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Content, Writing and Copyright Forum

    
Oh joy--when can I start?
VegasRook




msg:923923
 7:35 pm on Mar 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

The number of ridiculous offers I receive in my in box never ceases to amaze me. Take a peak at what this genius is offering. I have removed the name to protect the guilty party. :D


Require writer for 250 word keyword specific website articles for my website located at [WHO CARES]. My budget is very low but can offer complete creative freedom and consistent work. I need 3-5 articles a week. Can pay $3.00 per article. Let me know if you are interested.

$3.00 per article, wow. Let me see. That comes out to just over 1 PENNY per word. Think I shall pass.

I just don't understand how someone with a brain even thinks this is correct. Let us assume the "writer" cranks out the 250 word article with a little research and no real revisions in one hour. That is $3 an HOUR! Working at McDonalds will pay at least $5+ an hour.

If your budget is low then buy one article and buy more when you have the money. Yes, at $3 an article, I can pay for consistent work too.

Well, thanks for the laugh.

 

EileenC




msg:923924
 8:15 pm on Mar 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

What continues to amaze me is how many writers consider this level of servitude ... er, pay ... acceptable. Oh, gee, we should be so pleased that the work will allow complete creative freedom (which requires more time) and consistent assignments (oh, gee, thanks ... so I can CONTINUE to work for slave wages?). Once you get a reputation for working cheap, it's pretty hard to reposition yourself.

Fortunately, there are enough clients out there who recognize true quality and have enough respect for someone's time and expertise that they're willing to pay reasonable rates. For web copy, I regularly get $2/word and up, and for content, at least thirty times what your would-be writing buyer is offering. I have to wonder, would he/she jump at the chance to earn the princely sum of $3/hour if it offered steady work and "creative freedom"?

Livenomadic




msg:923925
 2:23 am on Mar 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Lol Vegas! I almost spilt my tea laughing.

Luddite




msg:923926
 6:42 pm on Mar 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

quite funny. I sincerely hope he gets his three dollars worth ;-0

I know this is kind of like asking "how high is up?", but here goes: How much should quality content cost?

I.E. What would you pay/get paid for:

i. 15-20 definitions (short descriptive text <100 words each) vs. a single 1500-2000 word article?
ii. technical/specialized content vs. general?
iii. SEO copy vs. non-optimized?

I'm hoping for answers both from content writers and folks that hire them. What price ranges do you feel are reasonable?

Any responses appreciated

moto




msg:923927
 7:09 pm on Mar 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm glad you opened this topic, Vegas. I've found this sort of thinking too often with people who want to hire writers (or other skilled providers) for little or nothing.

It's good for those of us who provide content to know what the going rates are as far as pricing for our services, and to be able to stick to a standard. Hard to do at times, but it's the best way, in the long run.

dvduval




msg:923928
 7:15 pm on Mar 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

A sad truth is there are billions of people in this World who make less than $3 per hour. Working a 40 hour week, that's $6240 per year...that's incredible money for some.

EileenC




msg:923929
 8:35 pm on Mar 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

A sad truth is there are billions of people in this World who make less than $3 per hour. Working a 40 hour week, that's $6240 per year...that's incredible money for some.

I agree. But it's not incredible money to a US citizen whose writing helps other US businesses make sales and pull in profits. As with any business exchange, it's all about the value that's brought to the equation. You can find plenty of non-English speaking writers to churn out substandard copy to pad the content on a website. But if that copy has to move people towards a buying decision, or if it must enhance the credibility of the business proposition, a business owner would be foolish not to pay for the quality that will bring in the profits.

Tapolyai




msg:923930
 8:49 pm on Mar 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Let me echo Luddite's request. I just posted a request on the "Commercial Exchange" sub (it's on hold as usual). I knew of course it was not $3/article, but what would be a reasonable price?

For a reference, how long does it take to write an article, of say approx 500 word one?

What is a reasonable one page length article on the net? At what length it is just a blurb, and at what length it is just way to long?

LOVE to hear your responses. I do have to come up with a realistic budget... ;)

Yes, there are unfortunate people out there, but most people can make something out of their lives, no matter where they live. Let's not get too depressed about the people who make $2/day, because a gallon of milk cost them $0.01...

EileenC




msg:923931
 9:13 pm on Mar 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'll take the easy question first.
What is a reasonable one page length article on the net?

300-1000 words, depending on the type of site and subject matter, probably towards the shorter end of the range.

At what length it is just a blurb,

Less than 300 words, maybe? :)

and at what length it is just way to long?

When you begin losing the reader. That's going to depend on the audience. If the article is written to high-level, PhD-educated executives and the subject is complex, for instance, it will be long. Regardless of the length, it should be broken up with subheadings into digestible chunks of info. Subheads should be meaningful and not overly clever, written for skimmers as well as readers.

For a reference, how long does it take to write an article, of say approx 500 word one?

Again, it depends on subject matter. If I know a subject well and have to do little to no research, you're talking at least 90 minutes for a good quality article. If it's written just for search engines and not human eyes, or is one of thousands needed to pad a site with content, sheer economics dictate that the site owner could not afford my regular rates. That's why I very seldom take on jobs of this type.

Freedom




msg:923932
 9:31 pm on Mar 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

A sad truth is there are billions of people in this World who make less than $3 per hour. Working a 40 hour week, that's $6240 per year...that's incredible money for some.

Amen to that. I know two young females writing 250 word articles for $4 each and they are very happy to have the work. They live outside the USA and do a better job then most Americans could. I should know because I was a newspaper reporter in the US for 5 years.

When I read the arrogant reactions to $3/blurbs above, I am not surprised at all by the high number of jobs moving overseas every year.

Go ahead and laugh at that low pay. There are lots of people willing to take those jobs. And don't come back here crying when no one will hire you because you are too high priced with an overvalued sense of entitlement.

Most American content writers for the web aren't that good anyway. They think they are, but they're not.

VegasRook




msg:923933
 4:39 am on Mar 11, 2005 (gmt 0)


For a reference, how long does it take to write an article, of say approx 500 word one?

It really depends. As was pointed out, how well you know the information can determine the time. If you are a one man or woman show, the piece can take some time because you must be the writer and the editor. It is possible to spend hours on a 500 word piece.

If you were say a newspaper reporter, the piece might not take long at all because the editor does all the real work. Basically, the reporter presents a crude work and the editor works his or her magic to mold it into a masterpiece. The better the editor, the better the piece ends up. Even the best journalists on the planet have top notch editors.

Pricing really depends on a number of factors. I personally don't care for people who charge top dollar--unless they are well worth it. You need to charge enough to live on though. An American can not live on $3 per article because of our economy.

Tapolyai




msg:923934
 4:41 pm on Mar 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

<grumble>I hate subjective decisions...</grumble>

Ok. so to be a reasonable article, within a requested topic, I can expect to pay $500 to $1,500 in the average range? So $750 per article is a good "starting" point?

Would an experienced content writer be open to creative compensation? i.e. trade for services, or shared profits off of adjacent advertisements?

Freedom




msg:923935
 6:07 pm on Mar 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

If you were say a newspaper reporter, the piece might not take long at all because the editor does all the real work. Basically, the reporter presents a crude work and the editor works his or her magic to mold it into a masterpiece.

No disrespect but that is truly ignorant. Especially, "...the editor does all the real work."

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Spoken by someone that never worked in a newspaper office.

dauction




msg:923936
 6:19 pm on Mar 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

.20-.30 cents a word TOPS .. Unless you are a fortune 500 Company dont bother paying $3 a word for the same quality you can get for .20-.30 range.

500 words x .30 = $150 ; any good writer could do 3-4 of these a day $450-$600 a day.

If all they do is 1 a day 54K a year . That's a pretty fair living; even in the US that places you in the middle class.

Etienne




msg:923937
 7:12 pm on Mar 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

In Montreal (Canada) we pay from 16 to 23 cents per word for... translation. Writing the original copy takes a lot more time and should be paid a lot more.

EileenC




msg:923938
 8:33 pm on Mar 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

500 words x .30 = $150 ; any good writer could do 3-4 of these a day $450-$600 a day.

If all they do is 1 a day 54K a year . That's a pretty fair living; even in the US that places you in the middle class.

Check your math. :) One $150 article per day, five days a week, is $39,000, not $54,000.

Doing 3 or 4 of these a day would be a stretch for most writers, including myself, who has been writing for a long long time. I could do it if I knew the subject matter very well, minimal research were involved, and no interviews were involved. But throw any of those factors into it, and you've easily doubled the time it takes.

rfontaine




msg:923939
 8:53 pm on Mar 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

$3 goes a long way in some parts of the world.

The sad fact is, American workers are going to get the shaft more and more. For example, in the Philippines $500 a month is an excellent wage, what Engineers get. Try living on that in the USA!

Fact is, in a world economy work that can easily be done elsewhere, like writting or programming, is going to be snapped up by people in countries that can make a living at pay rates you could only live under a bridge with in the United States. Of course, certain US businesses do well from this, they don't have to pay benefits and get work done at what would be slave wages in the US.

Thank you George Bush for selling Americans down the river!

bruhaha




msg:923940
 9:21 pm on Mar 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thank you George Bush for selling Americans down the river!

Please drop the political shots. The fact is this globalization, outsourcing, etc., has been building for some time. Bush didn't cause it, and there's not much he could do to stop it, assuming (wrongly, I believe) that he should try.

Throwing up barriers to prevent the change might avoid some of the current dislocations, but would likely cause more and deeper problems. Compare how we tried to "solve" our economic woes circa 1930 by creating trade barriers [Smoot-Hawley Act], etc. Result? The Great Depression!

You are making a whole host of assumptions about how economies work, including that job creation and wealth creation are zero-sum games.

Several times in history folks have made arguments against these sorts of changes-- people far less propserous than we are today. Fortunately, they ultimately lost!

Freedom




msg:923941
 11:23 pm on Mar 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

The fact is this globalization, outsourcing, etc., has been building for some time. Bush didn't cause it, and there's not much he could do to stop it,

That's for sure. Globalization and outsourcing is one of the few things that can't be blamed on GWB.

A book I recommend reading on the subject of Globalization and the Global Economy is:

"The Lexus and The Olive Tree"

This book will really open your eyes to understanding the big picture of global economics and the future.

Tapolyai




msg:923942
 11:23 pm on Mar 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think some of you might have misunderstood what I am looking for.

I am not interested in writing. I am interested in hiring. I just think I should pay a fair price for a fair job.

If one of you tell me that I can get a good article for $3, why would I want to pay $750?

As an ex-boss said, just before he laid me off - I care, I really do - just not that much...

As for globalization... Remember when you could hire a programmer for $0.10/hour? I do. That is no longer the case at the same location. So, in a truly globalized scenario the price of any service or product will find the proper equilibrium and price.

Computer programmers' hourly rate here in the US are droping, but the rates overseas are rising. Could it be because we are overpaid in most instances here?

But I digress...

shigamoto




msg:923943
 11:28 pm on Mar 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Oh great they offer consistent work, I mean who wouldn't want that? :P

What the heck is meant by consistent work? Is it the same as work your butt of 24/7?

VegasRook




msg:923944
 2:39 am on Mar 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Bottom line: If you want to pay $3, offer $3.

For web content, 10 cents per word or greater will draw many good writers. Ghostwritten work can be substantially higher.

Who knows, you might offer $3 an article and get a piece you like. It may not be great writing but if you think so, that is what matters.

If you are going to offer low pay, try to offer compensation. For example, $x an article plus links to their website. Business is all about leveraging. If you had a website with high traffic or a high PR, you should be able to get a good writer to write you an article now and then for a nice link--think in terms of the complete package.

Good Luck!

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