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This 134 message thread spans 5 pages: 134 ( [1] 2 3 4 5 > >     
The Real Deal with Yahoo
agerhart

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 2:54 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

After ridiculous threads like this one [webmasterworld.com], calling for boycotts, and all of the bad talk regarding Yahoo, I feel the need to clear things up and bring everyone back to reality.

The reality of our current situation with Yahoo, SiteMatch, Google, etc., is:

Yahoo! is definitely still crawling sites for free. If you can't get your site indexed by Yahoo right now, then you need to get into another business. I have spoken with a few other SEOs, and we all agreed that Yahoo is currently indexing new pages and sites faster than Google is. As I said, if you can't get your pages indexed.....then get in the line to the left.

There is nothing wrong with a PFI/PPC model, as long as there is another option for purely informational sites or people who can't afford to pay. As I just mentioned above, there is. Enough said.

The current Yahoo! SERPs look better than Google's do. I'm speaking from a consumer and SEO point of view.

 

salmo

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 2:56 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I second that and am having difficulty in figuring out exactly what it is that the complainers are unhappy with. I think that the new Yahoo index is great.

Chndru

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:03 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

complainers are unhappy with

You can NOT attract nor retain searchers, if you produce great results for "cruises in lavaland" and junk for "electrolytic principle of airways" or "save a dog from choking" or "fix my 000-999 weirdo computer hang-up". Yahoo searches may look great to you and me, but for real public, it's a bloated shopping cart.

Enough of bashing, but, i agree with agerhart on the isssues brought up.

logiclamp



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:04 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

You're a sitting duck.

Why do you think the Google founders reacted so strongly to this?

They fully recognize (unlike you) what Yahoo is doing.

msgraph

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:07 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>I second that and am having difficulty in figuring out exactly what it is that the complainers are unhappy with

And I'll third that. I mean they just released the program! Ink has been doing pfi for a few years and that didn't stop me and others from getting sites to the top for free. I think a lot of people need to relax and wait before crying foul.

Yahoo has tossed a TON of money and research into developing a new search system to compete with Google. I don't think they are going to just toss that all away for a pfi based model that just ranks sites for paying cash.

agerhart

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:09 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Why do you think the Google founders reacted so strongly to this?

Oh my....you're saying that one competitor reacted to strongly to a move made by another competitor. Well, I've never heard of such a thing.

logiclamp



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:12 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Are you kidding? Try reading the Google guy. Google has never cried foul regarding Yahoo before.

In fact, when they got dumped they didn't say a thing. Page and Brin aren't idiots, they don't just say these things for the press.

Unless you have some examples where they have bad mouthed the competition needlessly, I would go on the assumption that they are being very sincere.

creative craig

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:12 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I am still unclear by what logiclamp means?

As agerhart said they are still offering free inclusion and at a fast rate (no research done for this myself) then I can not see where the problem is!

Craig

agerhart

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:16 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

In fact, when they got dumped they didn't say a thing. Page and Brin aren't idiots, they don't just say these things for the press.

Unless you have some examples where they have bad mouthed the competition needlessly, I would go on the assumption that they are being very sincere.

Dude, are you drunk? I never said that they ever bad mouthed the competition. Although, I do have one example from the Supporters Forum where Google made some sly, negative comments about the new PFI program that Yahoo rolled out.

They fully recognize (unlike you) what Yahoo is doing.

The only one here that seems to be having trouble grasping this concept is you. The PFI is just an option. Sites are still getting in for free.

logiclamp



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:17 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Read that link on Site Match and tell me where it says Yahoo is going to necessarily continue to crawl for free:

[content.overture.com...]

"
Summary of Site Match Benefits:

More exposure for your site - reach more than 75% of active internet users*
"

How is this a benefit if "yahoo is crawling for free". It may be free for now, but it is so obvious to anyone what direction that they are headed in.

[edited by: logiclamp at 3:20 pm (utc) on Mar. 2, 2004]

agerhart

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:19 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

All you're doing is speculating. You have no idea what their intent is.

The reality of the current situation is that their is a PFI way and free way into the index.

If they dump the free entry into the index, I will be right with you in your argument.

logiclamp



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:20 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Go to the link. It outlines extremely clearly what their intent is!

logiclamp



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:23 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Should I use Site Match if I also use Pay-for-Performance Search?

Yes. Using both Site Match and Pay-for-Performance Search will maximize your coverage on the search results page, enabling you to receive additional targeted customer leads. And because both Site Match and Pay-for-Performance Search are billed to you on a cost-per-click basis, you pay only when a potential customer visits your Web site.

Come on! If that isn't obvious, I do not know what is.

penfold25

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:25 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

well let me put in my two cents
so you are telling me yahoo is going to make
all the
universities around the world
libraries around the world
government departments around the world
charities

all pay for inclusion, i do not think so, yahoo will 100% crawl these sites for free. As well as the rest of the web, we may not know which part, but they will crawl for sure.

logiclamp



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:29 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

They have already said they will give charities free PFI. They WILL NOT crawl them for free, they will be given FREE PFI accounts.

Isn't it super obvious what is going on here?

The small, independent content guy is getting pushed out. He's not a charity and he's not selling something that he can go PPC for.

skippy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:35 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I am kind of curious how they plan to go around the FCC and mixing ads in search results. Lets say I use Site Match and I am number 30 (just because I paid the results are not influenced) will the Site Match results in the SERPS be listed as a sponsored site?

logiclamp



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:41 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

They could say these are site match results and people will just learn to ignore the verbage.

steve40

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:41 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

its silly to say boycott one of the top 3 search engines we must learn and adapt , but i suspect they will crawl heavily for free for only a XX period and then we will see what happens
take the following possible scenario

major free crawl for first 6 months to buld dbase
then major free crawl only every 3 months

so free sites no new pages in or refresh for 3 months
pfi then has advantages re tuning and 48 hr refresh

PFI pages would gain
if they went this way serps would just be 3 months staler
My concern is the following like many informational sites only 5% of pages possibly earn income so 95% don't I will not go PFI route unless i knew that pages that were not PFI would be included
My experience with INK leads me to these concerns
maybe TIM could clarify that some of the problems we saw with INK PFI will not occur

Like many webmasters I realise the free lunch of only free traffic is over but I for one do not wish to be shafted because I tried something in PFI and find what is in theory viable combined with free traffic
makes the rest of my site go MIA
and untill I can see this will not happen I will stay clear
steve

logiclamp



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:44 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Word of mouth is a powerful thing. If everyone recognizes what is going on and uses the opportunity to educate people they know that Google is the engine to use then yahoo will eventually reverse course.

trillianjedi

WebmasterWorld Senior Member trillianjedi us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:48 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Word of mouth is a powerful thing. If everyone recognizes what is going on and uses the opportunity to educate people they know that Google is the engine to use then yahoo will eventually reverse course.

But I don't think anyone here actually agrees with you?

Let's wait till the fat lady is singing.

TJ

logiclamp



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:52 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Do me a favor, go to this link

[content.overture.com...]

Read over everything, and then come back and post that you think Yahoo is all about crawling for free.

salmo

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:54 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Logiclamp, maybe you are having problems getting a site or sites indexed, if so it's understandable that you would be bitter. I'm not looking for obscure search terms like "cruises in lavaland" or "save a dog from choking" and have great rankings on Yahoo and Google.

To me life is great, to have a serious competitor to the big G is good for me, it's good for my clients and it's good for the Internet.

logiclamp



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:56 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

No dude, I am all PPC all the time. I just happen to believe that the great thing about the internet is that it is democratic, and this ruins the end to end democracy.

trillianjedi

WebmasterWorld Senior Member trillianjedi us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:56 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yes, I've read it - usual marketing spiel.

I think in all liklihood Yahoo will continue to crawl for free.

It will probably take longer to get listed. But then if you run a non-commercial site, who cares?

TJ

msgraph

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 3:59 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>Do me a favor, go to this link

Only if you do me a favor and go to this link as well

[help.yahoo.com...]

skippy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 4:00 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

My guess is it will end up being like paying to get into the Yahoo directory. A small benefit but in the end no major influence in the Serps.

logiclamp



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 4:01 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

It will take longer and longer to get listed. They will become serious second class citizens.

Content funded websites will be no longer. Affiliate programs and AdSense will disappear or at the very least, have to downsize significantly.

agerhart

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 4:05 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

It will take shorter and shorter to get listed. Listings will be instantaneous.

See? Your words above mean absoutely nothing, just like my words above.

Unless you work for Yahoo?

pmac

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 4:07 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Search is huge. If I had an engine, I would try and monetize the results. What is Y! supposed to do, roll sailors and hold bake sales?

I'm in the same boat as a bunch of the supporters, lets give them the benefit of the doubt. My bet is that we will see the program evolve to more categories, .5c and .30c is to narrow.

logiclamp



 
Msg#: 1812 posted 4:11 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Of course they want to monetize the results. And you got all these guys with there heads in the sand saying "Oh no, it will always be free".

What? Is Yahoo a communist company now?

Fortunately, we have this thing called competition and if we encourage traffic away and disatisfaction with a PFI approach then Yahoo will resist the temptation to grab more and more from the web community.

Serious sticking our heads in the sand around here.

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