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Google PR directly influencing Yahoo directory results?
dave83




msg:825460
 6:15 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

As has been discussed previously, there has been some recent shuffling in Yahoo's rankings.. One thing I haven't seen discussed, if it was I missed it is the apparent use of Google page rank in Yahoo's directly algo..

Let's look an real world example..

I have a client who sells window blinds.. a fairly competitive Yahoo phrase.. we used the same techniques we have used for a while and achieved a page 1 #1 for this client for the term window blinds.. he had an existing site that was doing very well in Google, but the domain name stunk and it was just not really set up to do well in Yahoo so it was much easier to create a new site for the directories.. we got him listed in early January and he received a top ranking for his main keyword 'window blinds' then boom, about 4 weeks ago I guess it was.. he's listed # 300 or something.. The new site has no Google page rank. the new top 20 was dramatically different from what was listed previously.

here's what I found, sites currently ranked in yahoo's directory for the term window blinds

yahoo rankings/ google page rank
#1 - PR6
#2 - PR6
#3 - PR6
#4 - PR6
#5 - PR6
#6 - PR5
#7 - PR5
#8 - PR5
#9 - PR5
#10 - PR5
#11 - PR5
#12 - PR5
#13 - PR5
#14 - PR3
#15 - PR5
#16 - PR5
#17 - PR5
#18 - PR5
#19 - PR5
#20 - PR5
#35 - PR4
#40 - PR4
#45 - PR4
#50 - PR5
#55 - PR4
#60 - PR4
#65 - PR4
#75 - PR4
#85 - PR2
#95 - PR4
#100- PR3

I also had a site ranked in the top 3 on Yahoo for a very competitive phrase, one of my own sites.. it had been # 3 for about a year.. last month it got hit with the google PR0 and has now dropped into oblivion on yahoo.. and I'm talking about the directory, not web pages here..

you can take almost any modestly competitive phrase and replicate these results..

search for a competitive phrase in yahoo and see if you can find one top ranking thast doesn't have a high Google page rank..

try health insurance..

#1 PR 8
#2 PR 7
#3 PR 6
#4 PR 6
#5 PR 6

and so on..

It appears that right now Google Page rank is MAJOR factor in Yahoo's algo..

any thoughts?

 

agerhart




msg:825461
 6:19 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Dave,

I have discussed this with people before. I know for a fact that there is a large relationship between Yahoo ranking and Google PR/ranking.

Our site sat in the #3 and sometimes #2 spot, with good rankings in Google and a PR of 6. Then our site got hit with a penalty, our PR got wiped and we were out of the DB for 3 months. Our Yahoo rankings instantly plummeted to below 200.

Now our Google rankings and PR are back, and guess who followed along?......Yahoo rankings back to the top 5.

<added>

I am not sure why this has never been publicly discussed before.

</added>

WebGuerrilla




msg:825462
 6:47 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

We have discussed it before, but many people just don't won't to believe it. It became quite obvious when the PRzero penalty hit. all the sites I looked at that got the penalty, also dissappeared from Yahoo SERPS.

Yahoo is absolutely, without question using PR to sort directory results.

starec




msg:825463
 7:11 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Oh boy, rather scary... It should be called "double whammy penalty" then.

JamesR




msg:825464
 7:43 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Pays to play clean, doesn't it?

TallTroll




msg:825465
 8:29 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

>> PR directly influencing Yahoo directory results

Ree-lee?? Makes sense if you think about it, Y! are already pulling a feed from Google for their google.yahoo results. Why not pull the PR too? It makes the Y! results look more like GG results ;)

Google have demonstrated a tendency to strong-arm trheir partners (anyone think the ODP green ball link was ODPs idea?)

makemetop




msg:825466
 9:04 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Not wishing to beat drum - but didn't I point this out [webmasterworld.com] quite a while ago? It has been pooh-poohed many times - but obvious facts are obvious facts! Nice to see people starting to agree (at last).

It is seen regularly, if you handle a lot of sites - especially if a few of them get banned/PR0 and then unbanned/PR1+.

(edited by: makemetop at 9:14 pm (utc) on Mar. 21, 2002)

NFFC




msg:825467
 9:09 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

>bit didn't I point this out quite a while ago?

Yes, but at the time it wasn't true :)

We need much more data to be sure *and* there is a huge difference from saying that Y! penalises sites with PR0 compared to Y! uses PR to rank it's SERP's.

I have a guy working on collecting the data now, give it a month and maybe things will be clearer.

makemetop




msg:825468
 9:17 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

>wasn't true..

Oh, that's a bit unfair. I'll accept it was/is a theory not proven or was/is in doubt - but I believe it was as true then as I believe it is true now.

Looking forward to the research though :)

agerhart




msg:825469
 9:21 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hey Makemetop, don't feel bad, I was right with ya! It was only a theory of mine back then, but now I know it is a fact.

Michael Weir




msg:825470
 9:22 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Very interesting.

NFFC




msg:825471
 9:28 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

>but I believe it was as true then as I believe it is true now.

We will have to disagree on that one. :)

This worries me:

If Google were providing the tech to rank the Y! SERP's then I feel that it is a core area of Y!'s business. If that is the case then surely they would have to declare their "reliance" on a third party provider in their SEC filings. They don't according to filings dated the 15th of this month.

makemetop




msg:825472
 9:41 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Now that IS really interesting.

I have a site that was accepted into Yahoo 5 weeks ago and ranked in the top 5 for a highly competitive phrase. Normally I expect the site to sink down after about 4 weeks until it gains some sort of PageRank when it then rises again. The site was accepted into the ODP a week later and was spidered by Google. Due to certain things not to be discussed here - the site was removed a week later from the ODP and got hit by a PR0 a week later in Google. Though we SEOs often talk about our sites having no spam content - this one really does not! (Sticky me for details). No links out (apart to a Government site) - no links in - apart from Yahoo, L$ and the (abortive) ODP listing.

Yahoo UK then moved the site to last position overnight and I expect the same thing to happen on main Yahoo within 48hrs of the next Google update (it is still in the top 5).

Having told the client my theory they are VERY interested to see if Yahoo are taking Google's idea of a 'quality' site into consideration - rather than being a directory ranking sites on merit and popularity (via click-through) or other things in their own algo.

I'm now even more interested in any forthcoming research (apart from my own)!

NFFC




msg:825473
 9:46 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

>Though we SEOs often talk about our sites having no spam content - this one really does not!

Does the IP belong to a C class that you also promote?

makemetop




msg:825474
 10:16 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

>Does the IP belong to a C class that you also promote?

No. Completely different host, different country , different C block :)

Once bitten (or thought I felt a yapping at my heels) twice shy.

JamesR




msg:825475
 10:33 pm on Mar 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

The PR thing has never been as obvious as it has in this last update/algo change (thanks for the rundown dave83, that is nice work). Before we thought it had to do with click pop but even that was very sketchy. The algo seemed to be rotating or had some factors that just couldn't be nailed down. PR was one of the first things looked at but could not find any exact correlation every time (I am talking a few months ago - November - [webmasterworld.com...] ). But again, as dave had pointed out, there it is.

przero




msg:825476
 12:01 am on Mar 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

I hate to throw a wrench in this but one of my clients has a pr0 site that has a ranking of #17 on page 1.

<added>A little more history on this is probably appropriate. The site was firmly entrenched in the #1 spot for more than a year. Then, late last year, they received the pr0. Then a month ago the site dropped to #200 or something. Then a couple of weeks ago it rose to #17, still with a pr of zilch. I have to say that the 16 in front of us include a few legitimate sites for our keywords, but a few of them are far off target.</added>

mr_dredd2




msg:825477
 11:39 pm on Mar 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

a number of our sites got pr0 and since then have been at the bottom of yahoo. not 100% correlation, but as much as u can get for a theory in search engine land.

what makes me quite mad is that u pay $300 for a listing, then another company decide your site is crap, and then yahoo use that external decision to s**t on your $300.

Thats worse than ink, overture and av put together!

2_much




msg:825478
 12:57 am on Mar 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

It all depends on the search term. For some 1 word keywords, they rely on Google's PR for rankings. When you get into 2 or 3 word keywords, especially the less competitive ones, they rely a lot more on the title and description.

NFFC




msg:825479
 10:33 pm on Mar 27, 2002 (gmt 0)

>For some 1 word keywords, they rely on Google's PR for rankings

Maybe it is Google relying on Y!

>It all depends on the search term

They either do or they don't. imho

papabaer




msg:825480
 7:06 am on Mar 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

This topic got me checking... All of my first place Google rankings hold similar rankings on Yahoo. I though, the rankings are not identical with Google's for the sites directly below me... there is a different order there.

Interesting.

Alby




msg:825481
 11:23 pm on Apr 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

This was complete news to me but after checking my competitors I am sure it is true. Another reason to stick to my plan of buying links from pages with high PR's to boost my Page Rank.

Thank you Dave83 for bringing this up.

opidole




msg:825482
 9:06 pm on Apr 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Thanks for bringing up this important Yahoo! topic Dave83

Has anyone begun to understand the interval that Yahoo! queries against google and refreshes it's own results.

I'm almost positive that it isn't live time.

Alby




msg:825483
 12:07 am on Apr 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

NFFC

I have a guy working on collecting the data now, give it a month and maybe things will be clearer.

A month has passed, have you got any interesting results that you would be willing to share?

poet22




msg:825484
 11:50 pm on Apr 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

How do you explain sites ranked top 5 in yahoo serps for the most competetive adult search terms and these sites are NOT even in Google at all?

NFFC




msg:825485
 8:32 am on Apr 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

Waiting for this update to settle BUT a penalty at Google will transfer to Y!. Make of that what you will.

>these sites are NOT even in Google at all?

Going to play about with some aspects of that.

egomaniac




msg:825486
 5:10 pm on Apr 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

<comment deleted by egomaniac to start a new thread>

crobb305




msg:825487
 8:20 pm on Apr 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

I am a new member, so if this has been discussed elsewhere, please accept my apologies. I read above that there is a direct correlation between Google PR and Yahoo! Directory listings. However, my site has a pr of 4, yet I have been watching it's Y! rankings go down. This month alone, my site went from position 58 to 69 under a popular search term in Y!. There are at least 2 sites with Google PR0 that have higher rankings than mine under the same search term. Any ideas why this might be happening? Again, my site has Google PR4.

Thanks.

NFFC




msg:825488
 9:46 pm on Apr 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

>there is a direct correlation between Google PR and Yahoo! Directory listings

Some think there is, some don't.

<dogboy_style>
The key is it doesn't matter....the tactics don't change. If they do or don't are you going to shoot for a lower PR....no...the game is the same, build that PR...let it flow.

The advantadge will only come if you think out of the box...keep the faith and look for the advantadge...the advantadge won't come from following the herd...play the PR game enjoy the fruits of your labour at G! and if it happens to flow through to Y! too...that's cool! BUT what advantadge is there?...none...the game remains the same.

Look hard at Y!, find reasons to disagree with the PR angle and go with them...[the PRO is a whole different game, common business practice is to pass round lists of the "bad boys"]...think on this..

Does click tracking on the Yahoogle results affect rankings in the Y! search?
</dogboy_style>

eljefe3




msg:825489
 2:40 am on Apr 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

>>However, my site has a pr of 4, yet I have been watching it's Y! rankings go down. This month alone, my site went from position 58 to 69 under a popular search term in Y!. There are at least 2 sites with Google PR0 that have higher rankings than mine under the same search term. Any ideas why this might be happening?

I would have to think that this was due to yahoo adding new sites in above you that haven't been indexed by google yet. Yahoo usually adds all new sites in a relatively decent location for the first few weeks and then makes an adjustment to these sites.

This 45 message thread spans 2 pages: 45 ( [1] 2 > >
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