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Use overture and that is all you need for ATW and AV
If you're in the top 3 in Overture, you're in at ATW
fctoma




msg:221669
 4:42 pm on Jul 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

I don't see why everyone would worry about getting in ATW...if you're the top three in Overture, you are in the top three in ATW...period!

Sure, I am assuming all have fully optimized their site (link pop, meta info, good content...yadda yadda yadda)...this is standard and understood.

Am I wrong?

 

agerhart




msg:221670
 4:52 pm on Jul 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

Sure, but why pay for it?...if you are good at SEO, you can get in the top 3 for FREE.

You could use that same logic for MSN, AOL, Yahoo, etc., etc.

You can pay to be in the top, or you can learn more, wark hard, and get there for FREE.

fctoma




msg:221671
 6:11 pm on Jul 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the reply agerhart...BUT, been doing this for a while and am pretty much #1-5 for all our top KWs...in ALL the engines. No matter HOW GOOD YOU ARE, you cannot get in the top three results in AV, ATW, MSN, and others due to Overture PPC taking the top three no matter what (if those terms are bidded on). So, my question again...to anyone, why used Paid inlcusion for AV or ATW?

John_Creed




msg:221672
 11:00 am on Jul 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

Why care about ATW to begin with, it supplies almost no traffic. Once FAST decides to finally make a move than we can care about ATW.

I think the technology is great and it can definately compete with Google, but it needs users.

My sites generally do better on ATW than google, but not on all keywords. If your site is well optimized and doing well in Google, than generally you'll do very well in ATW as well. But the top 3 spots in ATW are no big deal and not worth actually paying for.(Correct me if i'm wrong)

fctoma




msg:221673
 1:41 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

I agree, ATW doesn't give us any thing compared, not even close, to what Google does. We've been really high in Google and ATW...I was just curious to what others are thinking. Thanks to all :)

Thanasus




msg:221674
 2:29 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

You could use that same logic for MSN, AOL, Yahoo, etc., etc.

I understand your logic but it doesn't hold up against MSN. Any competitive term has dozens of backfills from LS you have to wade through first. So if you are #1 at inktomi from good 'ol SEO, you are still on page #3

heini




msg:221675
 3:46 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hmm...not really sure what to say to this right now. ATW was Fast, got bought by OV, now is part of the new Yahoo websearch empire.

Perhaps we see the ATW index on Yahoo soon?

Fact is there are still a lot of contracts running, so that optimizing for ATW is for many Europeans definitely worthwile.
In the german market for example you can get ~10% out of it, which is not bad.
As always: remember, ATW is just the showcase - the portals using ATW bring the traffic.

You are of course free to pay per click for that traffic if you prefer to do so.

Rumbas




msg:221676
 5:02 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

>would worry about getting in ATW

Well heini summed it up nicely. Specially for Germany for example. There you achieve a fairly high percentage of your search engine traffic for free with the help of the FAST database. How would you like to get a 10 percent increase in traffic for free? ;)

>if you're the top three in Overture, you are in the top three in ATW...period

Lets not be so hasty here. In Denmark and other Euro countries we're seeing Espotting on ATW. Though that might not live for long with Yahoo buying Overture today [webmasterworld.com].

>Perhaps we see the ATW index on Yahoo soon?

Wouldn't that be nice? I would really really that scenario! See the above comments about ATW not bringing any traffic, so why bother? Give it another thought..

In fact I think an FAST/AV/Ink algo would be just what Yahoo needs to server a great search experience for their users. Combined with Overture amd they are sitting on a very competitive product that match Google.

I'm glad FAST always has been on my list of duties - might need to dig out some notes about AV as well :)

fctoma




msg:221677
 5:17 pm on Jul 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Nicely put Rumbas...this Yahoo deal is going to change a lot of future SEO/online marketing strategies for all I think...something we'll just have to wait for.

Long live the EVER changing SEO world :)

Good day from Idaho!

Frank

markd




msg:221678
 1:51 pm on Jul 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

The other point is my more savvy clients are recognising that PFP = highest bid, whereas non PFP may = more relevant pages.

This is particularly the case in more competitive keyphrases. If you want to just see 'the usual suspects' why even look on the web?

Sometimes the same companies are prominent in the printed directories, in the magazines etc. etc and are just covering the web as part of their overall, blanket promotional mix. It's the companies who may have a slightly different slant, proposition or product who score when they are high in the SERPS and targeting a searcher with some 'intent'.

PFP: highly useful as one of the tools, not the panacea.

subway




msg:221679
 9:33 am on Jul 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>> So, my question again...to anyone, why used Paid inclusion for AV or ATW?

I never paid for either - and rank #1 in ATW (really not bothered about altavista) for all major keywords, the problem is that it still generates absolutely 0 traffic.

a). No one directly uses ATW or even knows about it.
b). Even if their result show on other engines they're always buried under 25 sponsored listings and directory results.

So I agree, you may as well just bid to be at the top, unless it's not financially beneficial. That's the beauty of Google still.

I thought that ATW at one point could be a serious threat to Google, but not anymore.

SuzziJ




msg:221680
 10:40 am on Jul 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

Answer is pretty simply. Pay for inclusion to FAST, and get in Lycos, ATW, Excite etc. in a few days. Then as we know it refreshes your site every 48 hours, which to the avid SEO means that you can make constant changes, and just 48 hours later the changes will be picked up. This further means that whereas with Google it could take you months (as they only have major changes every so often) with FAST you get to see your new results in ATW, Lycos and more every 2 days. You can see where you are going wrong and improve etc. etc.

Answer to the other question about whether its better to just pay overture to be at the top, well yeah why not. Pay Overture, see if you get the clicks, if you do then begin to optimize for those phrases, pay FAST, Ink or AV and get your site refreshing every few days. Change your site and get listed under the 3 sponsored results and dont bother paying for clicks anymore. ta ta

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