". (stole that from someone here)

Aside from any of our own issues, I think that's where a lot of the fear factor lies if we broaden our perspective and look further than personal issues.

Even though there's more diversity coming with the Yahoo switch, whatever shape that takes, an awful lot of people have grown almost exlusively dependent on Google. Regardless of the fact that it's been a source of financial abundance or supply for many - any dependency that reaches that kind of proportion is not healthy.

Whatever changes the near future brings, Google won't be forgotten as a lucrative source of traffic, and however it goes they'll still potentially provide a hefty share.

The biggest fear I see, beyond immediate valid personal concerns is that Google could go the route that AV went - because the quality setting is just too reminiscent. Absolutely the worst - about equal with Alta Vista's swan song.

The fear is that they'll go down the tubes like many others and it'll leave a void that all too many people will be at a loss to know how to fill.

If goes, what will people do? Fearful thought there.

zafile




msg:227650
 6:02 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)
Since you guys are remembering good-ole times ...

Back in 1995, Eric Schmidt, chief scientist at Sun Microsystems Inc., said the following in regard to "a $500 'Network PC'":

"'The device will have the processing power of a PC; it just doesn't have all that other stuff,' like CDROM drives and giant hard disks."

http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/199512/msg00021.html

Just in case you don't know, Eric Schmidt is today Google's CEO.

"a $500 'Network PC'" Give us break!

redzone




msg:227651
 6:10 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

crobb305,

If you are referring to the Black Monday that I remember in August of 1999, it wasn't an update, it was the day AOL (Who owned about the same % of the search market, as Google does today), dropped Excite with "no" warning... I wanted to go back to sleep, and not wake up.... So, it really wasn't an update, it was a complete switch...

The AV update wasn't as bad, because their market share was already declining....

I'd say the Google update in March/April, 2000 was our biggest hit, with Google...

pmac




msg:227652
 6:15 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

>Ranking the Updates<

Yeah, depends on how you rank 'em. The gnashing of teeth was quite spectacular during the PR 0 crosslinking update.

What's shocking about this this particular algo adventure is the degree that Google is being mocked. People are making fun of them. Hey, during the cross linking update I remember alot of anger, dismay, and a whole bunch of "who me?, my sites clean" conjecture, but I don't recall the the ridicule that Google is facing now. Speaks volumes.

zafile




msg:227653
 6:23 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

What about changing the title of this thread to:

Fear Factor : Ranking Google's Senior Officers

"Mr. Schmidt at Sun said Internet companies might follow the cellular telephone model and offer cheap PC's at below cost, to get customers to sign up for more lucrative network services."

Right ...

Maybe Mr. Schmidt will give ALL WebmasterWorld members cheap PC's after Google's IPO!

egomaniac




msg:227654
 6:28 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Between the cross-linking debacle and Florida, Florida wins as the WORST update.

Google has taken out dozens of sites in the categories I compete in. Some SEO'd, some not. I compete in a services category, and now the top of the SERPs are all dominated with pages from big name computer companies that don't sell such services to the public, and directory pages with little relevance.

The other day when I was actually using Google to search (instead of analyzing it), I found myself questioning the results more, and was having to refine my searches more.

I can always find what I want with Google as I usually search with 3-6 keywords plus modifiers. But I am not the average surfer. Most people I run into can't even open a new browser window, let alone add quotes to a portion of their search. These are the people who will start to notice a decline in Google over the coming weeks.

What really rips me about this is everything that I did for my site is visible to the user.

I hope the people at Yahoo are reading this. You've got a window of opportunity to make INK a real player again. Yahoo dump Google now, and start using INK.

Kirby




msg:227655
 6:28 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

however most of us are not in this position by choice. Google has slowly but surely been slipping its basket under all our eggs for years now.

Had to chew on that one for a while, but agree. I do well in other SEs (#1 with INK - both Hotbot and PureSearch) but they dont deliver traffic and MSN is schizophrenic. I would love to be more diverse in my traffic sources, but all I can do is build it and hope they come. With Google, they show up in droves - until Florida.

My vote is for Florida. No other update has been as sweeping in its changes for an industry as large as mine. Fortunately for me and unlike most, this is the slowest ime of year, but I feel for those who are closing up shop 4 weeks before Christmas.

super_seo




msg:227656
 6:36 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Florida is a b***h, for shear economical impact it is by far the most devastating.

For those sites and we know who you are that are flourishing right now, I didnít expect to hear too much from you as your new found wealth has had very little to do from even being present in these forums in the first place. This is a serious blow to free enterprise here, and with the comprehensive power of Google it is a direct and fatal strike. Not in this algorithm/filter necessarily, but in the actual direction its leading. I think someone had better start listening out there in never never land.

bunltd




msg:227657
 6:48 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Had to chew on that one for a while, but agree. I do well in other SEs (#1 with INK - both Hotbot and PureSearch) but they dont deliver traffic and MSN is schizophrenic. I would love to be more diverse in my traffic sources, but all I can do is build it and hope they come. With Google, they show up in droves - until Florida.

Kirby, that's about it. We do alright elsewhere, too, but the traffic just isn't there. For us this has been the worst update. Other updates gave us some minor fluctuation, but this has been a drop the top 10-20 folks and replace them with this that and the other (I'll grant you some are relevant, most are not)

LisaB

Powdork




msg:227658
 6:51 am on Dec 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

I hope the people at Yahoo are reading this. You've got a window of opportunity to make INK a real player again. Yahoo dump Google now, and start using INK.
There's a good chance Yahoverfasta is too busy counting the greenbacks this "adjustment" is making them to hear our pleas. They've probably been raking in a pretty penny since google decided to reward us with extra bandwidth.
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