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Building a "simple" hobby website
25 things to figure out
j_h_maccann




msg:967184
 11:59 pm on Dec 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Recently I set up a fairly serious "hobby" website of a few hundred pages, aimed at providing information only (no commerce or advertising, completely non-commercial).

I had spent a lot of time working on the content for visitors, and on its organization. But I was amazed at how many different programs and webservices I then had to figure out just to make the "plumbing" work. For each of these, I had to research the alternatives and make a choice:

1. Site creation software. The entire site was coded directly in html/css/javascript, and is entirely static (no database access at all, no server-side programming). But for any site that consists of hundreds of pages you need tools for inserting repeated elements, checking internal and external links, doing the bookkeeping to update the server with changed pages, and so forth. You can't manage many thousands of links simply by being careful.

2. Site hosting service. I had to identify a host with sufficient reliability, quality support, excellent web connections, and all of the server resources I would rely upon. (If I had been contracting for a server and doing my own admin, this would have been much harder--but even identifying a reliable host today is difficult.)

3. DNS infrastructure service. If my host suffers any kind of interruption, I can mirror the site elsewhere quickly but I don't want to wait for standard DNS to get visitors re-directed to the new location. So I needed to find the best ultra-reliable DNS infrastructure service, set up an account, and get the domain's DNS records set up. Now a new IP for the site can be effective in just a few minutes. (This is more vanity than necessity--but with hundreds of visitors a day from all over the world, I really don't want to disappear without a trace for a couple of days.)

4. Site backup service. For years of data, can't take a chance that it would be lost. So each night the entire site (as it is on the server plus pages in progress) is automatically backed up over the internet to two geographically-separated data centres not connected to the hosting service or to me. (This seems to me to be a necessity.)

5. Site-search service. Needed to find an affordable site indexing service, write the templates to make custom search, result, and sitemap pages, and mark my content to guide the indexer for highest-quality site-search. (Would have been more work to host the site-search myself.)

6. Giant file submission service. One goal is to have site visitors contribute further material, so needed to identify a service to permit anyone to upload files (up to 1GB) free and to send me mail so I could retrieve the contribution.

7. Site audio and video. The site serves some audio and video files, so needed to identify which formats to use, and then provide links so users could download the needed free players (latest versions for many browsers/systems).

8. Site PDF documents. Same for PDF, needed to choose which version of PDF to use and identify and provide links for users to download the free reader.

9. Site custom websearch. One service of the site is to offer custom searches of other sites (singly or in arbitrarily-chosen collections), so needed to decide which websearch engine was best to use via api, and understand their code and requirements.

10. Site statistics analysis service. The host provides logs for exhaustive analysis, but it's also convenient to have live reports, so need to identify the best "analytics" service, and put its javascript hooks into all the pages and into all the links to non-HTML files (thousands of measure points).

11. Updates email list service. The site offers users the opportunity to subscribe to update notifications. Need to identify the best webservice for this, understand their api for signups and unsubscribes, and understand how their system works to compose acknowledgements and emails, how to get reports on sends and opens, how to manage mailing lists. This whole area is very complicated, with legal requirements and impediments to email being delivered. (But hosting the email myself would be much more time-consuming and less successful.)

12. Updates RSS feed service. Similarly, the site offers users an RSS feed for update notifications. This has gotten complicated also, so I needed first a local program to actually compose the RSS feed, and then a webservice that could take a feed in one standard format and re-offer it to aggregators in any one of the half-dozen standard formats, and provide me statistics about usage.

13. Google sitemap service. Seems prudent to let Google have a crib on where to look, so that means a program to scan the site and make an up-to-date sitemap in G format, plus an account with the G webservice to register and monitor that all is OK.

14. Website CD production service. The website offers its content on a CD, so need to identify the best CD production and fulfillment service, set up a storefront and customize it, get CD content and images to the account.

15. Google Adwords service. Want people to find the new site, so need to understand enough of the Adwords system to open an account and get a campaign with some adverts and keywords going, plus infinite amounts of refinement.

16. Apache .htaccess file. Need to get the example.com 301'd to the www.example.com, plus need to 301 all the pages from a former site to the corresponding pages on the new site.

(17. Forums service. Fortunately, I didn't have to understand and install a forums package, since that's not a feature, though it would be on many sites.)

(18. Weblog service. Similarly, this site doesn't feature a weblog, so I was spared another large task. But most sites would need to have a weblog package either hosted or installed, with a great deal of customization to understand.)

All of this is in addition to the "expected" work of understanding the (19) HTML, the (20) CSS, and the (21) JavaScript needed to write the pages themselves, plus understanding (22) PhotoShop to prepare all the photos. Also, I haven't enumerated the "standard" parts of a traditional website, such as a (23) robots.txt, a (24) favicon.ico, and a (25) custom 404 error page.

This struck me as quite a lot of different things to figure out and understand in order to get a rather commonplace and unremarkable hobby website off the ground. Webmastering has gotten a lot more complicated over the last few years. Fortunately, all of these things are discussed informatively on WebmasterWorld (where I learned about most of them--by searching with Google, when that was possible).

 

BadSense




msg:967185
 12:31 am on Dec 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

Great post. Although many tasks you did don't apply to several websites (ie 1gb file transfers, website on CD, etc), it's still a nice reminded of what creating a new site entails.

mack




msg:967186
 4:49 am on Jan 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Awsome post, thank you very much for sharing your findings with us. It really drives home the point about a webmaster not relly meaning the same thing it used to. A webmaster used to be in charge of every aspect of the site. Now if there is a webmaster he/she will be head of web development, with programers, designers, artists and much more below workign on differen aspects of the site. The days of a webmaster doing everythign single handed are not far from being "old news"

Thank you very much for sharing this with us.

Mack.

Namaste




msg:967187
 1:45 pm on Jan 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

why not use Geocities? Or GoDaddy?

RailMan




msg:967188
 1:54 pm on Jan 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

think about all the time you spent learning all that just for one hobby website

you could have employed a web designer / developer to do the whole lot for you for very little cost and (if they have the experience!) they'll almost certainly have done a better job than you've done!

(note that i have no idea if your site looks good / ranks well in search engines / is cross browser compatible / compliant with relevant laws etc etc etc!)

you could have spent all that time with your friends or family, or enjoying yourself, and maybe a little bit of that time doing a bit of extra work to earn the money to pay for the web designer

sadly thousands of business owners build their own websites then wonder why they don't make any sales .....

AffiliateDreamer




msg:967189
 2:47 pm on Jan 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

RailMan, what your saying is true, but I would say that if it was his first experience at building a website from the groud up, he will be in a better position to build sites in the future. Now for future projects he knows exactly what components he will need to hire out and others he can do himself.

This is just like hundreds of people who pay someone to build a dynamic site and they hire the wrong people, if someone has some programming experience he can do his own code reviews etc. since he understands the mechanics of what has to get done.

zulu_dude




msg:967190
 2:53 pm on Jan 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

I totally agree with AffiliateDreamer... having experience with all the different facets of web design allows one to be far more effective in outsourcing work and seperating the genuine operators from the scammers when outsourcing the work.

When one has enough experience and knowledge, then RailMan is quite correct, it is far better to outsource than to be a 'one man band'.

Kirby




msg:967191
 3:31 pm on Jan 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Great list and observations.

>you could have employed a web designer / developer to do the whole lot for you for very little cost and (if they have the experience!) they'll almost certainly have done a better job than you've done!

That is not a given. Many "web designer/developers" out there wouldnt be able to make that post.

Mack, excellent points. Being a soup to nuts webmaster may soon be passe, but the experience is invaluable in transitioning to project manager.

girish




msg:967192
 5:10 pm on Jan 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

I also just launched a new site last week (click on profile). This is a non-commercial virtual museum with a one-of-a-kind collection of antique documents in a specialized field.

I began my collection as a hobby two years ago. (I'm an insurance agent and these documents relate to my field.) I bought most of these docs at online auctions. I've spent $15k so far to buy the 300+ docs (average $50 each). I had two in-house programmers design the site during the past year. Another employee scanned all the documents and researched descriptions for each. I also hired a content provider -rewriter - to make sure everything was unique on the internet. My direct payroll costs to these employees is over $32k. Some of that cost (perhaps $10-$15k) is attributable to several re-designs which may have resulted from poor planning and inexperience on both my part and that of the web developers. When I add the value of my time spent searching and paying for these documents online (my "hobby") and the time I spent consulting with and directing the various employees - I think I easily have spent more than 400 hours on this project. Since my time is billed out at more than $100+ an hour, these 400 hours add another $40k to the "cost" of this project. So all told this museum has a cost-to-date of nearly $90k. Of course, the $15k spent on the documents will probably retain their value or maybe even increase over time, and some of my time spent on this was recreational and had psychological rewards.

Should I be concerned about never recouping my investment? While the museum site is non-commercial it may eventually generate commercial benefits. If the site comes to be seen as an authority site in this field and I (as its curator) am considered an authority in my field then perhaps the site will yield an indirect commercial benefit.

By the way - since the launch a few days ago I was expecting a sandbox effect and was not particulary concerned about the site's ranking. Imagine my surprise to find the site ranking #1 on google for the two words that make up the domain name since the first day it was launched. It is #4 for the same on yahoo. The site has 400 pages of original content and photos. Maybe the sandbox will not apply.

topsites




msg:967193
 7:26 pm on Jan 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

I agree it's a royal pita, thou what I found frustrated me the worst is the copious amount of misleading and often outright false information concerning either the entire subject or parts of it.

You know: Build your own Website in 15 minutes - It's fast, easy, and free...!
And that's one of the more innocent ones.

As for some of the other stuff...
> you could have employed a web designer / developer to do the whole lot for you for very little cost and (if they have the experience!) they'll almost certainly have done a better job than you've done!

While some charge around 20 dollars a page, for a 200+ page site that would cost four thousand for starters. The next problem is, if you don't build it, you can't upgrade it / make changes and you always fork out more money. Last but not least, most site-builders' skills do not impress me.

> sadly thousands of business owners build their own websites then wonder why they don't make any sales .....

Sadder yet, thousands more pay someone else money, then wonder all the same.

A business that performs work for me usually takes the project out of my hands... For example when I take my car to a mechanic, the problem is fixed without further interaction from me. But then the problem is only a tiny piece of the whole car, and that leads to:
With web-design, I still have to provide a ton of stuff, there is so much work involved that hiring someone else is hardly practical, seeing how I have to do most of it myself, anyway.

And here begins the next problem... A designer who can do more than the 20-dollar/page guy usually also charges more, and suddenly I'm up to 100+ dollars/page in the deep, times 200 pages = 20 thousand dollars.

Although I can see where the designer's motivation comes from, I feel for that kind of money I had better have a site as good as google or msn.com and it better rank likewise, and for that matter I would rather pay after I see results. I understand this is unreasonable expectation, but then what is reasonable when the end result can not be predicted, and at least half the time turns out poorly?

So with hired designers it's like with reliable hosting, good luck finding one worth your hard-earned cash.

[edited by: topsites at 7:46 pm (utc) on Jan. 1, 2006]

Beverly




msg:967194
 7:39 pm on Jan 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

I am at the beginning stage of building my first website. I would not have even known all those steps had to be done. Is there anyone out there that could make some good book recommendations that would explain all of these things? Thanks!

unperturbed




msg:967195
 11:11 pm on Jan 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

I guess some simple sites are more simple than others. The one in the first post does not seem that simple to me and I fear it could overwhelm someone just starting out.

With a lot of hobby sites it wouldn’t really matter that much if the site went down for a few hours or even a day. Bob can read about frank’s pet widget another day.

If It’s a static site, the files would be on the creators local machine and can be backed up to disk and would be no different to what’s on the server. So no multiple daily back ups needed.

jtara




msg:967196
 11:35 pm on Jan 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've been a webmaster off and on for about 10 years. I worked for a consulting firm that did some early eCommerce sites for some big names, started one of the first outdoor webcams, and ran an investing discussion board for several years, on highly modified open source Perl software. So, I've done this the hard way.

I'm in the process of developing a new site, a kind of directory of establishments (drinking establishments, to be exact...) and I think I've settled on TikiWiki as a platform.

It strikes me that TikiWiki would be quite suitable for a lot of personal and hobbyist sites.

You have to look beyond the "wiki" part. That's ideal for my directory, because that is what I want - a directory that my users can insure is up-to-date.

But "wiki" is a misnomer in this case, because TikiWiki is also a rather complete CMS with a ton of components, including blogs, articles, forums, chat, photo gallery, RSS support, mobile support, etc. etc. etc. It includes just about every style of user interaction you can imagine.

It seems it might be particularly suitable for hobbyist sites where the site author might want to share the authoring duties with others in a controlled fashion.

The look out-of-the-box is a bit busy and techie. But it is highly customizable.

Since it's non-commercial and free-as-in-beer, I think I can get away with dropping a link, right?

[tikiwiki.org...]

I think there's a list there somewhere of ISPs that either routinely or on request will pre-install it with a web hosting package.

Anyway, just wanted to suggest that anybody building a hobby website give this a good look, even if you don't need or haven't considered incorporating a wiki.

jsinger




msg:967197
 12:02 am on Jan 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Those who started in the mid-90s have such a benefit. Then, one could glue together a tiny kludgey site, and learn slowly. Your site was bad... but so were most. And you could make good money while groping along.

I'm a business owner who got into building sites as a hobby years ago. Yes, there are SO many required skills, PLUS the constant need to learn new things.

Did someone mention the graphic skills required? Lord, I've seen websites ruined by an owner or even a hired hand who is clueless when it comes to photos or other graphics.

--
Think of all the additional skills required for a commerce site: Credit card processing and security, customer service, fulfillment, inventory management...the list goes on and on.


europeforvisitors




msg:967198
 2:27 am on Jan 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

I guess some simple sites are more simple than others. The one in the first post does not seem that simple to me

I agree. A hobby site, or even a site that earns a good income, doesn't need to be that complicated--especially when the publisher is just starting out.

Also, the real issues facing most Web publishers are more fundamental: What purpose does the site serve, who's the target audience, and how can the traffic be monetized (if the publisher is hoping to earn a living from the site)?

I've seen Web publishers get bogged down in technical details (e.g., by trying to set up a CMS for a modest homebrew site that could just as easily be built and maintained in FrontPage) when their business plans have consisted of "I guess I'll join AdSense and stick on some Amazon links."

dcheney




msg:967199
 3:20 am on Jan 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

I think most of us with hobby/information type sites started out gradually. One of my main projects started out on a free hosting service using hand-made pages.

From there it grew and I started generating the pages using a database.

Later I started using a paid hosting service.

Since logs became available at this point, I started using basic log analysis tools.

Also this was when it became possible to supported user feedback through a form (rather than just putting an email address on the site).

Next step was to get my own domain name.

Then I added a "group" (email list) to announce changes.

Later that was supplemented with a blog (and RSS feed) to provide more information about changes.

No doubt I'll continue to add additional things that I don't expect. But for most newbies, just start working on the content. You don't have to learn how to do everything on day 1.

Obviously for an e-commerce site things would be different.

topr8




msg:967200
 10:38 am on Jan 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

what a very comprehensive original post.

i'd only add that i think considering using a database would have been a good idea, it may well have tied in with many easier many of the other points raised.

persinally i wouldn't consider making a site that isn't db driven anymore, even the smallest sites - even if the db is just local and you generate the pages locally and ftp them to the host.

RailMan




msg:967201
 11:04 am on Jan 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

While some charge around 20 dollars a page, for a 200+ page site that would cost four thousand for starters ... and suddenly I'm up to 100+ dollars/page in the deep, times 200 pages = 20 thousand dollars.

where you're going wrong here is that a pro simply woouldn't create 200+ static pages - a pro would create a simple database with simple content management - total cost will be much lower

Many "web designer/developers" out there wouldnt be able to make that post.

sure there are a lot of wannabe "web designers" out there - they've created their first website with frontpage / dreamweaver etc, then set up their own web design agency

you don't need to know the ins and outs of a ducks bottom to know how to find a good web developer - many good web developers will describe sites and technologies in their portfolios - find sites you like or that do what you need, find out who the developers are, then find out the technologies / skills used - then contact lots of developers with that type of site in their portfolio / client list

Tigrou




msg:967202
 6:25 pm on Jan 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

RailMan, I take your point that if it's a one time deal or a small part of business, it's much better for business owners to get a solid designer to do the work.


you don't need to know the ins and outs of a ducks bottom to know how to find a good web developer - many good web developers will describe sites and technologies in their portfolios - find sites you like or that do what you need, find out who the developers are, then find out the technologies / skills used - then contact lots of developers with that type of site in their portfolio / client list

Disagree on this though. People with a good portfolio just pass the first cut. Then you have to see who on your shortlist really is competent, trustworthy, deliver on time, have an ego smaller than the universe, ...

vincevincevince




msg:967203
 6:56 pm on Jan 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

where you're going wrong here is that a pro simply woouldn't create 200+ static pages - a pro would create a simple database with simple content management - total cost will be much lower

That is all a question of quality and the site itself.

Individually hand-customised and designed pages feature both at the bottom and the top of the web-design 'quality' pile. They don't feature much in the middle.

If I were to create a website which I believed would be the very best I could do, I'd not use any templating system.

RailMan




msg:967204
 10:51 am on Jan 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

seems to me like there's a lot of paranoia about hiring in pro designers / developers

i wonder if those that are paranoid are also paranoid about using motor mechanics to fix their cars? or about using builders to build an extension to their house? personally i'd rather trust and pay someone with the necessary skills and knowledge than attempt to do the job myself

yes there are some incompetent designers / developers, but there are plenty of good, honest, reliable ones too
talk of $20,000 or $100,000 for a small to medium website is, quite simply, nonsense

the bottom line is it pays to save time and hire in someone with the skills and knowledge, whether it's a motor mechanic, builder or web developer

it's just a case of shopping around and finding the right company to hire ........ it's not rocket science, it's not going to force you into bankruptcy, it's just plain common sense .........

Beagle




msg:967205
 5:50 pm on Jan 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I thought this was about hobby sites. A hobby site, by definition, is one that's built because the "hobbyist" enjoys building it, right? What would be the point of hiring someone else to do it? Sure, my basement woodworking project may not look as good as something from Ethan Allen, but if I'm doing it because I enjoy it, and the seat doesn't collapse when someone sits on it, what does that matter?

ergophobe




msg:967206
 6:30 pm on Jan 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Beagle beat me to it. Why not hire a programmer for a hobby site?

* Because, it's not intended to make money and I don't want to invest the money. If it's raining and I have some time and my wife wants to do one of her hobbies, I work on my hobby site. I'm not locked into a set investment of time or money. It's a *hobby* Of course, being a programmer, I also don't build static pages ever, but that's just my choice.

* I bet j_h_maccann has had a lot of fun both learning about website development. My wife took up knitting last month. For the cost of yarn and needles, she could have gone out and bought much more professional-looking hats and dishcloths, but what's the point of that? She already had enough hats. The pleasure was doing something creative, not having a finished product.

Why do it at all?

* I enjoy sharing the info and my pay is when I get a "Thanks" email or, on special occasions, when someone gives me a good review on a blog.

* It's less hassle and stress than a business/for-profit site. If someone says "it doesn't work in Opera 7.2" I can solve that by saying "Well, I guess you have to download Firefox." If someone says, "Your server's down" I can say "I don't have time to check it this month, but I'll get to it when I can." You're thinking "Those aren't very professional answers!" Exactly. Now you're getting it! In fact, I would argue that it's less stress and hassle than hiring someone, but that's because I already know enough to put a site on the web I guess.

Building a couple of hobby sites recently has been this sort of whack on the head thing where I thought "Oh right, that's why this used to be fun."

kevinpate




msg:967207
 7:11 pm on Jan 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

> pay is when I get a "Thanks" email or,
> ... someone gives me a good review ...

I can relate. Both sites I build and maintain are non-monitized labor of love projects. The places where I voluntarily edit, some nfp, some not, are sites where I became involved to aid others with similar interests to mine.

It's always enjoyable to find a 'thanks' email and it's even enjoyable to find a "were you aware of X?" email. It doesn't matter to me whether x is newer or more detailed information on a topic or even the pointing out of some silly goof my tired eyes have overlooked. Each email means someone noticed the site and thought enough to write. And while all such notes are nice, I will concede it's an especially kicker day when the inbox contains a note of high praise.

europeforvisitors




msg:967208
 9:05 pm on Jan 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

I thought this was about hobby sites. A hobby site, by definition, is one that's built because the "hobbyist" enjoys building it, right? What would be the point of hiring someone else to do it?

Right, or worrying about automated online backup or any number of the other points that were raised in the initial post.

A hobby site requires as much time, effort, and technical whizbangery as the owner wants to put into it. No more, no less.

RailMan




msg:967209
 3:57 pm on Jan 4, 2006 (gmt 0)

when is a hobby not a hobby?
when it takes up every spare minute for months on end ....

what part(s) of the task are the hobby? just writing the content? participating in the subject being written about? learning web development? everything?

it takes a vast amount of time to achieve some things - personally i can think much better ways to spend that much spare time .........

Beagle




msg:967210
 1:25 am on Jan 5, 2006 (gmt 0)

What someone considers to be a hobby would depend on the individual. My hobby site is about a subject I enjoy being involved in and enjoy writing about for a group of people who enjoy reading about it, and I keep everything else simple. When I have more time to spend on it, I spend more time on it. When I don't, I can say, "Sorry, I wanted to have that new page up by the end of the month but didn't quite make it." Everyone says, "Hey, no prob," and I get back to it when I have time. It costs about $4/month for hosting and as much time as I want to put into it. That's a hobby. If I felt obliged to spend every waking moment at it, or get into serious web development (which I don't enjoy nearly as much as creating the content) it would be something else.

For someone who has fun exploring the technical side of website development, they might even enjoy setting up automated database backup - seems strange to me, but everybody's different.

I'm sure that for a lot of professional web developers, a "hobby website" would be an oxymoron, which is completely understandable. Mine is an opportunity for me to publish what I enjoy, without having to worry about a professional appearance (I can even make mistakes), or keyword density, or the opinion of someone who's paying me. It probably also makes a difference that the subject of the hobby isn't a common one, so the only way to gather an appreciable number of people interested in it is on the web. If I were interested in something that just needed a local place to gather, the website very likely wouldn't exist.

jretzer




msg:967211
 5:08 am on Jan 5, 2006 (gmt 0)

I have several hobby websites -- they both are hobbies in that I do them for fun, and they also are ABOUT hobbies.

In all cases, I decided to use blogging software -- of which there are several free scipts out there. With a "blog", you can get a good looking site, stop worrying about design and coding, and just write about what you love. I actually took the date tags off of one, so that the articles just pile up on top of each other. If I choose not to post for a while, then it doesn't look like the "blog" is neglected.

In some sense, they aren't blogs, but just sites that I can update easily.

microcars




msg:967212
 4:16 pm on Jan 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

when is a hobby not a hobby?
when it takes up every spare minute for months on end ....

oddly enough I know people who are that obsessed with their hobby.

I don't remember where I heard this, but:
"A Hobby is something you think about when you should be Working"

Beagle




msg:967213
 5:38 pm on Jan 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

microcars - LOL - great statement! The group I build my 'hobby' site for has pretty much switched terminology from 'hobby' to 'obsession.'

The site proclaims that it's for [site topic] geeks, giving my own definition that geeks are "people who are passionately interested in something that 'normal' people pay little or no attention to." That's followed by the quote "Geeks are generally the most interesting people." If you know where that quote is from, you can probably guess what the website's about. If you don't, that's okay - it's a [site topic] geek thing. ;-)

We've decided that if we don't spend more time on our 'hobby' than some people spend watching sports on TV, we're still basically sane.

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