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Does Yahoo Have a Keyword Stuffing Penalty?
Here is my experience
Thinkprog




msg:844589
 12:47 pm on Jul 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

Help!
I have a website which was ranking really good for a very high competitive keyword (18 of over 5.000.000 results). As I wanted to improve my rankings I started adding some more content with repeating the main keywords a couple of times in the new content.
Now my site is not showing up (not at all) for my main keywords anymore. The funny thing is all the other sites are still ranking pretty good and even the index site which is not showing up for my main keyword shows up when I search for "mainkeyword centers" as the word centers is also in the title.
I wonder if there is a penalty for keyword stuffing or if it there is penalty for too many external links with same keyword text.
And what I should do know.. Just remove the new content or try to change external linktexts?
Thanks.

 

larryhatch




msg:844590
 9:01 pm on Jul 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hello Thinkprog: I just responded to this question but for Google and kw stuffing.
I just checked Yahoo. Same exact thing. Same exact site and page in the #1 spot in Y serps.
Its been this way for months if not years. I'm not about to try stuffing
but I would have expected at least algorithmic penalties for this sort of thing.
Y and G must have higher priorities. KW stuffing seems way low on their agenda. -Larry

Thinkprog




msg:844591
 1:42 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Any other opinions?
My site disappeared.. Keyword stuffing penalty?

martinibuster




msg:844592
 4:33 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>Any other opinions?

Yahoo loves keywords. Remember that the engine is based on Ink, which traditionally favored keywords. I don't believe there is a keyword stuffing penalty. Keywords are to Yahoo what bananas are to a monkey.

Yahoo loves keywords in the url, folder name, title tag, metas, in the navigation, bolded, etc. The idea of a keyword stuffing penalty flies against the reality that Yahoo loves keywords.

Brett_Tabke




msg:844593
 4:36 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

no penalty - I don't think so, because the majority of the algo has little to do with on-the-page criteria any more. The new engine is mostly link and authority/hub based.

martinibuster




msg:844594
 4:49 pm on Jul 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>mostly link and authority/hub based.

I like to spread my risk around, so I have many websites built in many styles in multiple industries, all with different backlinks. No matter which way the wind is blowing, several of my boats are going to keep sailing.

So based on what I am experiencing with my sites, Brett, I'm having a hard time believing Yahoo's signals of quality thing.

My most keyword laden sites with crappy backlinks do really well in Yahoo, outperforming industry leaders and true authority sites.

If they were looking for sites well linked from authority hubs (because they have quality content), with multiple dmoz and Yahoo listings and generous outbounds and daily updated pages, then my authority sites would be doing well in Yahoo. But that's not the case.

Google and MSN love my authority sites, Yahoo loves my shady keyword laden, poorly linked websites. In fact, one of the sites Yahoo adores is so shady Google banned it by hand. Go figure.

maswee




msg:844595
 5:21 am on Jul 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

me too agrees with brett. As nowa days it not that much to do with tags but what is worth considerable is links and anchor tags from authority sites.Rest is dependent on content on the web page.

caveman




msg:844596
 5:48 am on Jul 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thinkprog, another voice in agreement that Y! doesn't hand out penalties for such things, if 'penalty' is what you really mean.

However, I'm aware of several instances where sites, and especially site homepages, do not rank well in Y for the main two or three word phrase that the site is optimized against, even though the site's sub pages still rank for longer tail terms that include the core phrase. Sounds similar to what you've just stepped in. ;-)

Since you've recently made changes to your site it seems that the changes are a logical place to start looking.

Goog is much tougher on repetition of kw's in various places, but IMO, Y will knock out homepages or other pages for things they don't like. Y employs, IMO, some pretty nasty and at times over zealous dup filters.

Ways I believe I've seen pages get hurt on core site topic phrases include:
- too common backlink footprints with other sites from same owner on same topic (or another site that seems similar);
- heavy internal backlinking to homepage with core phrase that the site is targeting;
- templated pages that share too much in common with other site pages (e.g. insufficient original content on the new pages?, too-similar or identical META tag entries, certain kinds of templated pages),
- new pages that share commonly targeted kw's with other important pages AND contain signs of offering no added value (e.g., feeds of some types).

Y's algo is curious in that aspects of it seem somewhat forgiving, but in other respects, it can be easy to trip filters, especially related to duplication of all different kinds. It's one of the ways that, IMO, they are working hard to knock out no-value-added affiliate pages, though a given page (and it's associated backlinks) need not be an affiliate page to trip these filters.

As for general stuff, like Martinibuster, we still have some sites that appear to do quite well with not nearly the backlink help needed to do well in G. Not even close. That said, more recently, it seems that the right backlinks can really help you in Y!, and without the right backlinks, it can almost be hard to get listed at all. But this does not seem to be your issue, since you already had rankings.

Clint




msg:844597
 5:29 pm on Jul 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

- too common backlink footprints with other sites from same owner on same topic (or another site that seems similar);
- heavy internal backlinking to homepage with core phrase that the site is targeting;

That is senseless. I'm not saying what YOU are saying is senseless, I'm saying that if Y penalizes for that they are more screwed up than G. What the hell is wrong (and who does not do it) with having a link to your homepage on every page? That's how a site SHOULD be setup! If they penalize for that, and linking your sites to each other (how else can you tell visitors of your other sites), that's just plain pathetic.

caveman




msg:844598
 4:21 am on Jul 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

It is not senseless at all, regardless of who is saying it. These things almost certainly happen to varying degrees w/Goog, and I believe that they are likely to be happening with Y, based on some considerable analysis born of experience with our own sites.

Too common backlink footprints
Why would you think that too-common backlinks are senseless? It's often a sign that someone who owns or partners with networks of closely affiliated sites are pumping IBL's artificially. Any reasonable, semi thinking SE would look for such things.

Heavy internal backlinking to homepage with core phrase
What the hell is wrong (and who does not do it) with having a link to your homepage on every page? That's how a site SHOULD be setup!

Why do you take what I said and restate it so thoughtlessly? Of course many/most sites link back to the homepage on every page. I said heavy internal backlinking. Not normal linking. Heavy linking. Lots of sites that are trying to gain an advantage use more than one link back to the homepage, sometimes with repetition of the site's core phrase. Worked once. Doesn't work so well now. Probably never should have worked at all.

Please do us, or at least me, the favor of avoiding gross misrepresentation of other posters' comments.

Thinkprog




msg:844599
 9:20 am on Jul 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

Lets just see what happens: I will delete the "stuffing text" I added.
Of course I will let you know what Yahoo thinks about it in about 10 days..
If its not going to work I will just add more links with new and not "main target" keywords..

Thanks everybody..

of course more comments are still welcome ;-)

Clint




msg:844600
 1:14 pm on Jul 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

It is not senseless at all, regardless of who is saying it. These things almost certainly happen to varying degrees w/Goog, and I believe that they are likely to be happening with Y, based on some considerable analysis born of experience with our own sites.
Too common backlink footprints
Why would you think that too-common backlinks are senseless? It's often a sign that someone who owns or partners with networks of closely affiliated sites are pumping IBL's artificially. Any reasonable, semi thinking SE would look for such things.

Heavy internal backlinking to homepage with core phrase
What the hell is wrong (and who does not do it) with having a link to your homepage on every page? That's how a site SHOULD be setup!

Why do you take what I said and restate it so thoughtlessly? Of course many/most sites link back to the homepage on every page. I said heavy internal backlinking. Not normal linking. Heavy linking. Lots of sites that are trying to gain an advantage use more than one link back to the homepage, sometimes with repetition of the site's core phrase. Worked once. Doesn't work so well now. Probably never should have worked at all.

Please do us, or at least me, the favor of avoiding gross misrepresentation of other posters' comments.

I don't think I misinterpreted anything, I think you misinterpreted my meaning of "senseless". "Senseless" does not mean it's NOT happening! By "senseless" I meant ridiculous, should not be happening.

Now this of course depends on exactly what you mean by "too-common backlinks" and "Heavy internal backlinking". With the former; do you mean to say that each of my sites can't link to my other sites? I have 5 sites and each of them link to the other sites not more than twice. Is this considered "too-common backlinks"? If not, then "never mind". If SO, then I think this is senseless.

Regarding "Heavy internal backlinking", I have a "Home" button with text on each of my pages that goes back of course to my home page. Now that's more than one link back to the home page, but only 1 PER webpage. Is that considered "heavy internal backlinking"? Again, if not then never mind. If so, that is also senseless.

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