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jgbmarc, IMO, there is some evidence that Y has recently introduced some sandbox-like elements to their algo(s).
Also, IMO, the so-called sandbox over at G is not at all just about age of sites/backlinks. There are other algo elements that can make it hard for new sites to appear, that have nothing to do with age per se.
I would have to agree!
There does appear to be a Yahoo sandbox...am I'm now playin' in it!
My site has been listed in the top 3 for almost 5 years. In the last few days, the home page began to slip until <poof> I'm gone (again).
The site is listed in the yahoo Directory, but not in the web results. I have a link popularity of over 1850 in Yahoo (according to linkpopularity dot com) and over 355 pages slurped by Slurp.
I began sending inquiries to 'email@example.com' and 'firstname.lastname@example.org' to request a re-review and some feedback as to why I no longer appear, yet no reply, except the DID move my competition up higher, even though they violate my governement registered trademark, which I pointed out to Yahoo.
I've been out of it for a few months, so I was unaware of any changes in Yahoo after the previous April 1st 2005 update.
Is anyone else is seeing similar sandbox type penalties.
Is there any way to get out?
What got me in the box to begin with?
I checked their policies and I appear to be OK...
microlinx, the 'sandbox' term tends to refer to newer sites. It's a phenomenon that over at G kicked in around the spring of last year. New sites have since had a harder time showing up in G: Some never get 'sandboxed,' others that do eventually come out, and some never come out.
You will get as many opinions on sandboxing as there are webmasters. All I'm saying for now is that I see some minor evidence (that, as opposed to 'proof') that some new sites are either having a tougher time getting into the Y SERP's, or, they appear for a while and get dropped. I've just seen several example over the last week. And from friends, I'm aware of several sites that for whatever reason, just ain't seeing the light of day in a way reminiscent of G's sandboxing.
As for sandboxing being related to age of a site or backlinks, yes that seems to be a factor, but there are other factors that were implemented at the same time IMO, when G put it into effect. New sites at G seem to have a tougher time of it still, so age is a factor, but also, new sites can get past sandboxing, so other factors count too; factors that can mitigate the 'negativeness of being new'.
In the case of Y, my very early set of questions are along the lines of:
1) have they implemented some dampening factor for newer sites
2) have they made it harder for sites to show up in the SERP's if the sites appear to be 'extreme' in one of several ways (include both internal and external factors)?
FWIW. IMO this should be simply looked at as an evolution of Y's algo (not 'sandboxing'). Right now Y!'s algo is clearly evolving in some important ways. Been a while since I've seen a Yahoo! update thread [webmasterworld.com] be so active. ;-)
Yahoo doesn't need a sandbox, it takes them 6 months to a year just to index a new site.
> it takes them 6 months to a year just to index a new site
Sorry but that is so not true. You need more links, me thinks...or, there is some issue that is causing a problem WRT to how their algo sees your site(s).
>>>it takes them 6 months to a year just to index a new site
Not true. Sounds like might be a problem particular to the way you may be launching your sites, it's definitely not the usual experience. Take a look at any Google sandbox thread and you'll see people thanking there's a Yahoo to pick up their sites in the interim before breaking the G box.
Well, I don't want to get too far off topic, but that's been my experience with a wide variety of sites. When Yahoo gets around to indexing them, they preform very well, but it takes forever to index new sites and pages, I'm going to take a look at the other threads becuase I'd really like to be indexed faster, believe me.
All Search Engines are trying to verify that your site offers relevant content so that their users get accurate results.
I have found that all search engines take a while before they fully accept your web site. If you optimise your site to contain relevant keywords and if links to your site contain subject related descriptions you will eventually be accepted with all the major players. It's true that Google will index your site quickly and then it will disappear for a while, reappearing intermittently but inconsistantly for anywhere between a few months and two years! Once you are accepted by Google, new content that is added to your site tends to be indexed quickly as you have gained the robot's trust. Don't take the piss! Keep it genuine and Google will be your best friend.
Yahoo seems to take longer to first index your site, but will show it regularly within results faster than Google. Yahoo observes your meta tag keywords more than Google. Yahoo takes longer to accept new content to your web page.
Msn tries to bring you the best of both worlds and takes note of your keywords.
Here is the wisdom of someone who has been studying the search engines for a few years.
At the end of the day there are 2 things to be aware of. Firstly everyone using a search engine wants relevant results so the robots are programmed to question the validity of your site's content for a while until you have convinced them that you are not full of #*$!! Secondly, these big companies need to make money. So the probation period is a great time and opportunity for the search engines to encourage new sites to advertise with ppc listings.
If you can advertise or link with accepted sites your position and your acceptance within the search engine results can be accelerated. But whatever the current algorithiums, relevant content and varied descriptions albeit with a recurring key phrase are the answer for long term success.
The wisdom of my knowledge is 100% straight up and worth thousands of dollars. Take note of this reply and you won't go wrong!
Wishing you all the best!
I'm willing to accept the strategy behind the google sandbox if it's a case of take some time to check that a new site does offer good content, natural growth etc.
But whats the deal with yahoo where they index several hundred pages of our site internationally but zap us from our national search results - don't see any positive sandbox strategy there. If the pages are relevant to 'the world' then they are certainly relevant to the geographical area they were designed for.
A good bunch of inbound links can really help any site (new & old) in yahoo. I've also seen something that looks very similar to links becoming more valuable over time.
>>>it takes them 6 months to a year just to index a new site
I've noticed that there are sites that yahoo "likes" and ones that it "dislikes". I don't know why, but I saw some new sites, with clean html pages and lots of inbound links, getting indexed very slow.
By some reason Yahoo does like my new site, and "eats" all my dynamic pages (which Google ignores btw!) as a hungry beast! I have no idea why.
my site gets page 1 results in country based results like ca.yahoo.com and au.yahoo.com but i am getting those reults is search.yahoo.com is this mean my site is penelized