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Deprecated - Altavista, Alltheweb.com Forum

Recovering from Insite Select submission
Getting back in after removing from index

 3:28 am on Dec 5, 2002 (gmt 0)

Yesterday I took the step of clicking "URL Deactivate" which says "Deactivating will remove the URL from the FAST Index." Today I am completely out of AlltheWeb and Lycos.

I then submitted my site via the free submission, but now I am wondering, will this "deactivate" in InSite Select poison my ability to be listed in the index via free submit? I don't see a way to just delete the whole InSite Select membership (let alone get my money back).

Does anyone have experience with this? A free listing will move me up 400 slots in the results over where I was after using InSite, but will FAST now prevent me from being listed altogether because I deactivated InSite Select?



 3:29 pm on Dec 5, 2002 (gmt 0)

It would be handy to know your sites position prior to inclusion in the Insite programme. This you could then measure against any listings attained once you have unsubscribed from the Insite listings programme. Otherwise I think it would be all guesswork.



 6:22 am on Dec 6, 2002 (gmt 0)

I do know all my listing, prior to submitting, after submitting, after a few weeks, after deactivating... now I just have to wait for it to reappear thanks to the free submission. The question is if the "deactivate" thing will overide a free submission. I would guess it wouldn't but nothing would surprise me now.


 2:49 pm on Dec 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

I've also been thinking about doing this de-activation.

Now, even when I search for my site with a long list of precise and ordered keywords - known only to me - I still barely show up.

I'm sure my position was more prominent before (but I didn't keep records then). It certainly doesn't square with my No 1 - 2 Serp in my own country, and No 15 in the World on Google for a very simple keyword combination.

I wonder though, after looking through Alltheweb's search results, whether there is a basic relevancy problem with this engine. Page 1 SERPs on my keywords as delivered by Fast are at the borders of relevancy.

You've helped me make my decision - thanks - whether PFI is to blame, or it is down to poor relevancy - I've got nothing to lose!

I'm about to become a new member of the Fast opt out club -can anybody think of a name for this!

<my edit: It's obvious - FOOC! - says it all!>


 4:02 pm on Dec 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

Some basics considerations on fast PFI and ranking:

PFI does not influence ranking whatsoever. Pages are subject to the same ranking process as free pages.

So that means pages which formerly were paid for inclusion and now are indexed for free won't neccessarily be ranked differently.

If they are ranked differently that is due to changes in the ranking process.

Anybody watching Fast will agree ranking changes on a regular basis.

So wether you do PFI or not it's absolutely normal that the ranking of the pages fluctuates.

When opting out of PFI pages get delisted. If and when Fast reindexes those pages for free nobody knows.

Just something to consider before deactivating pages you have a one year subscription on.


 4:09 pm on Dec 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

But PFI and non-PFI are listed on separate databases aren't they?


 4:16 pm on Dec 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

I tend to think so. Not sure. One thing is clear: they get visited by different spiders. Basically it doesn't matter if the pages are in different dbs or not, as long as they are clearly seperated and identifiable for Fast.

Anyway, there are two facts important in this regard: upon deactivating the pages from your PFI account they are not in Fast anymore. And while the pages are in they are subject to the same algo as the free pages.


 5:43 pm on Dec 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'm sure I've read somewhere on these pages that the Fast database is distinct from the non-PFI database in Fast.

(still checking previous posts)

If this is the case, I can't think why.

The expectation of a PFI customer (having parted with hard cash!) would be that they were listed in *exactly* the same way as all other listings - but were listed promptly, and more frequently.

Can anyone else shed light on this or find the previous postings?

<my edit: ref checking previous posts: Heini - it was you who proposed that PFI and non-PFI used different databases!>

[edited by: WebManager at 5:55 pm (utc) on Dec. 8, 2002]


 5:50 pm on Dec 8, 2002 (gmt 0)


you originally wrote

A free listing will move me up 400 slots in the results over where I was after using InSite

I sympathise totally - but my own evidence is anecdotal - are you certain of this drop in SERP?

What can Fast PFI possibly gain from this mess-up?

Please sticky me with your thoughts (I have one or two of my own!)


 2:43 am on Dec 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

"I sympathise totally - but my own evidence is anecdotal - are you certain of this drop in SERP?"

Yes, it's obvious. Huge drops in search results, even for exact site title and long strings of phrases and sentences.

"What can Fast PFI possibly gain from this mess-up?"

Well I'd assume ineptness not deliberate badness.

I was crawled for the first time since deactivating (only three pages tho) yesterday. Somehow though I have 130 pages listed for a site:domain.com search. When I deactivated I did completely drop out of the search results. I don't know if this means that those pages are still sitting there but won't be allowed to show in the results or what. I hope I reappear in a couple weeks but if the process is that those 130 phantom pages don't drop out until an update and *then* I need to resubmit via the free submit, that could take more time.


 7:04 pm on Dec 9, 2002 (gmt 0)


I've been thinking... (why not break the habit of a lifetime ;) )

If it is a genuine and simple PFI, then there's no reason at all why anything should happen when you opt out from PFI - until the next update.

But the fact that something - anything! - does happen, means that the PFI crawling/listing is not being treated the same as other listings.

Now Heini (who is invariably positive about the Fast experience...) states that the algo is the same - so why isn't the listing insertion the same?

None of this adds up

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