| 9:34 pm on Sep 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Depends on the age of the student, but not very much. Content is relatively free (depending on the market of course), especially considering that there are so many people who just want to see their work published - whether online or off.
If you're dead set on paying the kid, though, I would:
1. decide on an hourly rate (e.g., $15)
2. get an estimate of the # of hours it would take from the kid to do it
3. make an offer of the hourly rate * # of hours
Straightforward and completely fair. If you have a maximum amount you want to spend in mind, just figure that into the formula. If the total amount is greater than your maximum, set the price to your maximum.
| 9:55 pm on Sep 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
She is not just a kid. She is an university student for english major. :) Does that make a difference anyways?
| 10:57 pm on Sep 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
You might want to put on your hard hat. As a professional writer, youíve touched a bit of a nerve with me. Iím grumpy with a bad head cold, and Iím going to blast away. :)
As web designers, you probably donít expect to work for free for others; please show the same respect to those who will help you grow your business. You donít expect babysitters to watch your kids for free just because they ďlike kids.Ē You donít expect doctors to work for free just because they ďlike making sick people better.Ē
Fact: there is a ton of bad writing on the web, truly bad writing that stinks worse than rotting fish and does not reflect the actual, high value in products, services, and companies, because the words were so poorly written. You may have the greatest product or service in the world, but if the words on your web page are mediocre, you are going to lose customers with a click of the mouse. If you really believe in your web site business, you should be willing to put your money where your mouth is, and invest in it.
If your bottom line is riding on the content you put on your site, especially if itís going to be read by people and not SEO spiders, then you must understand the risks you run if the writing is poor. Good quality content may be relatively free in some special circumstances, but most of the time good web content or web copy that grows your business, that help makes you a profit, is not free, nor is it cheap.
If you are only willing to pay bottom dollar for writing, you might get lucky, but itís more likely you will get one of the following:
1. an offshore, non-native English speaker who will handle the language awkwardly
2. an unscrupulous ďwriterĒ who will mostly copy and paste from other web sources, and who just might be savvy enough to change a word or two so it doesnít look like blatant stealing
3. a young student writer who may have made Aís in high school or college English class, but has no experience in actual information content writing or sales copy
If you are willing to pay for professional services, you are far more likely to get a writer who:
1. understands all the nuances of web content versus web copy, and which is more appropriate when
2. has experience writing on a broad variety of topics and in a wide variety of styles
3. takes the time to do research using credible sources, not just looking at two or three other web sites on the subject
4. knows how to identify experts and obtain interviews to get you current, expert information
5. can document her sources
6. can write in a manner that will engage the reader at whatever level you require, to pull the reader in, keep the reader reading, and keep the reader on your site.
7. can ultimately help your business to grow
Hereís a reality check for you: the writers that are willing to give it away for free or for pennies are writers who cannot write well enough to get a good price for their services. But everyone has to start somewhere, even amateur writers. Itís not a bad thing to give a newbie a break. But please remember that he or she is also providing you with something you need. If you want to use a student writer, please do not expect him or her to write for free or for sub-minimum wage.
| 11:13 pm on Sep 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
EileenC, you got very good points. I was thinking about all of them, actually.
Anyways, you didn't specify a price that would be appropriate.
| 2:41 pm on Sep 23, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Moltar, I don't know how complex the topic is that you are having the student write about. But let's assume it takes 1 to 2 hours of basic research time, and 4 hours of writing time for 750 words. If you pay your writer $8 an hour, and it takes him or her 6 hours, you're at $48, which I think is quite fair. I don't know if your writer can work that quickly, though. An experienced writer would charge you many times that amount.
| 3:01 pm on Sep 23, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Am I glad artists get paid more than writers ..those rates stink ..even for beginners..!
| 3:41 pm on Sep 23, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Unless it's a highly technical subject (in which case, an English lit major probably wouldn't be your best choice), between 2.5 and 5 cents a word is probably about industry standard for Web publishing. Actually, that's pretty generous. A lot of print magazines don't pay much more than that. You don't become a freelance writer for the money; you do it because you want to work from home;)
| 5:25 pm on Sep 23, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Teshka, I totally disagree. I write web copy and web content all the time, and I earn waaaaay more than those rates. My prices for web content (articles) start, at a bare minimum, of about 33 cents a word. Web copy (sales oriented) starts at about $1 a word and goes up from there. (Mods, if I'm being too specific here, please snip away.) I don't turn on my computer for anything less than $200, and even that's pretty low. I am a freelance writer, working from home, making an outstandingly good living at it. In about three more years, I expect to crack six figures without putting in a 40 hour week. I don't lack for customers. But I don't write for magazines, because the money isn't there. I write for businesses, primarily B2B marcomm, because that's where the bucks are. For a commercial website, owned by a business that expects to make money, there's no reason a writer should be compensated at only 5 cents a word.
Leosghost, Moltar asked what to pay a student, and I suggested a price. (Whether or not he can find anyone to accept that price is another story.) If it's an 18-year old student who would otherwise be flipping hamburgers for $7 an hour, and it's a chance for that student to get some writing experience, I think it's an okay rate.
| 7:27 pm on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Congrats on your success. You've obviously turned it into a business which, in my book, makes you an entreprenuer by profession rather than a writer. ;)
As long as the website owner is the one setting the prices, a writer won't make much for their work. Which is why I chose to write content for my own websites instead of working for others. But I seem to have drifted off topic. Ta ta.
| 7:38 pm on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)|
just changing tack from costing slightly, does anyone know anywhere to find content writers?
| 8:20 pm on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|As long as the website owner is the one setting the prices, a writer won't make much for their work. Which is why I chose to write content for my own websites instead of working for others. But I seem to have drifted off topic. |
Don't sell yourself short! There are plenty of businesses out there desperate for decent writers, who understand the value of good writing, and who have the budgets to pay you. You just have to find them. I never realized how much it was possible to make as a writer until I read Peter Bowerman's book, "The Well-Fed Writer." He just released a sequel, "Back for Seconds." Both books include profiles of writers who are making big bucks at this working on their own terms.
| 6:41 pm on Oct 12, 2004 (gmt 0)|
You dont need massive articles just short sweet ones like 200 - 250 words.
Thats takes about 5-9 mins to do. I have done it for reviews on cell products.
I would pay a set amount for each article not per word. I think $3 per article is fair.. I certainly am not going to pay someone $48 for one article.. lol give me a break i fi have to kick out 100 articles each optmized for one keyword per article each article had beetter be about $2 a piece.
Time to look in india i think for copyrighters dont go with usa too may people overcharging rediculous amounts of money. Why have all the big companies gone to india for support.. CHEAP BABY!
| 6:34 pm on Oct 21, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Honestly - it depends on the quality and subject of
The writers here are not going to like this, but you
can get rates as low as $4 per 600 word article on
Yes - the work is often done outside of North America,
and they require some editing, but overall the content
is not bad - especially if you are mainly looking for
SE optimized rather than deeply detailed content.
Rates of $10-$15 will get you a fairly good writer
on elance - and there are so many that you can often
get one experienced with your subject, unless it is
something quite obscure.
That should give you an idea of what the going rate is,
I hire out content development quite often now.
| 12:08 am on Oct 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Yup, we writers know that. The same is true for all the categories on those bid-for-jobs sites. Web designers, programmers, graphic designers, you name it ... the going rates for all of them are rock bottom. That's why if you are looking for the best quality, you won't find it on those types of sites. Smart service providers don't compete on price, they compete on quality. I get far higher rates than I'd ever get on a bid-for-job site, because my customers know they can count on me for the highest quality work, not to mention work that's not stolen from somewhere else. Intellectual property theft is a continuing problem on bid-for-jobs sites.
| 12:31 am on Oct 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
>>>I would pay a set amount for each article not per word. I think $3 per article is fair.. I certainly am not going to pay someone $48 for one article.. lol give me a break i fi have to kick out 100 articles each optmized for one keyword per article each article had beetter be about $2 a piece.
ha! what you want is a software writer to write you a programme to autogenerate a bunch of text optimised for a given keyword, just set the criteria, feed it a dictionary and you'll get what you want, and for much less than $2 a piece.
for the record if people are wanting to know specifics, i'm in england and had a project which required a series of 150-200 word articles, i paid her 15 ukpounds (approx 25 us$) a piece, for 10 at a time ... i got some nice articles for the money and don't care if she did each batch in an afternoon.
i think it depends what you want, if you want a sticky site with quality content then you have to pay, if you want search engine fodder then thats a different matter, for me i've found that i earn more from 'quality' - but many others here report the opposite, so i guess it all depends on your business model.
[edited by: topr8 at 12:38 am (utc) on Oct. 22, 2004]
| 12:36 am on Oct 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
>>not to mention work that's not stolen from somewhere else
good point, an associate of mine is a print publisher, who had to settle out of court for publishing an article that was actually written by someone else, the guy he paid just ripped it off from somewhere else and took the money for doing nothing.
| 11:45 am on Oct 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
For crimson black and jbsmith ..eventually "outsourcing" to 3rd world countries will "happen" to "your jobs" too ...I wonder will you think it so "clever" when the only thing which does happen in the western hemisphere is the consumation of goods and services produced in the eastern hemisphere...It's not the quality which is at issue ...there are many good witers and coders working in the east ....But if you follow your "logic?" there'll be no one left in the western hemisphere with enough money to buy what's produced in the eastern one ...
thats not politics thats logic ..
I'm personally fortunate enough that what my main work is can never be done " outsourced" ....by someone else ....
I suspect if you are running an average B2B or B2P website or in any kind of IT work what you do can be done in India etc within 5 years max ..all you are doing is helping the snowball gain speed ..;)
| 1:16 pm on Oct 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Leosghost, I understand your argument on outsourcing.
However, the world is a big place, the fact is that
these 3rd world countries are progressing at a much
faster rate than North American or Western European
countries. We can't ignore that fact.
Second, my point was that cookie-cutter type work - like
developing a large number of 300-600 word general
articles around a specified keyword is not the type
of work "writers" are typically looking for. So,
for these projects, I usually go lower on the bid
However, I have also paid very high amounts to have
websites developed, professional articles written,
Aren't the type of jobs we want to keep the higher
value, higher quality and less duplicatable - oh and
by the way - higher paying - jobs here.
Another point - the 50 articles I had written for this
particular niche website created profit out of which I
payed professional content developers, so it all depends
on how you look at it.
| 4:30 am on Oct 27, 2004 (gmt 0)|
eventually "outsourcing" to 3rd world countries will "happen" to "your jobs" too ...I wonder will you think it so "clever" when the only thing which does happen in the western hemisphere is the consumation of goods and services produced in the eastern hemisphere...It's not the quality which is at issue ...there are many good witers and coders working in the east ....But if you follow your "logic?" there'll be no one left in the western hemisphere with enough money to buy what's produced in the eastern one ...
thats not politics thats logic ..
Isn't this argument a bit old? It's been used for a long time regarding industries, countries and even continents facing changing markets, labour supply, resources and technology. It's mostly based on fear of competition, and having to up the ante. It seldom results in the terrible disaster proclaimed by those that don't want to find new ways to compete.
Value for money will always rise to the top. Quality will always be in demand, as will low price. There is a market and supply for both, but especially for a balance of the two.
The US was built on free-market principals, why run away and seek protection from them now? Have they failed?
| 5:43 am on Oct 27, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I use elance - excellent choice of online copywriters and I often find one with direct experience of the subject matter. Use the ones with a long solid work history. You get to see a portfolio and their feedback rating etc. before you commit.
|just changing tack from costing slightly, does anyone know anywhere to find content writers? |
| 6:07 am on Oct 27, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Use Rentacoder or elance you can find people who will do 250 word articles with headline for $2 an article.. and i mean they are quality articles!..
I dont pay more than $2... most i would pay is $3.. i dont look at it or present it that way to them though..
I tell them I can do 4 articles an hour. over 5hrs thats 20 articles..
I consider it like PEACEWORK.. that faster you write the more money in essence you make..
and no i dont just get people in india to do it.. i actually have people in canda, usa and philipians do the work.. and they get it back in 7 days.. 50 articles..
I had one lady say.. I will do it for you for $16 an article I nearly laughed in her face! lol.. said no thanks politely..
had another person say yes i will do 50 article for you i need 1 month and half .. Im like. dude I can get 20 articles done in 5 hrs... what the heck do you need 1 month and a half are you surfing porn in between every paragraph you write lOl... give mea break!
| 10:14 am on Oct 27, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Hell I could write 5-6 250 word 'articles' per hour.. what crap would you like me to churn out?
Or better, keep a database of ripped-off material and copy-and-paste - do your website a world of good with SEs
| 11:28 am on Oct 27, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Are people actually meant to read those articles? I can't imagine how bad the quality must be if they are churned out at that rate. Geez, I think I better go educate the masses. I often get $1 a word, sometimes more. Why work for $8 an hour when you can work for $75 and up? At those rates, they're better off flipping burgers somewhere. At least they'd get a free meal now and then into the bargain.
| 12:21 pm on Oct 27, 2004 (gmt 0)|
When it comes to sales letters, you always hire a solid writer, however, for content, and building out a site, sometimes you just need the research time and putting the pages together. I was wondering for a low-cost solution if anyone out there had any success with "curry flavored" content? ;-)
| 12:40 pm on Oct 27, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I have had good luck posting ads on the local college's bulletin board in the English department. Of course I am looking for original well research articles. To me $500 for a 1000 word top-notch article that is actually informative, on topic, and not plagiarized is well worth it to me.
I always slip in the importance of original content and that I will report plagiarism to their English department. Then I do searches on very specific phrases in the articles. So far, no dupe content found.
| 2:46 pm on Oct 27, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Um...all of the work that has been produced is completely unique... compared to half the crap on the net.. this is good quality interesting articles.. yuo underestimate what people can produce.. your eyes are too much on the money... some people just like to write. anyway you keep pay $1 a word LOL...
| 4:58 am on Oct 28, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|Are people actually meant to read those articles? I can't imagine how bad the quality must be if they are churned out at that rate. |
Umm... I was being a bit sarcastic...
|I have had good luck posting ads on the local college's bulletin board in the English department. Of course I am looking for original well research articles. To me $500 for a 1000 word top-notch article that is actually informative, on topic, and not plagiarized is well worth it to me. |
$0.50/word for a college student seems a bit over the top? Research and English lit is great, but at that price surely you need some depth of experience and marketing knowledge to show in the work? Maybe you accidentaly added a 0?
|Um...all of the work that has been produced is completely unique... compared to half the crap on the net.. this is good quality interesting articles.. |
Unless someone with an extremely wide knowledge-base is writing these things directly from his head (in which case he wouln't be writing at $2/article, there must be some research involved in producing original quality - even in such small articles. In this case its impossible to research and write 4/hour, or even close to it.
| 11:54 am on Oct 28, 2004 (gmt 0)|
crimsonblack ..Sorry ..But I have to say this..But judging from the quality of expression, grammar etc of your own posts ( and even noting that we dont normally comment on other members use of English lest it not be their first language? ) ..
How in the hell would "you" know a good quality article written in English ..even if it jumped up and bit you in the neck!
OLRedEye ..slightly better ( least you appear to be trying to be thinking )..but to answer your question as to the validity of "my old argument"..and not being at all political ..if you consider that outsourcing from the USA has contributed to anything other than higher profits in relation to the US economy ( which is NOT mine BTW ) ..then your grasp ( more accurately "lack thereof" ) of basic economics ..will only hasten the "outsourcing" of yourself ..but then already I don't expect "your economic model" to survive long enough for "us" to be having an extension of this conversation in another years time ...
Unless you are a spammer /scammer ..your website or business will only be.. as Brett says "sticky" enough to make any long term money ..if it's well designed and has quality ..
You both appear to be more interested in trying to "rip off" those who provide you with your material ( makes one wonder how your ethics are in relation to your "customers"? )...or maybe "you" would "work" for what you think is such "good" fair money as you offer?
It's rare that I get annoyed ( particularly to post this way and ..til now.. not here at WebmasterWorld )..but rank stupidity combined with arrogance and greed always were a "blue touch paper" of mine ...
| 12:00 pm on Oct 28, 2004 (gmt 0)|
well thats you opinion, and thats all it is..
| This 37 message thread spans 2 pages: 37 (  2 ) > > |