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Yahoo Search Engine and Directory Forum

    
Yahoo Mindset?
Nice Little Utility
digitalghost

WebmasterWorld Senior Member digitalghost us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 8:27 pm on May 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

A new twist on search that uses machine learning technology to give you a choice: View Yahoo! Search results sorted according to whether they are more commercial or more informational (i.e., from academic, non-commercial, or research-oriented sources).

I'm lovin' that little slider. Want to screen commercial words? Bingo. Done.

[mindset.research.yahoo.com...]

 

2oddSox

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 9:56 pm on May 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

One of my sites is an info site that has to compete for the same generic terms as all the big commercial fellas, and it's pretty tough going. Dragging that little slider all the way to the right is like the parting of the seas, with my site on the other shore.

Now that's a concept that I hope takes off.

garyr_h

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 7:27 pm on May 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Oh wow, I love this. The little bar displayed by the url is a nice touch as well.

Easy_Coder

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 12:14 am on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

That thingamajig is awesome... now we get to compete for top positions under 3 different contexts.

cabbie

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 8:50 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

fascinating.
For my main keyword in normal serps I am no#1 and am no#1 when the sliding bar is halfway on mindset.But I can't be found anywhere on either extremities.
Does this mean I need to make my site more one way or the other if mindset becomes default?

esllou

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 9:03 pm on May 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

my main site is number 5 for our main keyword on normal Y index.

becomes number 2 when slider is halfway across to the research extreme which I'm happy about.

decaff

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 10:48 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

Remember..though this is a way cool tool...Yahoo is tracking every use...and if you log into your Yahoo account and use it ... they will know exaclty who you are what "interests" you....

Yahoo will not expect the average user to see this...but they will expect webmasters and web marketers to find and use this extensively...use sparingly...

BillyS

WebmasterWorld Senior Member billys us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 1:35 am on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

I thought this was a way cool tool too. It give you insight into how the Yahoo algo works - or at least how the algo sees your site. Nice touch - bookmarked!

WallyWorld

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 12:44 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sure, it has some initial novelty but this is just another useless trick Yahoo is trying in order to get back some ground lost to Google and other SE's.

If one wants commercial results on say "shipping" one would logically type "shipping services", if one wants information on how to ship one would type something like "shipping proceedures".

If Yahoo would spend as much time making their results relevant and weeding out scrapper sites their time would be much better spent rather than making some commercial/noncommercial slider. How rediculous!

Personally, I don't think Yahoo can overcome their ego and get the SE game right after so many years as the top dog and now having been kicked badly by Google. They need to drop the ego and think more about how to benefit the user and much much less about how Yahoo is going to squeeze a dime out of online merchants.

EBear

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 2:00 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Cool. I like the way it will fetch and rate all pages on the fly. It uses socks1.corp.yahoo.com.

Now if only we could get the Google engineers to give us one of these, with 100+ sliders ;)

garyr_h

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 3:56 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

If one wants commercial results on say "shipping" one would logically type "shipping services", if one wants information on how to ship one would type something like "shipping proceedures".

Not everything is that simple. Let's say you are a student researching a well known book on widgets. What would the average user type in? 'book on widgets' is my guess. So both results of sites selling the book and information on the book would show up.

The same goes for other information sources. If you are researching a widget would you want to buy the widget or learn of certain information regarding it? The average user is lazy and don't know what to expect from search engines. They think that once they type something in it should show up #1 in the results on exactly what they want. With a tool like this, the user won't have to go through pages and pages of results searching for just one listing of information or shopping material.

This is very useful for those 'lazy' users. Which is probably a pretty large majority.

egomaniac

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 6:30 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

What's cool about this from a user-perspective is that you can effectively re-run or refine your search without having to change any words and hit the search button again.

We all like to get what we are looking for the first 10 results whenever possible. Changing the slider gives the ability to refine the results without having to think (i.e. not having to think of additional words to refine the search).

Not having to think is important because everyone is too busy.

soapystar

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 7:39 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

this is nothing a new and of course its the future. Theres no reason why any number of parts of the algo cant be presented as sliders or combination of sliders for any search engine, inclduing a seperate function for filters seperated from the relevance part of the algo. Im sure one day users will be able basically create their own algo which they can save and use as default. There will be whole comunties discussing how THIER default algo is the best.

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 10:59 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Another good example of why personalized search is years away. Sites pretending to be what they are not easily fool the slider. Making a half dozen pieces of junk that were the same content but slighly different in presentation would easily get you ranked across the spectrum.

Someday stuff like this will work, but it sure ain't today. (Orange bar is further to the right for Yahoo directory categories than dmoz directory categories, which is more than a little odd.)

pleeker

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 11:17 pm on May 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

It obviously needs some work, but I suppose that's why in the labs, right?

The first site I use when researching digital cameras comes up in the top 10 when the slider is in the middle. It's a site that's great for research, but also has a lot of affiliate links to help support the webmaster. So when you move the slider too far in either direction, the site disappears. It's not pure research, nor is it pure commerce.

That's a flaw.

soapystar

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 7:55 am on Jun 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

So when you move the slider too far in either direction, the site disappears. It's not pure research, nor is it pure commerce

this is why true personalisation is the only way to go. Having a couple of sliders available for tinkering is almost a waste of time. Only by handing over near-enough-true-control of the algo will you start to get the results that suits your own taste and searches. Without control over both the algo and the filters optimisation will carry on as Steveb describes it and nobody will truly get a customised personalised search function. It will always be true that one mans junk is another mans collectible. Once you start making tens and 100' of personaliation factors available to the user you start to get way to many permuations of the results for it to be practicable a make site for each configuaration. Seo's will be left targetting for the default setting. (which will probably be at least half the users i would imagine)

inbound

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 11:36 pm on Jun 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Very interesting but not very clever.

One of my clients has a site that couldn't possibly be more research based (it documents the combined work of 3,000 researchers!), it's all they do. Guess what their information/commercial rating is - about 60% research!

I can't imagine how many research based pages are on the site, it documents research departments, universities, researchers, research papers etc...

Don't take the results too seriously as I can't see them being used.

pleeker

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 11:45 pm on Jun 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

soapystar, I'm with you guys on the problem here. If we've only recently reached the point where Joe Searcher is able to expand his query to 3 words, it'll be a heckuva lot longer before he's ready to start playing with sliders, or do whatever else it takes to get so-called personalized results.

I tend to think the kind of search history that A9, Google, and Yahoo are saving are more likely candidates to be used for personalization down the road. This guy is using Safari, and based on past searching and clicking, we can safely assume he means Apple computers, not fruit..., etc.

soapystar

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 7:38 am on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Pleeker

Yes, agree that type of AI personalisation will be more likely to give decent results in the near future. What i wonder about though is the paranoia sweeping the internet over saved information of any kind. Whether large numbers of users will really want all their past surfing habits recorded leaves me sceptical. I believe thers more likely to be a takeup of personalised algos which will not require any saved personal information.

On a side note of research v commercial. On travel queries with research turned up i get yahoo travel pages.

pleeker

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3398 posted 10:09 pm on Jun 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Whether large numbers of users will really want all their past surfing habits recorded leaves me sceptical. I believe thers more likely to be a takeup of personalised algos which will not require any saved personal information.

Fair enough, but ... haven't a LOT of people already become familiar with Amazon saving every piece of personal information it can? We don't see people avoiding Amazon because their surfing and shopping is recorded step-by-step there, so I'd say the idea of Google and others saving search data isn't that far off the beaten track.

On a side note of research v commercial. On travel queries with research turned up i get yahoo travel pages.

Raise your hand if you're surprised. :)

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