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Yahoo Search Engine and Directory Forum

This 72 message thread spans 3 pages: 72 ( [1] 2 3 > >     
Ny Times Say Yahoo Google Relations Strained
Allergic

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 5:40 am on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

[...Yahoo is said to be seriously considering switching its Web search to Inktomi, a Google rival that does not run its own Web site...] is in this : New York Times [nytimes.com] news. Weard choice?

 

bobriggs

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 5:45 am on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I don't believe anything they print. period.

Macguru

WebmasterWorld Senior Member macguru us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 5:46 am on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Very nice find Allergic!

Thanks for sharing.

veneerz



 
Msg#: 920 posted 6:17 am on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Some time ago NY times used one of the liberal news sources, now I often confuse it with the Post. Probably someone affiliated with Intcomi paid for this article, so their stock can have a small rally one last time and those someones can "cash in"

RBuzz

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 6:28 am on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I just don't get it. I don't have anything against Inktomi, but why is Yahoo still farming this out? Buy some full-text search engine technology, take everything in-house, and create some lovely in-house search results that don't go outside the Yahoo properties, don't shore up anybody's popularity, and don't have contacts that expire in a couple of years.

If they don't want to do that, they could go with AlltheWeb, but maybe they're afraid of creating another Googlesque situation. One thing you can say for Inktomi, since they don't run their own branded search engine, Yahoo won't be supporting a competitor.

GoInkGo

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 2:10 pm on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Yahoo is said to be seriously considering switching its Web search to Inktomi

This is great news ! :)

It's the first time in about 5 months that we read something that can give a good clue of who will be on Y! :)

gopi

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 3:00 pm on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Oh GOD...this is really a Bad News. Yahoo's search experience is going to be worse and it will sure screw the Yahoo brand.

Napoleon



 
Msg#: 920 posted 3:40 pm on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I wouldn't get too worked up about it just yet - it's largely speculation. Look at the words:

"Yahoo is said to be..."

"And industry executives say..."

How convenient that all this is totally non-attributable. It's just old fashioned spin.

Weighing the little evidence that we actually have, Google must still be favorite to keep the contract.

RBuzz

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 3:46 pm on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

You think so? I don't. Not after that Google News launch.

JayC

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 3:46 pm on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Seems, Allergic, that you're putting a little "spin" on the news! :)

Yahoo is said to be seriously considering switching its Web search to Inktomi, a Google rival that does not run its own Web site.

"Yahoo is said to be seriously considering switching," I'd say, is closer to "there's a rumor that they're thinking about it" than to "Yahoo will probably switch."

By the way, if Inktomi "does not run its own Web site" what's that site at www.inktomi.com? Not exactly the most accurate writing or editing.

Rugles

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 3:53 pm on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

The stock market is ignoring this article as far as Ink is concerned.

I hope they do not switch from G. It would definately cost me traffic.

Napoleon



 
Msg#: 920 posted 3:55 pm on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

In my opinion the news thing is a red herring.

If Google REALLY wanted to damage Yahoo and take its turf, there would be another tab on offer on the Google Home Page. Under that tab would be email services, etal... all the stuff that Yahoo is attempting to make money out of. The 'Google Portal' could emerge rather quickly if Google wanted it to, and that would be VERY serious news for Yahoo.

Yahoo's best defense? Sign up Google and prohibit this in the contract by delineating and defining boundaries.

That's the sensible decision (IMHO).... deal with the world as it is today... they can't put Google back in the box they released it from yesterday.

rcjordan

WebmasterWorld Senior Member rcjordan us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 4:36 pm on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Thanks, Allergic ..nice find. I'm with RBuzz on this, any way I add it, there's no reason Yahoo should be farming this out over the long term.

nowhere

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 5:04 pm on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

The 'Google Portal' could emerge rather quickly if Google wanted it to, and that would be VERY serious news for Yahoo.

It would also ruin the foundation and philosophy that has had such a huge influence in Google’s rise to stardom. If Google emphasizes anything but search, it's experienced user base would be more acceptable to a new search engine that doesn’t.

On a purely selfish level, I would be privately popping champaign bottles if this happened. I for one am sick of my livelihood depending so strongly on the actions of Google.

jatar_k

WebmasterWorld Administrator jatar_k us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 5:21 pm on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I say Yahoo goes with ink or, maybe, buys them outright. Then they wouldn't be farming anything out. Recent threads here have implied that ink is in trouble. Maybe this is a match made in heaven, two money driven semi spammy results providers walking down the aisle. What could be better?

It only makes sense for Yahoo to dump Google, they are competitors.

>>depending so strongly on the actions of Google

bingo, and remember,
the bigger they are the harder they fall.

rfgdxm1

WebmasterWorld Senior Member rfgdxm1 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 8:37 pm on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

>On a purely selfish level, I would be privately popping champaign bottles if this happened. I for one am sick of my livelihood depending so strongly on the actions of Google.

One thing I can say. My SERPs on main keywords are pretty good on both Google/Yahoo/AOL and MSN, which uses Inktomi. In fact, even *better* on Inktomi driven engines. Assuming my users are typical of people using search engines (they may not be), I am seeing Google way out front, Yahoo a fairly respectable second, and AOL and MSN a notable, but much lower third and fourth. All the rest of the search engines get minimal traffic, even though I tend to have decent SERPs on these keywords with them too. Based on this, if Yahoo goes to Google I'd expect a sudden *strong* increase in SEO emphasis on scoring high with Inktomi. Yahoo is a major force when it comes to searches. Inktomi is probably doing all the can to woo Yahoo.

kawikadave

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 9:52 pm on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I spoke with some ex-Inktomi employees after they were laid off (worforce-optimized, RIF'ed, right-sized, let go, etc.) a month or two ago and they hinted that a Yahoo deal was likely.

Just anecdotal and things could have changed since then, but I wouldn't be surprised to an Inktomi deal.

We'll see soon...

littleman

WebmasterWorld Senior Member littleman us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 10:45 pm on Sep 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

While Yahoo and Google's relationship appears antagonistic, it is actually becoming more symbiotic.
We have:
The new integration of yahoogle search so that categories are shown for individual page results.
The de-branding of Google, which will keep the simple minded from fleeting Yahoo for the Google portal.
Google now sending traffic to Yahoo via the NEWS search.

The only thing left to do is for Google to drop ODP for the Y! directory.

nell

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 1:15 am on Sep 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

>actually becoming more symbiotic<

What appears to be a symbiosis may be no more than a short term ride.
Is Google is running this way with Yahoo until they get some IPO money to go their own way?

Without doubt, Google is a potential threat to Yahoo. As time goes on that threat will increase not decrease. While Inktomi is still alive Yahoo has a chance to curtail that threat. A year from now Google will be that much stronger, Inktomi that much weaker, and Yahoo that much more vulnerable. A Yahoo deal with Inktomi is either now or never. Yahoo and Inktomi have worked together in the past and a long term symbiosis between those parties seems more logical.

Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 4:27 am on Sep 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

Three signs I was watching for:

1) News Engine. (done)
2) Google to introduce a universal signup for all its offerings (api search - answers - usenet groups - etc)
3) Drop the Open Directory.

I expected 1 and 2 if they _didn't_ have Yahoo, and expected #3 if they _did_ have Yahoo.

WebStart

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 5:24 am on Sep 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

I guess I am not too much into the "business thing" about this, but I would say: if any directory, like Yahoo!, which is outdated from the very first instance its humans accept a new listing, uses any other "real" search engine for its default search results other than Google, they are going to bite the dust. Google gives it all. Best and fastest so far, on the board, with the broadest reach.

Yeh I know, I sound like a Google fan. And I am. But I just think Google gives the best results.

Go ahead and search. You won't -- at this point -- find a better result from All the Web, Teoma and WiseNut and etc. Not Yet. They may get there, but they are not yet there. So what would Yahoo! choose: Inktomi? or FAST? A Waste. A Joke.

Sorry, guess that was a little strong re Inktomi & FAST ... but really, given the reach of Google, what directory portal wanting to give its customers straight and great search results would choose other than 'Google' --? unless, of course, the price were too high.

Unless Yahoo! wants to loose ground to AOL (and Netscape) which now use Google, Yahoo! should mind its manners and not fool around with a sure thing. Of course I have a prejudice: I am listed well on Google. You bet I have a prejudice, but also, I hope, some judgement.

Can't see how Yahoo! switching to another search engine like Fast or Teoma would really better its search results, but it might better its dollars if it gets a better deal. But the cost in terms of relevant search results? In the end, I think long term: it would pay them to stay with Google. We just don't know the inside dope on what it costs Yahoo! to do that vs go with someone else.

But Google did not get the Yahoo! account without being wise to what that meant for Google. I am sure they will do all that is necessary to keep it.

FROM the traffic I get, it is down to those two: Google and Yahoo seem now to be the two search places on the web for most consumers. A PARTNERSHIP OR fight seems almost inevitable.

Dante_Maure

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 6:07 am on Sep 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

Three signs I was watching for:

1) News Engine. (done)
2) Google to introduce a universal signup for all its offerings (api search - answers - usenet groups - etc)
3) Drop the Open Directory.

I expected 1 and 2 if they _didn't_ have Yahoo, and expected #3 if they _did_ have Yahoo.

Please expand on this Brett.... I'd love to know your view on these "signs" as they relate to the Google / Yahoo relations.

Brad

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 11:14 am on Sep 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

The problem is that Google will almost inevitably creep towards portalism as they try to come up with even more new consumer-end services to attract eyeballs and revenue.

This may take a long time, but in the long term they will come into a direct competition with Yahoo.

nicebloke

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 11:36 am on Sep 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

Webstart, I think it's possible you may be missing the point in that when joe surfer does a search at Yahoo or MSN or whever they have no clue as to whether it's a Google result or an Ink result or whatever.

I think the belief that thousands of surfers would suddenely desert Yahoo if they switched to Ink is totally unrealistic.

Racecar78

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 12:03 pm on Sep 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

First off, I think Napoleon is on the money.

Beyond that though, if Yahoo! were to choose [st]Inktomi, they would be inadvertently driving traffic to Google and others. No one in their right mind would stick to using that search index... If you don't type in a search phrase of more than four words - you're damn well going to get a boatload of affiliate sites at ther top - Not exactly what Y! is all about... Right?

In any event, let Y! do it if they so choose. They're not worth an ounce of effort now, and sure as hell won't be after they make a mistake like the one rumored in the Times.

TomWaits

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 12:27 pm on Sep 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

As long as Google powers AOL search, they won't drop DMOZ for the Yahoo directory, whether or not they also power Yahoo search.

What puzzles me is that for Inky, you get 2 different results whether you search on MSN or Overture. Try it.

chopsticks

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 1:06 pm on Sep 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

For those who don't know the economic basis for Yahoo's decisions... remember that they're located in Silicon Valley (extremely overpriced real estate and very expensive to hire computer people). Of course Yahoo has offices in other locations (notably overseas) but they are primarily based in the valley.

Why should Yahoo! re-invent the wheel with their own search engine? Why spend all the time, money & bandwidth the spider the web? Remember that it takes tons of bandwidth, tons of disk space, tons of processing power, etc. Better for them to outsource it... and they can always change their outsourcing as they see fit.

The more popular Google becomes the more they get an attitude. They have been the golden child for a while now... and that threatens Yahoo! But more than the threat of competition I believe there is an inherent trade-off between Google returning great results and Yahoo's users opting to NOT use the directory style navigation of Yahoo.

Keep in mind that LookSmart & ODP have similar "directory" models to Yahoo!... yet neither one has a large amount of traffic to their own sites. Search engines are still the primary way for users to browse the web.

I believe that Inktomi and Looksmart both give "profit sharing" to MSN. Likely Yahoo! would like to get some extra pocket cash as well! (Google isn't PAYING Yahoo!)

nell

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 1:11 pm on Sep 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

>they would be inadvertently driving traffic to Google and others>

. . . and of course Yahoo would just sit by completely helpless while that happend.

Don't you think that Inktomi will agree to make whatever adjustments, accomodations and/or changes that Yahoo deems important to Yahoo? The last time there was a Yahoo/Ink relationship Ink no one party were calling the shots. Now, Yahoo will be the taskmaster. Remember, without Yahoo Ink is doomed.

With Google, Yahoo will always be looking over their shoulder. Google now have their own news engine. Do you think they asked Yahoo's permission before they did it? Google will always do what Google feels they need to do. . . . and Yahoo knows it all too well. Yahoo created a troglodite when they got involved with Google. Ask Yahoo the famous question, "Are you better off now than you were a year ago?" What do you think Yahoo's answer would be? Were they better off before they made Google a star or after.

Yahoo would be a fool to keep pumping up Google. With Inktomi they can compose their own music.

.

.

egomaniac

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 1:46 pm on Sep 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

Generally I have been speculating here at WebmasterWorld that Google and Yahoo will stay together. Yesterday though I did a search at Yahoo and it defaulted to "Web Page Matches" results (i.e. Google), AND there was no reference to being provided by Google. That's right, the "Search Technology Provided by Google" in the upper right corner was absent. The page also looked very different: Tan colored page accents (instead of usual light blue), and the links were in a font much larger than normal.

This made me think "hmmm, maybe they are going to insert INK results here." Yahoo could default to the INK web page matches since INK could share revenues from their PFI searches.

I don't know if this means anything, but it sure was wierd. I ran the same search this morning, and it is back to normal for me. I can't duplicate yesterday's results (I should've taken a screen shot).

EliteWeb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member eliteweb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 920 posted 2:30 pm on Sep 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

If google wanted to it could setup a portal with everything now such as Yahoo has and still have it be Google style with everything clean and wonderful and pure. They have the news headlines, they have access to the directory, search results and news. With a little layout a few nice colors maybe a graphic or too google could have the enxt portal and phase out yahoo's everyday use ;).

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