| 3:53 pm on May 23, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>>I realize we are all here to optimize for Google
I strongly recommend optimizing for _all_ the major engines in addition to Google. Go for Google first because they have the most users then start working on ranking great on Google _and_ all the others, simultaniously.
That will serve you in good stead for the future. :)
I agree with you about ATW being a good engine. In addition to the "convert:" feature the calculator function should make ATW really attractive to students.
| 6:25 am on May 25, 2003 (gmt 0)|
It's hard to actively optimize for alternative engines like ATW for 2 reasons:
(1) Why waste time optimizing for an engine that doesn't really return any traffic?
(2) We know far less about the other engines than we do about Google.
Google sometimes requires special care but in an engine like ATW it appears that you need to do less and they mostly only care about on-page content.
Currently ATW is by far my favorite engine.
| 6:43 am on May 25, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I find myself using a local (country) search engine for local searches. If I am doing a country specific product search I am finding total junk from Google! just because a site has a high pr and has the country once in a tiny text link on the bottom of the page doesn't mean its releavent!
I would use ATW ahead of Google if it had a highlight or Cache feature.
| 7:57 am on May 25, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Woop1 you may well prefer one SE over another but as webmasters what we likes does not really count.
Have you seen an increase in visitors from ATW?
I only ask because is others think like you then you and we all should have seen an increase in hits.
| 10:00 am on May 25, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I agree that ATW is a good engine. I use it and the cool features more and more, and I'm actually finding what I'm looking for. IMO Fast is far from dead and they keep on signing new deals and working on expading their reach.
>Why waste time optimizing for an engine that doesn't really return any traffic?
Who knows what will happen and couple of months down the road? Suddenly you could find yourself in a situation where a small engine's technology powers a huge portal or network of sites. Then it would be nice to be ahead and the hours spend on researching that particular engine would pay off.
>We know far less about the other engines than we do about Google.
My point exactly. You need to know about the big 4 (AV, Ink, GG and Fast) to be able to react if something radical evolves. Of course some of these won't bring you much traffic today, but somehow I feel that this might change over a short period of time.
See all the comments popping up about gg, relevancy, spam etc. lately? It only takes one desision from one CEO at a major site to bring some serious spotlight to fx. Fast. If he too feels that their current engine is not delivering and there's another that does, voila there you have a whole new playing field.
>I strongly recommend optimizing for _all_ the major engines in addition to Google
Couldn't agree more Brad!
However I DO feel a bit cranky when one of my pages once again hit the top spot for a relevant keyphrase and the traffic isn't there ;)
| 12:02 pm on May 25, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>>However I DO feel a bit cranky when one of my pages once again hit the top spot for a relevant keyphrase and the traffic isn't there
I agree Rumbas. However, as webmasters, that situation is partially our own fault. If the general public does not know about ATW maybe we should tell them about it, just like woop01 and John_Creed told us?
| 4:32 am on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)|
If you want to make them more popular put this on your homepage
<p>Have you tried this <a href="http://www.alltheweb.com">Fantastic Search Engine</a>?</p>
Of course, it will kind of hurt to know you are sending them more traffic than they are sending you.;)
| 9:45 am on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>If the general public does not know about ATW maybe we should tell them about it
That's what we're doing right here in this forum and giving them the opportunity to speak at the Pubconf's.
>you are sending them more traffic than they are sending you
Lol powdork :)
| 10:51 am on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)|
ATW is good Engine, but is it really as good or near as good as Google?
For me Certainly by far not.I have optimized pages in google and ATW, it's just fairly very easy to do in ATW and when I looked at results arround 3 out of 10 were relevant in atw compared to 10/10 in google.
The File name dependency factor of Atw is major resource for Spamsters.
Infact your inside page with the same file name as keyword report rank much higher (in atw) then your homepage even though your homepage is optimized for the same keyword.
Ps: Convert is a great option.:)
| 10:56 am on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Powdork, that is a very good idea. You may be right about send ATW more traffic than it sends, but it is a sacrifice for a long term goal.
Rumbas, the exposure given to ATW here at WW is not to be underestimated. Heck, I first heard about them here. However, we are not the "general public" I was thinking about. We need to tell it to the folks who visit the websites and not the folks who build the websites. :)
| 1:43 pm on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)|
ATW is a very good Alternative engine but it still has a long way to go IMHO. I agree about the exposure the engine gets through WW. Even i heard first about them over here.
| 1:53 pm on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)|
ATW has some issues with being stable from time to time. A member pointed out a search where loads of ebay redirects were occupying serps. On other occasions index pages were missing.
Looking at the utter mess Google produces those are minor issues however.
ATW has been and will probably continue to be a showcase and R & D sandbox.
It also has been geeks and information pros choice for a long time.
Their overall relevancy and underlying algo is of course on par with Google's. The times when Google had a superior algo are long gone.
The index ATW showcases is for European markets still #2 behind Google. They still have some pretty potent outlets in some countries.
The worldwide combined Lycos traffic is not too bad either.
| 10:30 pm on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Something I find ATW really good for is very obscure searches when I'm flailing about in the dark not sure what I should be searching with, I can't get as good results from anywhere else. For example, on a whim I was trying to find a place I'd stayed on holiday as a kid. I could remember roughly the region and a few things about the area, but that was all. I tried searching ATW by writing a description of the place and ATW actually found it! I'm really impressed with that. Google returned no matching search terms and AV came up with a few attempts but not the right place.
| 10:47 pm on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)|
heini - I agree with you there. I was doing a search on ATW the other day and the majority of the first two SERPS were all ebay redirects. All the url's were different but you could tell they were all from the same person/business.
I do get a lot of "page cannot be found" results on google though - they are far from perfect in that aspect...
| 10:53 pm on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)|
They had this ebay problem before on one or two times, but I remember more than one occasion where people were quite upset to find the same problem with Google, don't know about Ink and AV.
Whatever. I sincerely hope Overture and their new chief scientist will put the necessary funds in to develop the strengths further. I reckon there's some good stuff in the pipeline waiting to be fully deployed.
| 7:10 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|Their overall relevancy and underlying algo is of course on par with Google's. The times when Google had a superior algo are long gone. |
'is, of course on par with Google's' - sorry, that made me splutter a bit. The field I've just been searching in was junk-laden to the 'nth degree compared to G, whether the current G index, or the one from 2 months back.
A few weeks ago the results looked good, I thought, but today they're thin and weak. Big sites missing, doorway pages screaming in your face, junky hyphen domains, a top 5 result is a domain that has been parked for 4 years, and there are numerous jump.to, lo.to style redirect service results.
Of course we all have different takes, and normally I wouldn't comment, but my experience, at present, flies in the face of your very bold statement.
| 12:24 pm on May 29, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>>Their overall relevancy and underlying algo is of course on par with Google's. The times when Google had a superior algo are long gone.
Mat I am with you in this aspect.
I have had good one keyword results for sometime but I do get horrendous results with Affiliate URL redirect's dominating the pages for keyphrases at ATW.
It's too bold statement Heini ,I cannot concurr with the theory either.
| 1:15 pm on May 29, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I've had the exact opposite experience from you with my particular field.
| 8:40 am on May 30, 2003 (gmt 0)|
With the almost constant refreshes, you're bound to see some spammy sites get in on a regular basis, but imo they tend to dissapear again in short period of time.
The algo seems to weed them out over time.
| 2:38 pm on May 31, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I find the number of pages ATW indexes to be far superior to G. When I search my sites main keyword (which is relatively unique to my site) ATW returns every page on my web, including many other sites which have links to me. G on the other hand list half as many of my pages, only a few of the sites which link to me and a whole load of porn sites which have nothing to do with my site.
| 4:30 am on Jun 1, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I have similar experience. I put up my site in mid-April and soon most pages (about 100) were on the ATW, Gooogle deepcrawled all my pages about the same time, and recently its freshbots have been visiting me, but one and a half months later still only my index page is indexed! Only problem is nobody seems to be using ATW.
| 5:53 pm on Jun 1, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I agree, ATW is an excellent search, but I know people who have much more internet knowledge than I, who have never heard of it (until I told them).
| 2:18 pm on Jun 2, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I used to use All the web all the time, but have recently switched to google about two months ago. Now I hate google a bit both as a user and webmaster due to spam.
Why would a user want 3 results in a 10 result page with pure keywords and links on? That's no good to anyone and as the spammer's actual web site content doesn't contain the keywords in the first place the main site that the spam is linked to is obviously not going to be much help with what I'm searching for.
Also those 3 results are taking up space on the first page where some decent quality sites could be, but instead are pushed back to page 2 where I hardly ever look.
However All the web is even worse in my opinion and has loads of pages in results from the same site, and spam, with no report form.
I got 2 referals from ATW last month and over 2200 from Google ;)
| 2:34 pm on Jun 2, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I had very similar referral results last month (13 ATW vs 1350 Google).
| 2:52 pm on Jun 2, 2003 (gmt 0)|
ATW is not intended nor promoted as search destination. It's a testbed and showcase only.
The question discussed in this thread however is if ATW delivers better results than Google.
All I can say is I use ATW for years now to find stuff, and I'm not exactly an inexperienced user. There's absolutely no doubt that ATW is an excellent engine, most experts have long acknowledged that. Both engines, ATW and Google, have their stronger and weaker points, but all in all they have been on par for a long time.
Add ATW's unmatched advanced search functionalites and you have a winner.
| 3:22 pm on Jun 2, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|I find the number of pages ATW indexes to be far superior to G |
I agree, ATW indexes better and faster in my experience. I've had my site up for around 3 months, in that time, google has indexed areound 150 pages of my site, and ATW has indexed at least 10 times that much. They handle query strings better, and index deeper and faster.
The SERPS are good too, as they dont rely too heavily on the holy grail of PR (or ATW's equivilant). My positions in ATW are good, and the consistency of results is good too. The one thing I hate about google is it ranks too much on PR, it always returns results from the biggest sites, and the biggest sites (high PR) are not always the best. It seems that if a page has a high PR even though it may have only a few of the keywords you are looking for, it still ranks higher by accident.
| 5:47 pm on Jun 2, 2003 (gmt 0)|
When I search for my sitename I come up number one in ATW for www.mydomain.com . Thing is, I also come up at number 8 with the same URL, title and description. That's a bit odd. I wonder whether that's happening for a lot of domains.
| 7:20 pm on Jun 2, 2003 (gmt 0)|
ATW is on par with google, but the facts are simple.
Google/Yahoo represents 36% of my referrals in the month of May.
ATW less than .1%
I am a fair weather webmaster...
| 7:49 pm on Jun 2, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I too have a lot more pages in the FAST index (than Google), but the traffic is nowhere close.
As a user, I am going to give ATW and Teoma a try for the next few weeks.
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