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Yahoo Search Engine and Directory Forum

This 423 message thread spans 15 pages: < < 423 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 > >     
Yahoo Inclusion Program
Trying to clear up some misunderstanding in this forum
Tim

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 10:02 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

The primary means of generating our index is via our free crawl, using our new Yahoo! Slurp crawler. Yahoo! Slurp discovers pages by following links on the web. We update our index with a daily crawl to gather newly created and fast-changing URLs, as well as our main crawl which updates our index incrementally twice per week.

We supplement this free crawl with the paid inclusion program, which allows us to add dynamic database content and other content that we could not otherwise discover and crawl. Currently less than 1% of our index is content that is included via our inclusion programs.

Our paid inclusion programs provide a superior way for sites to interact with us in a clearly structured fashion. These sites get the following
benefits:
1) Control over which URLs they include in the index (subject to content
guidelines)
2) Frequent refresh
3) Clearly defined way to interact with us (for example: clear feed
specifications)
4) Quality review and consultation (for feed customers)
5) Detailed reporting to track and optimize performance
6) Customer service

Participation in Yahoo!'s paid inclusion program does not guarantee rank in the search results. URLs are ranked in search results in the same way as all other URLs from the free crawl. The key drivers of ranking are keyword-specific relevance and site quality, as assessed by our regular search relevance algorithms with input from the quality review process.

(Note that Inktomi Index Connect clients are receiving Yahoo! Search traffic going forward, and Inktomi Search Submit customers are receiving a free trial of Yahoo! traffic until 4/15/04.)

We will also be launching free URL submission during the week of 3/1. This service allows content providers to suggest that the crawler should visit a site during the main crawl cycle. This service is different than paid inclusion in two ways:

1) There is no guarantee that we will crawl and include the URL in the index.
2) As this site potentially could be added to the main crawl, Yahoo! Slurp will follow links from that URL.

This service will reside on the Yahoo.com site and be accessible via a Yahoo! login. This service has been available for the AltaVista and Alltheweb Indices previously and the tradition will continue with Yahoo! Search.

 

herewego

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 10:14 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Sorry if this is a dumb question but now I'll be paying $49 per url p.a. plus 0.15 per click to appear in the search results, what additional advantage is there to also paying $299 to be included in the directory?
Am I missing something (apart from $299)?

tigger

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tigger us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 10:26 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I thought the directory $299 listing had stopped

aly4848

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 10:42 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>ARE WE still waiting for Yahoo's new SE to be revealed or is it already running?<<

In the UK they have not even dropped Google yet!
I would be interested to know if this the same in other Yahoo regions?

TIM
Is Yahoo keeping Google in the UK and other regions or will there be a swap to Yahoo/INK?

Chris_D

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 10:58 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I can't believe that Yahoo! are serious.

As Feeder said - the 'new Yahoo!' has based its business model on Looksmart! Now that's a business model - look where it got them!

Now I'm curious - how will Yahoo! distinguish between the rankings for:
- the 'Overture' PPC included pages;
- the "Yahoo! PFI/Hybrid PPC pages; and
- the 'agressively free spidered sites'?

It looks like the new Yahoo! results are going to look just like the 'old MSN' results - you know - Looksmart PPC, followed by Looksmart directory ... and finally on page 7 - the algorithmic Inktomi results?

It really is Inkalloveryahooters.com in yahoo! land, isn't it!

I'm speechless. Yahoo! - so much potential - but instead planning to implement the Looksmart business model....

tigger

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tigger us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 11:12 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

aly4848

I've asked this question so many times with no response, good luck!

biggles

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 11:31 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Tigger - the 'opportunity' to part with $299 for a directory listing still applies...

MarketLeap have just sent out an email giving a full run down on Overture Site Match and Site Match Xchange which they're re-sellers for. I checked their website and lots of info there too. PositionTech, who I normally use, have login to their site unavailable due to "maintenance" (they don't seem to have got their act together on this - I see they bailed last minute from the Pub Conf due to it). Then maybe they thought no one in their right mind would buy into it...

The post by NoCarrier (Message 162) is making more and more sense

Why would I want to pay for an inclusion program when I could use the content match and be displayed first?

I don't get it..

Why pay 49$ then 0,15 cents per click when you could just use the old overture system and avoid the review fee.


tigger

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tigger us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 11:34 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Oh thanks bigs I thought it had stopped

aly4848

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 11:35 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

>> aly4848 I've asked this question so many times with no response, good luck! <<

Tigger
It's just that I can't see how I can pay to have my sites included if they are going to continue to use Google.
Yahoo are trying to market/sell things to me and other UK customers that they don't seem to have in stock (if you get my drift!)

sem4u

WebmasterWorld Senior Member sem4u us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 11:39 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Regional Yahoo's are going to make the changeover. It's just a question of how long it will take. I would make sure that your URLs are included (PFI or not) in the index for Yahoo.com because in the UK at least plenty of people still go searching there.

Tropical Island

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tropical_island us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 12:23 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Overture has now posted an explantion of site match at:
[content.overture.com...]

Sorry if this has been posted already.

textex

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 12:34 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Overture does not explain it either.

Are the new PFI results going to be listed over free crawl, like old MSN and looksmart?

or

Are PFI results going to be mixed in with free results like current INK with the advantage of submitting to PFI being inclusion into ATW and AV with 48 hour refreshes?

trell

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 12:44 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

The Site Match program replaces Inktomi and includes Yahoo Search. In the future will also incorporate AV and FAST. Results will be blended Inktomi style in the crawled SERPs, with a 48 hour refresh.

Tim

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 1:05 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

We have rolled out several International markets over the past week. The roll out of the Yahoo Search Technology will continue to take place over the comings weeks.

Business Express is still available. This is not a guarantee of inclusion but we plan to spider these sites assuming they are of high quality and abide by the content policy.

mikeD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 1:08 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>if there are good links to the site, you will be in the index<<<
Than who in their right mind would pay for it?

Exactly, why pay? unless you get a better listing. Yahoo says this isn't true, do anyone believe them?

aly4848

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 1:11 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>if there are good links to the site, you will be in the indexThan who in their right mind would pay for it? <<<

1)Anyone who wants 48 hour spidering
2)Commercial sites (the way I read it you pay or don't get into Yahoo)

Tim

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 1:14 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

No you can get commercial content into the index without paying.

aly4848

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 1:35 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

>> No you can get commercial content into the index without paying. <<

Thanks for clearing that up Tim, I though I read somewhere you had to pay for commercial sites.

So, the main benefit will be the fast spidering?
eg: Same as with the old INK program but with the downside (from a customer point of view) of an additional charge everytime someone clicks through?

herewego

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 1:36 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

<I thought the directory $299 listing had stopped >

They just debited my renewal 7 days ago.

Doh!

textex

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 1:46 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Tim,
How about a summary of what is taking place and how it will effect current results.

1) Will current SERPS change with new PFI? More specifically, if I have a site that rankswell now, do I need to worry about submitting and/or if my position is going to drastically change?
2) Where exactly are PFI sites going to be placed in SERPS? Mixed in? Above free sites?
3) Where and when will be able to submit to the PFI for free? (This was mentioned, right?

Thanks!

mikeD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 1:47 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>if there are good links to the site, you will be in the indexThan who in their right mind would pay for it? <<<
1)Anyone who wants 48 hour spidering
2)Commercial sites (the way I read it you pay or don't get into Yahoo)

Thanks for clearing that up, just a little confused. Can see the benefit now.

[edited by: mikeD at 1:48 pm (utc) on Mar. 2, 2004]

TravelMan

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 1:47 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Tim, is a pre existing listing in the Y directory that has paid, and is commercial, likely to be spidered and/or included in the new serps?

DroffatsX3

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 1:54 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

This is not a guarantee of inclusion but we plan to spider these sites assuming they are of high quality and abide by the content policy.

I thought Yahoo's policy was to only accept sites in their directory that are of "high quality." So doesn't it follow that all sites in the directory should be spidered?

Tropical Island

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tropical_island us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 1:59 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)


Tim, is a pre existing listing in the Y directory that has paid, and is commercial, likely to be spidered and/or included in the new serps?

We would also like to know the answer to this one.

We paid the $299 for inculsion some years ago and have always been in the serps for our area and search terms.

walkman



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 2:01 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

"I thought Yahoo's policy was to only accept sites in their directory that are of "high quality." So doesn't it follow that all sites in the directory should be spidered? "

>> Well, just because they took you $299 doesn't mean it's high quality :).

Tim, how else will do you determine if it's a "high quality" site or not? Manually, or you just unleash Slurp? The manual part doesn't make sense to me.

NoCarrier

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 2:16 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Please, Tim, or anyone else here

Take the time to read what I have to say, thanks.

I need some explanation.

The new Yahoo! Inclusion program sounds like the directory fiasco when they stopped using it's results.

When I mean fiasco I am talking about the money issues.

Give me one simple reason why I should choose "Site Match" instead of "Content Match".

Content Match (old overture system)

- You are displayed first.
- You don't have a review fee
- There isn't a ranking issue
- You don't need to wait for a bot to change what you want to be displayed

Site Match

- No ranking guaranteed
- Review Fee
- A fixed price of 15 cents or 30 cents per click once your pages are approved

Anyone with some common sense will find the "Site Match" program completely insane. There isn't any advantage, reward.. Anything, NONE. No reason at all to join this program.

It's like asking me to write down the positive aspect of smoking. There is nothing positive.

This is the worst long-term strategy I've ever heard

If you want to be a player in the SE game long-term, you NEED to provide the best & most accurate search results.

Yahoo will make some quick money from this, but the search results will suffer and people will continue to migrate over to other search engines as they have been because people are looking for relevant results. Not a competition between huge corporations.

Allright, you are talking about a "free submit" option. Ok. Another reason why I shouldn't choose the "Site Match" option. Especially if there isn't any "ranking improvement".

What do I get with "site match"? Well, my pages are refreshed every 48 hours. That's still not good enough for me to pay for that program.

Something is wrong, really wrong with this idea..

nanocet

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 2:39 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

What about US Federal Trade Commission (FTC) rules about paid listings in search results being indicated as such?
Did this get mentioned and I missed it somewhere?
Do these PFI/PPC inclusions not fall under those rules for some reason?

penfold25

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 2:40 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

hi everyone let me show u something that might be considered interesting, i have a marketleap account and i have inktomi submit on it still.

in my account their is an upgrade to overture sitematch their

when i click on it , it says

my credit card details , etc
and then

2) Select a Category for Your URLs

You can select from
From Adult to Travel.

stcrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:07 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Who in their right mind believes Yahoo has rolled out this program to improve their content?

-s-

logiclamp



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:31 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hey Tim

Why on here

[content.overture.com...]

does it not say that yahoo will crawl for free? It is not even in the FAQ. Do you not think you should be telling potential customers that they can also get free crawling?

Can you point us to where it officially says that Yahoo will be crawling free in perpetuity?

agerhart

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:34 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

does it not say that yahoo will crawl for free? It is not even in the FAQ. Do you not think you should be telling potential customers that they can also get free crawling?

When you buy a bottle of water, does it say on the front of the bottle that you can get water for free from any tap?

Vince

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:45 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Iím surprised so many people are complaining about Site Match. Who didnít see this coming? Every month it becomes more costly (especially for the little guy) to do business on the web and these big corporations only focus on how to maximize their next quarters profits. Within the year they will increase the cost for Overtures Pay-for-Performance program or introduce a more expensive program making Site Match look like the sweetest deal on the web.

As for Yahoo saying their ongoing changes will improve our overall search experience, how about my competitor, who I have been reporting to Yahoo for six months now, using four different URLís that all redirect to the website, owns six of the top twenty search result in our main keyword search, and is listed twice under two URLs in the same business listing category (both redirecting to the same website). Even more ironic, we cancelled our Yahoo Sponsor Listing in November but they have yet to remove our sponsor listing status. Weíre waiting for an IRS type email from Yahoo saying that even though we cancelled, itís our responsibility to make sure they deleted our Sponsor Listing and now we have to pay (with interest) for all the months of free listings. Itís obvious that the big wigs at Yahoo (and other top search engines) are putting their entire resources into making as much money as possible and donít much care about quality aspect of their product or the devastating effects these changes have on many of its loyal customers.

This 423 message thread spans 15 pages: < < 423 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 > >
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