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Linux, Unix, and *nix like Operating Systems Forum

Non-Windows Platform
Gimme gimme
brotherhood of LAN

 8:57 pm on Aug 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'm going to buy an old tin box of a computer to play around with the world of unix, linux, or whatever it is specifically called- non-windows works for me.

I would be installing Apache to play around with making websites under such an environment. The main reason being is that I'm trying to learn the various codes used on the web - like PHP, which seems to be more suited the the Unix environment.

'scuse me if I get my Unix's and Linux's mixed up :) I have a very rough idea.

Anyway, a 600Mhz computer with comparable hardware. Since I know I'll be installing Apache.....

How should I go about this?? Its a vague question I'm asking....all I know is that I want to play with some variables and different setups that are involved with Linux - and just basically find out more about it all.

So if you were to install Apache on a Unix system...how would you go about it. What should I be knowing being a sheep brought up in a windows world! I'm sure you get the picture - SOS ;)



 9:13 pm on Aug 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Once you get the past the intimidating "linux speak", things like "distro,rpm,X windows manager,tarball, compile the binaries" just go buy the red hat boxed cds and install it on your machine, it's real easy.

Once the OS is installed, you will be presented with a nice set of desktop icons that let you click on folders and menus just like windoze. From there you can start digging around and get as geeky as you choose (or as time allows).

If you want to check out apache and all the other goodies on windoze, just go here and download the installer, it gives you apache,mysql,perl and php in one package ready to go.


BTW...I found that the linux members here are absolutely terrific when it comes to linux help.


 11:01 pm on Aug 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Go for it B-O-L

You sound like you are going down the same path I did a few months ago.

Coming in as a complete newbie to linux, (as I was), I'd go for Mandrake 8.2 - apache can be installed as part of the main installation.

I installed it without any problems, it found all my hardware OK and is running sweet as a nut now.

Buy the disks on-line if you can't be bothered to download - I've seen prices as low as 15.00.

Be prepared to get frustrated at the hassle of installing software (compared to Windows).

Also be prepared to become addicted and move over completely to Linux. It took me only 2 days to realise I was 'never going back'.

I believe Frontpage can be made to run on Linux using the Wine emulator - so you'll feel at home:)

brotherhood of LAN

 11:08 pm on Aug 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Good to hear 4eyes,

I'm all up for the hassle of whatever-it-throws. I just want to get closer to the workings of a computer so I can learn top-down as well as bottom-up if you know what I mean.

Seems learning the likes of Perl,Python,whatever is more suited to a Unix-type environment. Seems that way anyway.

Just trying to grab a bit of the 'web culture' and see why everyone says "use linux!"

I have DW4, Fireworks and Flash on my comp just now - as long as *something* works on it I'm not bothered :) Also might be able to get that Vim that Nick_W holds high and see what it's made of ! ;)


 11:19 pm on Aug 21, 2002 (gmt 0)


There are a lot of gaps in the Linux web design software - no WYSIWYG stuff, which was a bit of a 'blocker' for me when I first started off.

Consequently, I am still running Windows for some stuff, but on top of Linux (using Win4Lin). Both operating systems can see each other files, and I am able to cut and paste between windows and linux application.

When windows crashes, I can now reboot it in 5 seconds:) (although it does run a little slower - nothing I can't live with)

I am still using Dreamweaver, ULead, Adobe,et al - I just have Windows in prison and under control now:)


 11:49 pm on Aug 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Go for RedHat or SuSe Bro.

I was using Mandrake 8.0, it was OK, but the change to 8.1 was a disaster. I mean it upgraded but 8.1 was junk.

Ah, and don't forget to start networking at boot time, even if you don't connect to other machines. It tricked me for a couple of days.


 2:29 am on Aug 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

Funny, I had a very good experience with Mandrake 8.1. I installed it on 5 computers and didn't have any problems. Maybe it was that you did an "upgrade" instead of a clean install.

Be prepared to get frustrated at the hassle of installing software (compared to Windows).

Honestly, that is why I think I am never going back to the RPM based distros. Debian is outstanding for updates and installing new programs. It is very simple and easy, actually much easier than windows.

Yet I don't recommend it for someone just starting out, it is a bit of a challenge to install and get configured. I sort of see Mandrake and Debian as opposites, Mandrake is very easy to install, but a pain to upgrade and Debian a dream to update/upgrade, but a challenge to install.

Has anyone tried Libranet?

It is a commercial distro based on Debian. It is suppose to be very easy to install and have very nice GUI admin tools.


 3:00 am on Aug 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

I would also recommend Mandrake for starting, I use it. There is also a good Mandrake user forum/advice site that has helped my education in things linux.


 4:58 am on Aug 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

I started with Redhat gave Mandrake a short try. Mandrake is a clean install (The most Windows like) but I just didn't feel like I had the same control as with Redhat. I would vote for Redhat 7.3. 7.2 is lacking most of the latest stuff.


I have read alittle about Debian and you sure sing its praise. It sounds like they use a older kernel to insure stability. Do you know if you can build and run the most current patched kernel with-out breaking the packaging system.

If its not rpm based does it download and compile the source for upgrades and installs ?


 10:19 am on Aug 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

One thing about Debian is that it has a very tested base, which means it is dated by the time it reaches "stable". Great stuff if you have a server or you are a programmer who needs proven stable environment. But, you could really be as bleeding edge as you want to be.

I have been using "unstable", for months now without any pain. I am also using some unofficial, (read unevaluated) packages like KDE 3.0.2, but they are working well. I don't go through dependency hell when ever I want to upgrade, I just ask for what I want and it goes in nice and easy.

They still use 2.2 kernel as the standard in woody. I did the woody floppy install and then swapped out the old kernel for the kernel-image-2.4.19-686 using apt-get, the Debian package manager and it went in completely smooth -- nothing broke. I also change the system from woody to sid early on so that I could keep getting the latest goodies as they come down the pipe.

Most Debian packages are recompiled just like rpms, it isn't like Gentoo or the BSD portage system. The apt-get system and the rpm system have a lot in common. but APT is a lot better at making sure dependencies are upgraded and stay current.

Debian keeps your system constantly current -- as oppose to dating and freezing dependencies. The main reason I see the commercial distros doing this is because it keeps people buying CDs.

Also, I have to say that Debian is very forgiving when it comes to people like me messing around with large packages, I have put on and taken off Gnome2 at least three times (imo gnome2 is not ready for prime time yet), and it has graciously accepted the pre-unstable packages and removed them without complaining.


 1:09 pm on Aug 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

I don't really like the dependency checks, I almost always run rpm with -f because I had my apps on 3 CDs and mounting/unmounting in a random order can give you a headache.

I use Slackware, it's nice - the packages are almost pure gzipped tarballs, but it's sometimes annoying looking for a package dependency.

I would really like to check a Debian, but I just don't have the time to reinstall (and space for backups).


 1:16 pm on Aug 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

I"m looking at buying the Apple XServe which is using FreeBSD as its core Kernel. I've heard great things about it, especially the Apple GUI for the Apache, and SysAdmin.

Has anyone had experience with the Apple Server and/or FreeBSD?

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