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Certified Advanced Search Engine Positioning Specialist
Has anyone ever heard of such a thing?
lioness

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 9:04 pm on Aug 18, 2002 (gmt 0)

I did a search on Google and came up empty. Does anyone know what this means, and what the certification consists of?

 

Marcia

WebmasterWorld Senior Member marcia us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 9:19 pm on Aug 18, 2002 (gmt 0)

lioness, I heard of it, if I'm not mistaken I think you can pay a school (maybe an organization). It's a little vague, it's been a while.

That would be very touchy, establishing criteria for what constitutes advanced. For one thing, what could be considered advanced today might not work next month, and what's to stop certified people from getting PR0 and taking clients with them, not even accidentally. And they'd still have their certification.

They can certify passing a test but they can't certify for experience and the value of observation. Things change so fast that if someone who's qualified doesn't keep up they won't be very qualified for long.

On the other hand, people might believe it's worth something. A lot still pay good money for subitting to hundreds, including FFA's, with sites that never get touched that can't even be spidered. I've had a few of those that got taken through that route by "specialists".

[edited by: Marcia at 9:23 pm (utc) on Aug. 18, 2002]

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 9:21 pm on Aug 18, 2002 (gmt 0)

Its a certification from a certain online web training organization.

bigjohnt

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 12:30 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

Oneupsmanship on the unsuspecting masses.

Okay... Now, I will compose my business card to read "Certified Advanced Fuel Injected Search Engine Positioning Specialist Par Excellence." Or perhaps "Certified Master Web Marketer" -certified of course by myself, having learned and taught the coursework successfully...

Meaningless to those "in the know." A sales tool for the course.

john316

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 1:00 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

I think the only legitimate certificates are handwritten on the back of napkins from the pub conferences. ;)

web_india

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 1:05 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

sounds interesting, anyone certified here ;)

Tapolyai

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 1:10 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

You might want to look at seoconsultants.com. They seem to have a very specific criteria to include someone in their database.

lioness

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 1:29 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

That's why I asked. Someone is marketing themselves as a CASEPS to some of the lists I lurk on (some of the lists that you may also be familiar w/ Marcia). So far, I haven't seen any mis information. However, on these lists, if one person receives any information, they broadcast it to all the group(s) as word of god.

chiyo

WebmasterWorld Senior Member chiyo us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 1:35 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

I think most WebmasterWorld members should be certified

lioness

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 1:52 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

What's also interesting is that the website of the CASEPS has a grey tool bar....

Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 1:55 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

hehe - that's a baaaad sign Lioness.

lioness

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 2:10 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

Yes, Brett, my friend, it's a baaaaaaaad sign. I did post to that particular group a word of caution (at least if I get kicked of that list, my webmasterworld friends will still love me....). In that particular group, there are many sole proprietors trying to build an online business on a shoestring budget (read $0). Many of the members do their own web sites, and, often times, misinformation is passed around like wildfire. As Marcia mentioned, several have paid good money to 'specialists' w/ bad results. Others have created their own bad results for free.

Chris_R

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 2:12 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

Any formal "group" of SEOs is just plain funny.

Not as funny as the email I saw today asking for only $5.00 a day to "keep my listing" in their propietary dmoz directory.

Receptional

WebmasterWorld Administrator receptional us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 2:24 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

>Any formal "group" of SEOs is just plain funny

I disagree. Most professions have trade bodies and eventually SEOs will too, although I would argue that "Internet Marketing" is a better umbrella.

There are already a number of pretenders to the throne and at least one had 50 delegates to its worldwide conference last year, so it is more than just "smoke and mirrors".

Dixon.

Chris_R

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 2:38 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

What would be the purpose?

An SEO is only as good as his or her listings. Very rarely do you see people that will put those out.

What a person "knows" about SEO is irrelevant. I see people on the boards all the time that hold themselves out as professionals that are lucky if they can get listed for their full names.

I think the VAST majority of people that attempt to do this for a living have no clue what they are doing.

The only certification that matters:

Where sites that have "hired" you are listed.

I have seen arguments for ethical standards - that is almost as bad.

This is the one occupation that SHOULD be easy for outsiders to judge, but isn't for most people.

It is like a stock broker (who does investment advice) - you can give them a series seven test, but the only thing that really matters - is how much money they have made off their portfolio (assuming it has been done over a period of time that puts skill to the test).

tbear

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 4:58 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

chiyo > I think most WebmasterWorld members should be certified

He he, most of my buddies think 'I' should be certified. Don't they realise it's NOT ME, it's the rest of the world!
blubber, blubber.......
:)

Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 5:04 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

I see people on the boards all the time that hold themselves out as professionals that are lucky if they can get listed for their full names.

It's one of the few things in this business that gets me a bit warm under the collar.

The following is a joke floating around the net (got it from Engine). It describes seo to a T:

A city boy, Kenny, moved to the country and bought a donkey from an old farmer for $100.00.

The farmer agreed to deliver the donkey the next day.

The next day the farmer drove up and said, "Sorry son, but I have some bad news, the donkey died."

Kenny replied, "Well then, just give me my money back."

The farmer said, "Can't do that. I went and spent it already."

Kenny said, "OK then, at least give me the donkey."

The farmer asked, "What ya gonna do with him?"

Kenny, "I'm going to raffle him off."

Farmer, " You can't raffle off a dead donkey!"

Kenny, "Sure I can. Watch me. I just won't tell anybody he is dead."

A month later the farmer met up with Kenny and asked, "What happened with that dead donkey?"

Kenny, "I raffled him off. I sold 500 tickets at two dollars a piece and made a profit of $898.00."

Farmer, "Didn't anyone complain?"

Kenny, " Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two dollars back."

Kenny grew up and eventually became the chairman of Enr0n


Knowles

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 5:13 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

Thats good Brett!

I am sure alot of people claim to be professionals that are not or are not quite up to par on what they are claiming to talk about. This is the main reason I say its a hobby for me, I dont trust myself enough to jump in and try to do it pro. I dont hink I would try for an SEO Cert though it changes way to often for that. With most Certs the stuff changes but the base normally stays the same. There is no base in SEO that I have found at least.

JayC

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 5:21 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

The problem with this or any other certification from any organization that no one has ever heard of is: what qualifies them as being the authorities? Hmm.... are they certified?

Especially in an area as filled with misinformation and misunderstanding as seo is, there's no reason at all to think that these people or anyone they "certify" are any more knowledgeable or qualified than the average person off the street.

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 5:26 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

I can personally tell you from reviewing over 354 SEO/SEM websites that certification means next to nothing. As a matter of fact, a good portion of those certified didn't pass muster on a number of review guidelines that we have in place.

Until our industry has one certifiable resource where people can be trained on the intracacies of our business, the certifications are just a piece of paper and you also get some neat little icons to place on your site! ;)

Brett, that Enr0n story is a perfect case in point!

WebRookie

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 8:12 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

In terms of SEO/SEM, academics are helpful, but that doesn't always equal experience and hard work.

Love the story, Brett.

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 8:28 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

> In terms of SEO/SEM, academics are helpful, but that doesn't always equal experience and hard work.

WebRookie, you are dead on with that statement. The problem I see is with the academics portion. Many proclaimed SEO professionals have sort of retired from the everyday bump and grind. Some may have done it a few years ago and then decided to earn an income from their gained knowledge.

Unfortunately, we are seeing knowledge being shared that is somewhat dated. In fact, I've spoken to a few via email who thought the way they were doings things was exceptable. They knew nothing about PR, they knew nothing about the penalties that are being dished out, and their pages were borderline gateway spam.

Do you know how many SEO's are out there that are still using a popular program to build, submit and deploy so called optimized sites? The number is staggering.

If the instructors of a proclaimed SEO institution for training are not keen on the daily trends of our industry, the methods of teaching are lacking some very important elements. If they are teaching the core basics without any gray area techniques, then they are one step ahead. The core basics to me are site and directory structure. Without those two, the optimization is not complete.

Chris_R

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 9:32 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

The problem with this or any other certification from any organization that no one has ever heard of is: what qualifies them as being the authorities? Hmm.... are they certified?
Especially in an area as filled with misinformation and misunderstanding as seo is, there's no reason at all to think that these people or anyone they "certify" are any more knowledgeable or qualified than the average person off the street.

exactly - this isn't like MCSE (or whatever it is now) - you can't just have an objective test - unless the Search Engines are going to administer it (which obviously they are not).

The amount of disinformation about search engines is huge. Even among "experts". 90% of SEO stuff on the web is still about meta-tags. One day I am going to write a book.

One day I will tell you about the trick that google TOLD us about - and yet - NO ONE on this board (or anywhere else) uses it.

No wonder people have problems - they believe what they read (so did I). I only started to learn how things really worked - when I started to rely on FACTS and not what people think. Excel is the best friend of a real SEO.

Jane_Doe

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jane_doe us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 10:10 pm on Aug 19, 2002 (gmt 0)

Cute joke, Brett.

I got a spam email the other day for a book on search engine positioning. I checked out the web page for the book, and one of the promises it made was to show people how to avoid search engine penalties. The interesting part was the web page for the book had a PR0!

WebRookie

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 12:50 am on Aug 20, 2002 (gmt 0)

>>The core basics to me are site and directory structure.

Absolutely. If the site structure has problems, the search engine spiders may not be able to click a link, spider text or reach a directory. One site I helped work on recently has so many validation problems that the only text on the home page became two big links without ending tags that can't be spidered. Not good.

What about the user? If the user can navigate well through the website, then typically the spiders can. Usability, common sense and tons of research add up to staying on top of things.

Pushycat

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 1:06 am on Aug 20, 2002 (gmt 0)

Chris_R, did you really mention MCSE? I was thinking about that through this entire thread. I want to be an MCSE so I made myself a Master Certified Search Expert and call myself an MCSE. :)

Chris_R

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 1:11 am on Aug 20, 2002 (gmt 0)

I was studying for the MCSE until I got caught up with google :)

torakai

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 9:06 am on Aug 20, 2002 (gmt 0)

I have just qualified with the academy of web specalists as an SEO. I didn't have to pay for the course, my work did and they seem to think that the certificate is worth something and as a matter of fact so do I. It took 16 weeks of hard work to learn how and especially why things can work the way they do and i acknowledge that the business changes very quickly and its now part of my daily work to read ( a lot !) but now i am paid more with my certificate than without it and at the end of the day if i can produce results and i get a fat pay check I am happy and my company is happy.

I would highly recommend the course run by Robin Nobles, Bill Gentry and a few others but the personal tuition I received from them was worth the price of the course alone.

I like my certificate too ! In a couple of months i am going on to do the Advanced SEO course and i will have another certificate and if i can swing it a pay rise too.

I do understand though that i am only as good as the results i can produce but with a good knowledge base behind me and a few months of se work i feel like a real SEO.

Napoleon



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 9:34 am on Aug 20, 2002 (gmt 0)

>> One day I will tell you about the trick that google TOLD us about - and yet - NO ONE on this board (or anywhere else) uses it. <<

Oh go on... be a chum. We promise not to tell anyone else.

Tor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1308 posted 9:46 am on Aug 20, 2002 (gmt 0)

I do understand though that i am only as good as the results i can produce but with a good knowledge base behind me and a few months of se work i feel like a real SEO.

It`s a good starting point but like all other education the real process of learning starts after the exams. :)

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