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Yahoo Search Engine and Directory Forum

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Yahoo Update!
Dramatic SERP changes and Backlink Changes Visible
seoArt

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 12:23 am on Dec 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm seeing SERP changes for all of my keywords. All went up a bit, and more backlinks are now showing. Looks good so far...

 

outland88

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 9:45 pm on Dec 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

That's one I would definitely debate with you DVD. Many people who ignored Inktomi for years are now learning that the title tag is one of the more important things in Yahoo. You can't fool Google that well with just a meta tag and a few lines of text. I don't see that same type of repetition in Google. You’ll have to point me to a category in Yahoo where long titles rank high outside of phrases.

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 10:07 pm on Dec 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

"Not ranking well in the "new 'hoo" steveb?"

Actually I rank great on Yahoo. I wouldn't trade my Yahoo rankings with anyone. You guys just crack me up. Why do you assume everyone is as self-absorbed as you? Nobody here cares how you rank, so don't waste time telling us you like the serps because you rank well. Some folks actually post based on good and bad things in the serps, and trying to understand them, not their rankings.

It is bottom ten most pathetic seo tactic to post that the serps look great to try and persuade Yahoo that having straight redirects is good. (The funniest thread of all time was the looney posts about how great the first MSN alpha results were, like MSN would keep that mess because some spammer networks though the serps "looked great".)

"steveb, I think the redirect issue you're seeing is a side affect of yahoo finally having fixed their 301 problem, this might be a bug in their system, which appears to have just changed."

I agree. The positive change of fixing an unfortunate problem is a good thing, but at the same time the serps being over run with straight redirects is an apparent unfortunate side effect. The trash peddlars love it of course, but I'm confident Yahoo will clean up the mess soon enough and then these guys will be back to the usual crying.

Yahoo has been improving steadily, and the junk peddlars may have a temporary reason to smile, but it won't last.

Artstart

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 10:11 pm on Dec 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

steveb:

Well put. It's refreshing to read not selfcentered posts from time to time ;)

kevinpate

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 10:34 pm on Dec 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

> If it’s a vanity or hobby site why worry or
> step in the way of people trying to make a
> living.

rubbish, pure rubbish. If an ecom site doesn't surpass the vanity or hobby or information site, that's neither the fault, nor the concern, of the
non-ecom site(s).

Though it is likely still shocking to some, a group of barons dinna slam down tankards of ale one night and proclaim 'by all that's holy, we simply have to assure future generations can buy candies, cars and undies via the airwaves while sitting around in their own jammies at home dodging reruns.' :)

xcomm

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 10:43 pm on Dec 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

Agree on spammers complaining. All the search engines are having trouble with spammers, until they start doing human spam filtering they always will. First engine to realize this and implement a simple solution will probably win that game.

Right - but I would more think about something like the ratings on amazon ... simply a small button in the SERP the user can click to vote for a site.

My experience is searching mostly the 1-2 pages and open some results in tabs getting some crap and also what I was looking for.

I would like to make some rating click sometimes for the tops results here.

xcomm

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 10:51 pm on Dec 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

You can't fool Google that well with just a meta tag and a few lines of text. I don't see that same type of repetition in Google.

I think Google has gone that far in fighting spam that their results are gettings worser with every update. (Also their link rating was once a good idea now has turned against them due SEO.)

Yahoo is quite better with results now do they haven't overscrewed their system till now. (It can not be wrong to rate good for text and header text and url text ... this is simply how the web is intended.)

Yahoo yet looks to me like Google before 2 years before getting worse.

(To really get it much better you may need some human component in - like some rating buttons in the SERP.)

outland88

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 10:51 pm on Dec 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

If its a vanity site why even worry about rankings, SEO, or even reading about SEO. My philosophy has always been not to step in the way of somebody trying to make a living. Obviously many don't feel that same way. Their own vanity is more important. That's life.

dvduval

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 10:52 pm on Dec 19, 2004 (gmt 0)


That's one I would definitely debate with you DVD. Many people who ignored Inktomi for years are now learning that the title tag is one of the more important things in Yahoo. You can't fool Google that well with just a meta tag and a few lines of text. I don't see that same type of repetition in Google. You’ll have to point me to a category in Yahoo where long titles rank high outside of phrases.

As I said, in my areas of specialization I am not seeing this, but I am seeing it in Google. For example, looking at the top 100 results for several different money keyword queries in Yahoo, there is very little repetition on page titles in the SERPS. But in the case of Google, there is much more repetition of title. For lower $$ keywords, I see a little more use of spammy titles, but I see the same thing on Google. Overall, I think Yahoo is doing a much better job.

In addition, Google has a problem with spammed anchor text that is far worse than Yahoo.;)

outland88

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 11:20 pm on Dec 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think one thing people have to remember is Yahoo has only had these current results for a few days. For the past 9 months most people have been complaining about the exclusionary policies of Yahoo. To start proclaiming Yahoo knows what they’re doing is a pretty big stretch on anybody’s part at this point. Especially at the rate they drop pages.

DVD it has gotten better in the past few days of Yahoo but I certainly wouldn't give it the rubber stamp prior to that. For research to trigger my research I always liked Google and ATW in the past. Google is really beginning to frustrate me on buying things though and Froogle doesn't help. I'm having to go through info sites to buy things and pretty soon I loose track of the main search. I'm turning more to Ask to purchase things.

dvduval

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 11:35 pm on Dec 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

DVD it has gotten better in the past few days of Yahoo but I certainly wouldn't give it the rubber stamp prior to that.

I can agree with you on that for sure. I think Yahoo has gotten steadily getter over last couple of months. I heard people last month talking about how they were using The Yahoo toolbar instead of Google, but I didn't even consider it. I finally started using the Yahoo toolbar (and Google too), and have been pleasantly surprised. :)

outland88

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 12:29 am on Dec 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

DVD not to get to far off topic. I occasionally use the toolbars to check Page Rank at Google. To me it plays too much into their hands for marketing purposes and tracking to add them permanently. It gives them too much a temptation to tweak for revenue. Once the tweak is done the logic is someone benefits and someone doesn’t. Based upon that some would argue good quality and some not. And as you see quality is being debated throughout this thread. There’s no definitive answer to that but there is for where the money goes.

xcomm

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 6:30 am on Dec 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

To me it plays too much into their hands for marketing purposes and tracking to add them permanently.

Yeap.

I installed it for checking in M$IE as I use Firefox 99.9%. :-)

I was really going sad due I had to login with a Yahoo account to change tootlbar settings. Thats more against my privacy than the Google bar is. And also the Google bar I skipped as I only use the Firefox Pagerank extension therefor...

fiu88

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 8:54 am on Dec 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yahoo update has put us at the top for most specific product searches! Finally, some recognition for the specialty retailer....We are absolutley nowhere in Google , but no 1, 2, multiple page 1 listings with yahoo....

Yahoo seems less prone to seo trickery......It has become my defacto search engine of choice....

RFranzen

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 3:52 pm on Dec 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

If its a vanity site why even worry about rankings, SEO, or even reading about SEO. My philosophy has always been not to step in the way of somebody trying to make a living. Obviously many don't feel that same way. Their own vanity is more important. That's life.

outland88, not sure if I should be insulted, agree with you, or just laugh. It depends on how you define a "vanity site". If the definition is restricted to personal pages with wedding photos, baby pictures, and/or why the author doesn't like a high school teacher -- well, I'll agree. It's a vanity site, and it is unlikely searchers (other than family and friends who know specifics to look for) will have much interest.

OTOH, if you mean non-commercial sites offering unique information of interest to significant numbers of people, I strongly disagree. (I vainly kinda have to, because I'm author to several such sites. ;) ) There are a large number of very informative, and even "fun", educational sites, historical sites, hobby sites, etc., that might well be considered authorities. IMO the majority of searchers would be more interested in finding unique, informative gems than dozens of cookie-cutter [Buy Now!] sites.

-- Rich

StupidScript

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 6:47 pm on Dec 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hmm ...

Testing five of our domains at Market Leap, as I do nearly every week, I see a significant, and disturbing result this morning.

Two weeks ago, site A (our primary domain) had more than 2000 pages in the Y index. Today ... none in the index and only showing one directory listing.

Two weeks ago, sites B-F (some of our secondary domains) had no pages in the Y index. Today ... they vary from 350 pages to over 2500.

It looks like they replaced one index with another.

Doesn't make any sense to me, as the primary domain has traditionally done very well in the SERPs, so well that it is used as a benchmark in our industry by several SEO stat companies.

Now it's gone from Y, but still huge in G. Oh well. I'll wait until they come to their senses, I guess. No use trying to optimize every time they flop around ...

randle

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 6:59 pm on Dec 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yahoo seems less prone to seo trickery

I have to respectfully disagree with this. I like Yahoo, we do fairly well in it and it is VERY refreshing to be able to work on sites that are not hopelessly stuck in the sandbox and see them move up.

However, the cloakers, redirectors, and link farm specialists are having an absolute field day in Yahoo right now.

outland88

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 7:40 pm on Dec 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

>However, the cloakers, redirectors, and link farm specialists are having an absolute field day in Yahoo right now.

Gotta agree with that. All people are seeing is basically the old Hotbot from Inktomi transferred to Yahoo. You could claim it was the easiest to optimize for but it just crawled everything under the Sun. Subdomains always did well in Hotbot but it often kicked out webmasters main sites. Typically they had two minor updates a year and a major one. A typical page, except for the index page, lasted about 2 months in their engine. The only way pages would stick was with PFI. People compensated by flooding the engine with all mentioned by randle.

Amazingly Hotbot was a top engine for a few years in the 90’s but spammers found it the easiest to work.

cleanup

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 8:43 pm on Dec 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have a competitor, very successful (almost as successfull as me)and very professional.

They have the .com/.net/.org/and .co.uk versions of their web, thats fine why not. I do too.

They have essentially the same web site copied but a little different on each host.

All the versions come up on the Yahoo! SERPS in the first ten.

This has been noticeable for a year now. I have pointed out to Yahoo! directly and via some of their partner channels.

Nothing.

After the latest update. My own site (and I mean site singular) is beating the competition in all number of ways so I am happy about that. But the fact that I still see the same four versions of the same competitor site in the SERPS means that I really cannot agree that Yahoo! is providing serious results.
These are basic errors. I mean really basic duplicate site stuff that Google sorted out years ago.

Yahoo! a contender to Google/MSN? Can't be. No way. Never.

Oh by the way, Happy Christmas Y! you made mine with the new update (apart from the dupes that is).

dvduval

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 3:19 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

They have the .com/.net/.org/and .co.uk versions of their web, thats fine why not. I do too.

They have essentially the same web site copied but a little different on each host.

All the versions come up on the Yahoo! SERPS in the first ten.

I'm seeing the same thing on Google, and the sites have been there for over 1 year.

One good thing about Yahoo is the problem with spammed anchor text is not as bad as Google (but still present).

jgold454

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 7:10 pm on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

I had 2 different associates, in the past 2 days, who aren't tech savvy at all tell me something interesting. They were both looking for a specific piece of information, couldn't find it in google..Tried Yahoo and it was the first result.....

cleanup

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 9:18 pm on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

So Jgold.
What, prey, was the piece of information that produced this gem of objective SE analysis?..

twebdonny



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 9:27 pm on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yes Here is the Big Update, travel.yahoo.com now takes top billing on every travel based search...

What a freakin joke

soapystar

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 10:21 pm on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

What a freakin joke

couldnt disagree with you more! its no joke! :-)

its in line with their original stated goal of being the one site that redirects to other sites for a commission. Otherwise known as affiliates. Thast what they said in the interview as they went live, they dont want their index full of sites that redirect to other sites because they can do that themsleves. After all thats the whole point of them having their own serps. If it makes money today you can bet some day down the road it will be their own links up top.

we'd rather put them directly in the store ourselves, than send them to someone else who's simply telling them how to get to the store.

helenp

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 10:41 am on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think yahoo has problem again,
just saw my site that had penalty lifted in july seemed to hit another penalty....lol, I havn´t changed anything, searched for my exact title, and found it for another domain, that don´t even have that title on their site...
error in yahoos index, it´s only seems to affect my homepage.

helenp

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 12:46 pm on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

lol,
just went in after some hours,
and now both my and the other appears with my exact title...

kinchev

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 12:41 am on Dec 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi

Guys , how to know if my site is banned by Yahoo?
For me the update is a disaster. All my sites are completely knocked out, while the results are rediculous with most spammy sites on top.

helenp

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 8:45 am on Dec 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

I done some investigating,
the page indexed with my exact title,
actually has that page with my title, but it is redirected to their homepage,....
so it seems to be an redirection problem by Yahoo,
but what should I do with that website?
That is illegal isn´t it?

surfgatinho

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 10:43 am on Dec 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yes Here is the Big Update, travel.yahoo.com now takes top billing on every travel based search

I'm still doing OK on plenty of hotel sites (bar the UK)

gemini

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 4:22 pm on Dec 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

make a search on yahoo for:
Blue Widgets

7 out of 10 results on the first page are the same pages with the same titles from the same template based company web sites. I don't find anything attractive in this Y! update - will the consumer..?

Does anyone see similar pattern?

[edited by: martinibuster at 4:39 pm (utc) on Dec. 28, 2004]
[edit reason] Widgetized. Please don't talk about specific websites. Thanks. [/edit]

soapystar

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3009 posted 9:48 pm on Dec 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yhaoo launched with the idealistic vision of only having Yhaoo approved sites in their index and yet still call it a free inclusion open serps...they attempted their vision by systematically banning totally from their index sites that did not meet their own vision of what they want. This has led to a flood of "made-for-yahoo" spam. Spam that is only to be found in Yahoo since all the banned seo'd sites went out and replicated their sites many times over making sure nobody but yahoo could/should spider them. With Google they tend to perservere with the sites in the hope that they can hit the sweet spot and get included again into the top of the serps. With Yahaoo this was never an option. When youre banned your banned for life. And their you have it. I think its called an own goal.

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