Mikkel Svendsen
msg:891506 | 1:34 am on Sep 8, 2002 (gmt 0) |
I would like to know more about how you can be 100% sure you log when the page has been loaded? :)
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Pushycat
msg:891507 | 2:10 am on Sep 8, 2002 (gmt 0) |
I think the most basic problem you'll face is people like me who browse with JavaScript turned off.
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ChrisXenon
msg:891508 | 10:18 pm on Sep 8, 2002 (gmt 0) |
I can't add to my earlier explanation of how "page loaded" is measured, I juss call the Java Script function provided. Sure, with JavaScript off, none of this works, but I don't really care, as the goal here is to judge whether or not page size is turning customers away. The fact that up to 10% of logs are missing due to disabled JS is not a factor in this analysis.
Chris
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Mikkel Svendsen
msg:891509 | 11:03 pm on Sep 8, 2002 (gmt 0) |
The reason I am asking is that as far as I know it is not possible to measure when a page has finally loaded unless you check the data packages. However, I could be wrong, so I'd just like to know how you do it (or the ones who supplied the script) I can imagine one way that they "think" they can do it - and that would be by placing some code in the end of the HTML that calls the function. However, I do not believe there is any way to controll what objects are being loaded first or last so the script don't have to be loaded last just because it's last in the code. The reason I am digging into this is that your numbers do not sound right to me. I very much doubt your average user can download with that speed. Denmark (and Scandinavia) is one of the places with the highest broadband penetration and we don't get anywhere close to that (measure on network level). Also, even if most users will download your entire pages do not expect spiders to do so. 100 k is lot - if you multiply that by 2.5 billion pages... and growing! You should not expect spiders to eat all that :)
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ChrisXenon
msg:891510 | 9:14 am on Sep 9, 2002 (gmt 0) |
Hi Mikkel, I added a JavaScript OnLoad event inside the BODY tag. This event is native to JavaScript - it is not an add-on script. There is no other information to add. The implementation of this language primitive is down to the browser manufacturers. From the browser programming environment, it will be easy to know when all GET requests have been fulfilled, so I would think this primitive works reliably, but then - part of the reason for my post was to check this.
CHeers,
Chris
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Mikkel Svendsen
msg:891511 | 7:29 pm on Sep 9, 2002 (gmt 0) |
With the limited documentation available it is hard to say if it works or not - but I doubt it :)
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ChrisXenon
msg:891512 | 10:02 am on Sep 11, 2002 (gmt 0) |
Eh? Why wouldn't a build-in JavaScript language primitive work?
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Mikkel Svendsen
msg:891513 | 12:25 pm on Sep 11, 2002 (gmt 0) |
Because there is no way for the JavaScript to know when the page has loaded :) I have so far only seen two ways to determine that - and one one that is bullet proof. 1.
You can compare the downloaded file sizes with the actual file sizes. If the file returned from the server is smaller than the actual file you know they didn't get all of it - but you don't know why (don't the session terminate? Did they hit http stop request? Or did something else happen...?) 2.
Using Network Package Sniffing you can grab the stop request and also analyse the raw data packages to compare what is requested and what is returned - not what the server return, but what is actually transmitted as data to the client. I believe the last solution is the best (but also very pricey!)
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Josk
msg:891514 | 8:40 am on Sep 12, 2002 (gmt 0) |
check [htmlcompendium.org,...] they have a good section of this with examples you can try in different browsers... But I would go with comparing file sizes as (a) it reduces the amount of code to be maintained on a page and (b) doesn't rely on the user
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ChrisXenon
msg:891515 | 9:50 am on Sep 12, 2002 (gmt 0) |
I would have thought the browser will know when the page is completely loaded, as it is issuing HTTP GET requests for all page elements, and will be able to read EOT from the pipes in all cases. When there are no more open GET requests, the page is fully loaded.
Since the browser knows this, it can inform the onLoad JavaScript primitive of the correct answer in all cases.
No?
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c3oc3o
msg:891516 | 10:10 am on Sep 12, 2002 (gmt 0) |
Yes, onLoad should fire when the page is completely loaded, including graphics etc.
Whether all browsers have this correctly implemented I'm not sure, I read somewhere that it might sometimes be buggy (no details given though, it was actually in a rant on a blog about why Mozilla is better than IE, so of questionable credibility).
Your logs might also be skewed a bit by people with graphics turned off (although I don't believe those could be more than 1%), plugins not installed, etc.
Also, the average speed alone might not be enough detail. Maybe a few people on very fast provider/office lines are skewing that.
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ChrisXenon
msg:891517 | 10:38 am on Sep 12, 2002 (gmt 0) |
Good points all, c3oc3o, thanks. Chris
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