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Deprecated - Altavista, Alltheweb.com Forum

    
Google's tantrum aids ATW
Could ATW catch Google off guard?
peewhy




msg:221155
 5:28 pm on Jun 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

I can't knock ATW, its new facilities are smart and useful. Since Google's tantrum - I've noticed much more activity from ATW.

I think Google could have a serious contender to the throne.

 

martinibuster




msg:221156
 6:09 pm on Jun 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

I've noticed much more activity from ATW.

Not here. That traffic is infinitesimal is not surprising, because ATW is a test site for Overture- Overture does not currently intend ATW for use as an internet destination for the general public.

Because it is a "test site" (Overture's own words), it is not a contender for anything.

a serious contender to the throne.

There are many contenders. I've got my eyes set for changes this year, and serious competition in 2005- from all sides.

Tantrum? Although some have experienced this, I have not. Not in my sector. Neither has the average user... Yet.

SlowMove




msg:221157
 6:24 pm on Jun 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

Because it is a "test site" (Overture's own words), it is not a contender for anything.

if it's a test site, what are overture's plans?

Brad




msg:221158
 7:07 pm on Jun 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>if it's a test site, what are overture's plans?

At this point we don't know and Overture is not saying (if they even know.)

Overture seems to be taking there time and let both AV and ATW continue crawling.

chiyo




msg:221159
 7:21 pm on Jun 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

pee wee..

1. Please inform us sbout this "google trantrum". When did it occur? What was it?

2. What extra activity have you noticed from ATW?

Im not aware of either. ATW, AV and MSN have all been delivering their normal percentage of hits, though only MSN is increasing slightly. Google has had serious contenders to the throne for several years and agree that ATW has useful features.

I need more detail or evidence from you before taking these subjective statements seriously.

martinibuster




msg:221160
 7:39 pm on Jun 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

tantrum: I take it to mean how some webmasters are moaning about their drop in serps...

What else is new?

heini




msg:221161
 8:12 pm on Jun 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

Martinibuster has it right. ATW has been a showcase and R & D sandbox for Fast and it will continue to be just that with the new owners.
whew - I could sing that line by now :)

BUT: OV has a team led by Gary Flake [webmasterworld.com] currently working on unifying the best features of the ATW and the AV technology. Flake is an expert at link analysis and web communities. This is going to be interesting.

I expect a brandnew first rate search engine to be the result, presented at Altavista, ATW, and several portals worldwide.
If and how this is going to be serious competition for Google depends on a lot of factors.
I suppose a main factor will be the revenue splits Google and OV are going to offer to their Portal partners.

Brad




msg:221162
 8:18 pm on Jun 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

I've been noticing a few more hits from ATW and Lycos across a couple sites, but I think it is more due to my improving my rankings than to more users. The increase in Lycos hits at the same time as the ATW hits would seem to bare this out.

peewhy




msg:221163
 8:22 pm on Jun 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

What are test sites for? to test! if the results are good - they hone and polish the platform - if the results are not good - the testers learn and re-test.

Because it is a test site, it doesn't make it a lesser site.

chiyo

>>>1. Please inform us sbout this "google trantrum". When did it occur? What was it?

Perhaps you should read more posts.:)

2. What extra activity have you noticed from ATW?

From what was a none entity - my logfiles now show a lot more activity - more people are using it.

>>> "need more detail or evidence from you before taking these subjective statements seriously."

... your choice!

RBuzz




msg:221164
 10:42 pm on Jun 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

==
BUT: OV has a team led by Gary Flake currently working on unifying the best features of the ATW and the AV technology. Flake is an expert at link analysis and web communities. This is going to be interesting.
==

AV's search powers + ATW's database size and enthusiasm = beyoooteeful search engine.

Here's hopin'.

RBuzz

chiyo




msg:221165
 3:50 am on Jun 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

peewee..

ive read a lot of posts. all ive seen is webmaster's tantrums while Google is changing their algos and ranking mechanisms.

Now ATW has had great results from where i stand for over a year. However there is little traffic from them over that time though it has been very very grapdually increasing over that time like AV and more so for MSN. Now as Fast as Heini has said, had not promoted their web search, that makes ATW look even better.

But hots for us have not increased since the "webmaster's tantrums". Heini's post is highly useful. It would be great to have another good search engine or two. And he sounds very positive. The key may be however whether overture turns into a search company, or whether they turn ATW and AV into ad delivery mechanisms for OV's existing role as an advertising company.

At the moment Google, (to me) still has a "search" brand and it means they can deliver ads on the side. I hope that is what happens to ATW/AV/OV, rather than ATW/AV being ad delivery mechanisms for an ad company delivering search on the side.

What is happening at OV is very exciting, and i watch in anticpation of what their strategy will be.

steveb




msg:221166
 4:14 am on Jun 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

Google hasn't had a tantrum, but anyone who denies it has had a data failure is simply being obtuse. The facts are right there in the backlinks. Their last two deepcrawls failed, and it was reflected in degraded serps. You read some amazing stuff on these forums. Try dropping a glass on the floor and call it "changing the algo".

But to the point of the thread, whether their is anything to exploit will be up to whether Google can right itself after this update or the next. As long as it makes such significant errors in crawling the web, an opportunity exists.

martinibuster




msg:221167
 7:42 am on Jun 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

The key may be however whether overture turns into a search company, or whether they turn ATW and AV into ad delivery mechanisms...

I had a chance to have a word with Gary Flake last month, and I asked him about that...

as he has repeated in interviews elsewhere, he told me that their investments in search are 5-10 year investments.

But every one knows that the search engines all have their hands on their holsters and soon it's going to be high noon at the OK Corral.

Gosh, I feel like Herb Caen with the three dot journalism that he invented...

peewhy




msg:221168
 9:12 am on Jun 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

Move away from who owns whom.

Move away from inside knowledge and politics.

Step into Joe Public's shoes.

You (joe public ) may yet not have heard of ATW, like a couple of years ago you had not heard of Google.

You find ATW, use it, like it ... cut away from Google and ATW grows in users.

Test site or not, if it proves successful, minds will change and tomorrows plans may be on the back boiler.

Google needs to work hard to win back loyalty - it has fouled twice.

My living depends on SEO and Google doesn't play the same part than it did earlier this year.

I think ATW will organically grow, ignore it at your peril, listen to inside mumbles - or look at your logfiles and compare them with six months ago.

I see results, I'm pleased with what ATW is delivering.

Just because I'm banging ATW's drum doesn't make me a fool.

tigger




msg:221169
 9:23 am on Jun 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

>You (joe public ) may yet not have heard of ATW

I've got a few good rankings on ATW and I'm lucky if I get a hit a day from them, they need to go long way before google starts to worry, I even get more traffic from Hotbot and thats saying something

peewhy




msg:221170
 4:56 pm on Jun 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

Tigger ... from small acorns grow..
I don't think Google is shaking in her boots but equally I think ATW is taking some once loyal users.

Do you know if your Hotbot hits are via Fast?

A lot of people are seeing results from ATW and I think it will grow.

RBuzz




msg:221171
 5:01 pm on Jun 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

IMHO one of the things ATW suffered from -- almost as much as Northern Light -- is a low profile. Now that they're part of Overture I suspect that won't be a problem much longer...

peewhy




msg:221172
 6:32 pm on Jun 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

They now need users, everything is there, it's good and it works.

I'm sure we'll here a lot more about ATW very soon.

...Google, fix yourself!

chiyo




msg:221173
 6:47 pm on Jun 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

peewhy, i think you do ATW a disservice by continually comparing it to Google. ATW has unique points, and at the moment appeals, I think, to a different, but not mutually exclusive demographic.

For example, to me i go to google a lot simply because of its the raw speed and simplicity rather than for the quality of its database (though im nt criticising Google there), but sometimes i go to ATW and after fiddling around a bit can sometimes get different and useful results. ATW lags behind in functionality on people wanting to do a simple fast search, which to me is very important.

I think ATW can stand on its own, more than a substutute for Google - maybe for the advanced searcher.

The tone of your postings here sound like an emotive crusade against something rather than an objective look at ATW. Its almost as if you are spinning ATW in curious attempt to get google to change.

peewhy




msg:221174
 7:00 pm on Jun 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

Good point! I think you are right, I am banging the drum too much for ATW, and as I said I don't think Google is shaking in her high heels.

Sour grapes?

I think ATW has some excellent qualities and yes, it can run alongside Google ... equally I think Google needs to take a long hard look at herself, these mood swings are not good:)

heini




msg:221175
 8:53 pm on Jun 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

The key is in the strategy. Why did Fast use ATW as showcase only, and why emphasizes OV the same angle?

Because they are targeting portals as customers. Fast has never failed to hint at what happened to Yahoo, when they partnered with Google. Yahoo had raised their own worst competition! And if it were not for the Overture partnership Yahoo very well might have gone bust by now!

In a landscape where Google in several countries worldwide not only owns websearch with 70+%, but also massively steals eyeballs from the portals, Google is a threat to many portals very existence.

That's where Overture is coming from. They have never gone in competition with their customers.

So Altavista is now new territory for OV. Altavista is a destination, thus competing with OV's partners.
Will they allow ATW to become a destination for the masses too?
Currently it doesn't look like that.

SlowMove




msg:221176
 10:14 pm on Jun 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

ATW may be a good engine, but what do you use more often for your own searches? I have to admit that I will use Google first and then use Y! or ATW. Even with all the confusion around Google recently, it still may be the best.

peewhy




msg:221177
 5:14 am on Jun 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

I haven't sacked Google, it is only recently that I have found - due to Google's self inflicted ails that ATW will bring home the results.

There is no question about Google alway being first choice ... once, who knows, she may get better:)

martinibuster




msg:221178
 5:48 am on Jun 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

peewhy, enough already. In message #20 you already conceded that you were banging the drums too much for ATW and yet you persist.

If you re-read this thread you will see that there were some senior members here who gave you great counter-views and are no longer responding to this thread.

peewhy




msg:221179
 6:07 am on Jun 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

..sorry, just responding to posts. Didn't realise is was against the rules.

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