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My site is getting hit for some very nasty phrases
People can be so disgusting
Nick_W




msg:245906
 9:32 am on Aug 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hi everyone,

I recently got a site indexed that is getting hits for some really dreadful phrases to do with 'little boys'.

It's a gift site, a clean one, but I use the word "sexy" to describle some of the products.

I think I might spend an hour writing a little php script to redirect these searchers to a "f* off" message.

Anyone else experience this kind of thing?

Nick

 

andreasfriedrich




msg:245936
 11:09 pm on Sep 20, 2002 (gmt 0)

speech <> action

mivox




msg:245937
 12:18 am on Sep 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

speech <> action

No, speech does not necessarily equal action... however, if someone is searching for inappropriate photos of minors, they are looking for the end product of a genuinely harmful and abusive activity, involving exceptionally helpless victims, whether or not they themselves ever have or ever will participate in such abuse directly.

Owning such material is considered a crime, in part because of the exceptional helplessness and impressionable nature of the victims, and if someone is deliberately searching it out, that (IMO) is reasonable cause to believe the searcher intends to view and possibly save (and therefore own) the material. Which, unless you work for a criminal investigation agency involved in tracking down and prosecuting people involved in such things, is legally inexcusable.

In the US, attempting to buy illegal drugs is a crime. Attempting to solicit prostitution is a crime. Inciting a riot is a crime. Threatening the life of the President is a crime. There are many situations in which a specific type/subject/style of speech is a reliable enough precursor to an activity considered harmful/dangerous enough that the speech itself is a crime.

I think the sort of "speech" Nick is finding in his logs can be reasonably assumed to be a precursor to involvement in crimes more serious and reprehensible than most of those listed in the previous paragraph... and as such, (IMO) whatever Nick can do to put an end to it is a good thing.

bird




msg:245938
 12:58 am on Sep 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

German police searched more than a thousand houses just this week, temporarily arresting more than hundred people who had been identified as customers of a previously busted online dealer in the US through their credit card numbers. More than 47000 data carriers and 25000 video tapes were confiscated.

There are indications that many of the arrested people didn't only buy the ugly stuff, but also produced and sold it themselves. Similar (but smaller) campaigns earlier this year already crushed two other trade rings.

This is not just a pervert or two. This is growing into a solid industry. If you have information that can help stop those folks, the relevant authorities probably won't turn you down when you present it to them.

jatar_k




msg:245939
 1:04 am on Sep 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

I have to say, when this thread resurfaced I had forgotten that the subject matter was so exceptionally offensive (and have mentioned to myself that I am an idiot many times since). Under most circumstances I would say who cares. I must retract my previous post and say that I really think that you are being entirely too nice Nick. I can think of many more interesting things to enhance these certain folk's surfing experience.

Make their stay at your site as offensive as possible and forward their IP's to any police you can think of.

gmoney




msg:245940
 3:13 am on Sep 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

If I were a Internet police officer, with the typical limited time and budget, trying to find child porn websites to BUST then I would head straight over to Google and conduct some “horrible” searches and if I found anything illegal, I would BUST them and LOCK THEM UP and not merely inconvenience them. However, it appears my progress would be delayed by people with good intentions trying to crash my computer.

c3oc3o




msg:245941
 3:44 am on Sep 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

if someone is deliberately searching it out, that (IMO) is reasonable cause to believe the searcher intends to view and possibly save (and therefore own) the material. Which, unless you work for a criminal investigation agency involved in tracking down and prosecuting people involved in such things, is legally inexcusable.

In the US, attempting to buy illegal drugs is a crime.

So, Google or any web site owner should also be turning everyone who searches for the words "buy drugs" (or even "buy [name of some drug]") in to the police? What should be done about someone who searches for the word "murder"?

I'm certainly not trying to excuse any crimes here, but you just have absolutely NO way of telling the intent, no matter what words were used in the query. It may be a reporter, a police offer, a self-assigned viligante, some other webmaster who saw it in his logs and wanted to see why his page is in the results, etc etc.

Go ahead and display a nasty warning to anyone with words you consider immoral in the query string, that's your perfect right.
But sending logs to police as some people suggested is, in my opinion, overreacting and also quite pointless.
What do you [don't get me wrong, not directed at anyone in particular!] expect to happen except you feeling a bit better about yourself? Do you believe the police are going to obtain search warrants for the ISPs and then the people themselves because of a quote out of your log file?

Macguru




msg:245942
 3:48 am on Sep 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

In Canada, police have to proove a transaction to make a case. Wich requires some work, to much work for the ressources they have.

Nick_W




msg:245943
 7:10 am on Sep 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

c3oc3o, I agree. I don't see any point in forwarding the IP's. I've tracked a few of them and they just come up in a huge block for some ISP anyway...

I've not written the script yet but it's my project for the day ;) I'd delayed as I hadn't had any more hits for a while but now I have 4 for this month (and the site got half a listing last update so once the links are counted this should rocket)

I'm plannning on displaying the search term in large letters and having onload="relaod the page in a new window" over and over...

If anyone has any other suggestions I'm open to ideas...

Nick

Chris_R




msg:245944
 7:21 am on Sep 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

There are people that search for that sort of stuff in an attempt to turn in sites offering child porn.

I work in the adult industry and have searched for those terms when tracking down some websites doing those sort of things. I would hate to think those sort of things would get me in trouble.

The government is doing a lot to shut down child porn.

There are many out there looking for illegal porn in an attempt to shut it down.

Sending them to another page really issn't going to accomplish much other than possibly make you feel better. If that is what you want - go for it, but you are probably better off just ignoring it.

The more traffic you get - the more problems you get. I used to try to solve every problem and win every battle, but it just isn't possible.

gmoney




msg:245945
 3:09 pm on Sep 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Nick_W,

Maybe that “huge block from some ISP” is from some government agency trying to eliminate child porn. Maybe your desire to continue to allow your Web page to come up as relevant on search engines for “dreadful” phrases containing “lit*le boys” and “s*xy” amounts to wasting some of the government agencies time as they visit your site and verify it is clean.

Added: Even if you are confident that this is not the case for these log entries then it still may be the case for future log entries.

Nick_W




msg:245946
 3:20 pm on Sep 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

I don't care. They'll live.

Nick

Nick_W




msg:245947
 3:32 pm on Sep 21, 2002 (gmt 0)


Well, I feel better now ;) Here's what I came up with in PHP. THe html is just 'onload' opening the same window in a continuos loop... Ultimately futile, of dubious benefit but enourmously satisfying!

[pre]
<?
/*This script takes care of some nasty search phrases my home page is
getting hit for. */

if($HTTP_REFERER) {
$url=parse_url($HTTP_REFERER);
$query=$url['query'];
if(strstr($query, "term1") && strstr($query, "term2") && strstr($query, "term3")) {
header("Location: /kill-my-pc/");
exit;
}
}
?>
[/pre]

Nick

gmoney




msg:245948
 11:16 pm on Sep 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Maybe some of the deranged/sick individuals who run across your program will actually like it as a form of Internet S&M. Whatever you do, don’t put a caption in there that says, “You’ve been very bad searcher, now Nick must punish you”:)

P.S. I am sorry if I offended anybody with my light hearted crack in such a serious thread. I just couldn’t help but poke a little fun at Nick and his efforts to “get 'em”. No hard feelings Nick, I hope your program helps more than it hurts.

Nick_W




msg:245949
 7:24 am on Sep 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

hehe, no worries!

Nick

mivox




msg:245950
 7:36 am on Sep 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

So, Google or any web site owner should also be turning everyone who searches for the words "buy drugs" (or even "buy [name of some drug]") in to the police? What should be done about someone who searches for the word "murder"?

Oh yes. That's exactly what I'm suggesting...

Now, back to reality.... It would be totally OT for me to go into my personal views on what should and shouldn't be a crime in the US... but suffice to say I think the s*xual abuse of minors and the purchase and/or use of illicit substances belong in two totally different categories.

And, IMO, if someone comes on my property in the pursuit of illegal material or substances, it's pretty much my right to call the police on them if I please. As far as that goes, I consider a website to be very much like a public business/storefront. If someone tries to conduct illegal activities in my business, it's totally within my legal rights to try to stop them and/or turn them in.

mfagan




msg:245951
 3:16 pm on Sep 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

My websites disclaimer states:
[my site] "contains no adult content. We are not responsible for any adult content which can be found using any of the search tools which we provide."

I often get people searching for "adult content." Oddly, they sometimes stay on my site for a long time.

Nick_W




msg:245952
 3:17 pm on Sep 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

hehe, I've nothing against 'a*ult content', hell, that's just human ;)

Nick

kmarcus




msg:245953
 5:35 pm on Sep 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

I must say that i am surprised that there are so many people who complain about this type of stuff. Youd think that with all the SEO business out there, many people have a tough time getting listed in the first place, let alone optimizing for their targetted terms. But, then there are people who complain about how they get listed when they are. Given that most search engines probably *try* to do a good job in the relevancy area and are likely open to suggestions/corrections, at a certain point, I'd think it's in the best interest of the engine just to drop the site all together.

europeforvisitors




msg:245954
 5:36 pm on Sep 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

Every day, I get referrals for "Julie Christie nude" because I have a page about Venice movies and videos that includes:

"Julie Christie" (in a description of a film set in Venice that starred Julie Christie)

"nude" (in the English title of an Italian film set in Venice, "Portrait of a Woman, Nude.")

I'm sure that some of my readers are disappointed when they can't find a picture of a naked Julie Christie on the page. :-)

A couple of years ago, when I was in a whimsical mood, I created a Paris photo-gallery page with a picture of three bronze statues in the Jardin des Tuileries and a caption that read:

"These nude women reflect the popularity of scuptural nudism as an artistic theme in Paris and throughout France."

It wasn't long until that page was getting several hundred page views a week--just as I'd expected. Obviously, there were a lot of search-engine users who wanted to know more about nude women and nudism in Paris and France. :-)

Nick_W




msg:245955
 5:43 pm on Sep 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

Yeah, were not talking about reguular adult searches thouht are we?

We're talking about ch*ld p*orn!

Not the same thing at all....

Nick

mack




msg:245956
 5:48 pm on Sep 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

well i tested something out last night that woudl give these searchers a bit of a wake up call.

At the top of the search results page it says...

" you searched for ch*ld P**n, You sad B****** your ip has been logged(164.637.736) and the authoraties have automaticaly been informed"

No mater who searches the ip address is always the same... because it is just from a text file but if they are not in the know it woudl be enough to give them a scare.

I think this whole sitution could be avoided from the search engines side if they did something similar and logged these searches and actualy passed the information on. Not adult searches but blatant searched like "kid p*rm" , "child Porn" etc. If peopel didnt feel safe searching for these terms, we wouldent have to worry about the referals.

jatar_k




msg:245957
 5:59 pm on Sep 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

That is not a good idea, they could block the phrases but if they start becoming a governing body and turning in people for entering search terms...well, 'nuff said.

That is completely OT though and we don't need to get into that discussion again.

I agree with mivox, it's your property, do what you want. In the case of these particular terms, I don't see a problem with shaking them up a bit. At any rate, Nick's site, Nick's choice.

electro




msg:245958
 10:38 pm on Sep 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

My 2 pence...

Maybe there is a good site to forward the wayward searchers to, like a site to help peodophiles reform. This way, you are giving out a clear message, and also doing something positive. I don't really think crashing their computers or making empty threats will get to the root of the problem, but helping these individuals help themselves would be a positive thing, IMHO.

Also, if it were my site, I would immediatly remove the offending word combination...

c3oc3o




msg:245959
 11:34 pm on Sep 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

I totally agree with electro.
A quick search on Google (of course if mack were king, I'd already be the target of an FBI investigation by now) found this "abuse prevention worksheet", apparently written by a pedophile for himself to control his urges.
I'd imagine forwarding or linking to that (which of course raises the problem of not making it seem like you wrote it) would help a lot more than just tossing a few angry popups at the visitor.

[edited by: agerhart at 1:57 pm (utc) on Sep. 23, 2002]
[edit reason] No URL drops please [/edit]

Nick_W




msg:245960
 7:27 am on Sep 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

Mack, that's exactly what I did! Right down to the 'my IP has been emailed to the authorities' ;)

Useless in real terms but like you said, maybe a wake up call to these losers...

Nick

electro




msg:245961
 1:33 pm on Sep 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

These people may not be "sad B******" or "looser", they are sick individuals who find it hard to stay within the rules layed down by society. Like I said, calling them names, making empty threats that probably wont amount to much, and causing them problems with their computer will probably not help anyone, and may just exasperate their situation. Either do something positive, or remove the word 'sexy' from your page. Becoming an internet cop is probably not the thing to do.

Nick_W




msg:245962
 1:41 pm on Sep 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: It's my site!

I'll not change my text, there is nothing wrong with it.

Nick

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