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SE cheat idea, what would stop it working...?
im sure this is stupid but...
Harley_m




msg:237594
 8:35 pm on Jul 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

1) What would stop you putting a tiny button (a full stop way at the bottom) which when rolled over, would display a great big lot of not spammed keywords, but a great bulk of text extremely keyword rich...? surely the bots cant detect that that isnt a perfectly reasonable feature of a site...?

Just a thought, and im sure it wouldnt work, but it would be interesting to know why not...

Harley

 

korkus2000




msg:237595
 8:37 pm on Jul 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Why not add the great bulk of text extremely keyword rich in your content? Why hide it?

agerhart




msg:237596
 8:38 pm on Jul 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Harley_m,

I think this follows along the same idea of this discussion: Google and Invisible Text [webmasterworld.com]. You should also remember that sites are hand reviewed and penalties are awarded this way as well.

diddlydazz




msg:237597
 8:39 pm on Jul 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

best advice I can give is avoid tricks like that as they can get you BANNED and sometimes you can never get back into an index WITHOUT getting a new domain.

No-one can say "yeah that's alright" as SEs change their spam filters on a regular basis.

If in doubt DONT do it.

Dazz

<added> Dont spam unless you KNOW what you are doing and even then IMO it is not necessary if your site DESERVES a ranking</added>

4eyes




msg:237598
 8:44 pm on Jul 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

The threat is not the spam filters of the SEs but rather your competition 'turning you in'.

If it wouldn't pass a hand inspection, don't risk it.

Harley_m




msg:237599
 9:43 pm on Jul 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I do totally 100% agree with the comment "a site deserves its ranking", and on the whole i disagree with sneeky tactics, because as a computer and SE user, i want to find good sites, not sites with clever webmasters...

But...in some cases its not that easy, for example one site i have involved in doesnt sell widgits, or isnt able to say funky gadget 50 times each page, its for a very unique audience, and doesnt get millions of people typing what its about into SE's all day long. but it does appeal very much to many people who search for other things related to it...its just a differnt look on things and therefore this makes SEO very tough...rather like marketing an amazing toy called "X" that no one has ever heard of, you want lots of kids to come and see it, cos they would all love it, but they dont type in "X", they type in "cool toys" - now beacuse your site is www.X.com and because no one knows to look for X.com, you want people who search for "cool stuff" to get there...but dont want to/or cant fill your site with "cool stuffed"...therefore you want to try to perfectly innoccently 'trick' people into visiting your site so they find out about soemthing they do in fact want to see...just dont know it yet...

See what i mean...?


TWhalen




msg:237600
 11:49 pm on Jul 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I see your point Harley, but it would still be considered spam. You may have 'innocent' intentions about it, but you would still be (in essence) trying to subvert the SE's relevancy algorithms to fulfil your own self-serving purposes - i.e. - spam.

Use Korkus2000's adice: Just write keyword rich content containing the keywords you're after in a creative way that relates them to your website. Why hide the text?

The problem is, most people seem to get very 'creative' when it comes to trying to cheat, when they should spend more time being 'creative' trying to do things the CORRECT way.

paynt




msg:237601
 2:49 am on Jul 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

This

The problem is, most people seem to get very 'creative' when it comes to trying to cheat, when they should spend more time being 'creative' trying to do things the CORRECT way.

is my quote of the week. Thank you Twhalen, very true. Of course, who’s to say what the “right” way is and in SEO I refuse to make a judgment call on SEO practices, mainly because in my past I too was an excellent “spammer” [still waffling on what the term actually means].

I am so happy to see this group jump in with warnings though and I applaud that. I’m also excited to see you jump in and post your sneaky little idea Harley_m, <aside>welcoming you to Webmaster World.

A part of me just laps that stuff up, wondering if I’ll find the client not only with the pocket to support tricking the engines but the courage to take that kind of financial risk. I'm certainly not willing to do it with my own stuff. It’s so much work to build up a web site and there are just not a lot of people these days willing or eager to risk throwing something so valuable away. I don’t hang with that crowd any more I guess, except maybe behind closed doors:)

ukgimp




msg:237602
 8:35 am on Jul 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

Would this not be the time to consider other marketing methods to build up brand recognition for toy "X" insead of just search engine referals.

2p's worth (from england I am, we dont have cents ;-)

surfer




msg:237603
 4:19 pm on Jul 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

Is it not worth creating a site around "cool toys" or whatever people ARE typing in, not for spammy link-popularity purposes, but in order to educate people that this "toy" does exist?

I appreciate that it's hard work writing content, reviewing other products, etc, but as the others say, if you can create a perfectly "legal" good-content site which helps everyone, and ranks well under the keywords "cool toys" (or whatever), then make sure the original site is well linked to SO THAT PEOPLE ARE MADE AWARE of the "toy" and can easily get to the sales site (rather than for link popularity) - then it will stay in the listings (if it is legal and well coded with good content) for a long time.

A better investment of time perhaps?

HTH

Harley_m




msg:237604
 7:10 pm on Jul 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

ahh yes, feeder sites...a very good observation. i'll have to think hard how i could do it, but perhaps i might do something like that....

thanks...

paynt




msg:237605
 7:26 pm on Jul 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

Welcome to Webmaster World surfer,

Very nice post. Please, stick around and continue to contribute.

glengara




msg:237606
 8:15 am on Jul 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'm with Surfer on this, you don't even need feeder sites, just sufficient "informational" content on the subject.

IMO, going "informational" is becoming increasingly necessary for commercial sites for listing, linking, and ranking purposes.

Harley_m




msg:237607
 10:45 am on Jul 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

GlenGara, i 100% agree with the theory behind that...i would much prefer a site that has a nice design on the front, coupled with the ability to go in depth on any given product or subject. But i personally dont think that a user should instantly be bombarded with piles of text as the first thing they see, just because its helped them get them there via an engine. Its all about great structure layout....giving the visitor a great wealth of information and tools at there disposal, without piling it right up before their eyes. Its that difficult problem of how to mix tons of what they want, with the simplicity of a great site...

incywincy




msg:237608
 10:51 am on Jul 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

what's wrong with creating a page that describes how your new unknown toy is so much better than existing known toys, maybe comapring them. this would enable you to load your page with the keywords that users are searching for.

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