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Yahoo Search Engine and Directory Forum

This 423 message thread spans 15 pages: < < 423 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 > >     
Yahoo Inclusion Program
Trying to clear up some misunderstanding in this forum
Tim

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 10:02 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

The primary means of generating our index is via our free crawl, using our new Yahoo! Slurp crawler. Yahoo! Slurp discovers pages by following links on the web. We update our index with a daily crawl to gather newly created and fast-changing URLs, as well as our main crawl which updates our index incrementally twice per week.

We supplement this free crawl with the paid inclusion program, which allows us to add dynamic database content and other content that we could not otherwise discover and crawl. Currently less than 1% of our index is content that is included via our inclusion programs.

Our paid inclusion programs provide a superior way for sites to interact with us in a clearly structured fashion. These sites get the following
benefits:
1) Control over which URLs they include in the index (subject to content
guidelines)
2) Frequent refresh
3) Clearly defined way to interact with us (for example: clear feed
specifications)
4) Quality review and consultation (for feed customers)
5) Detailed reporting to track and optimize performance
6) Customer service

Participation in Yahoo!'s paid inclusion program does not guarantee rank in the search results. URLs are ranked in search results in the same way as all other URLs from the free crawl. The key drivers of ranking are keyword-specific relevance and site quality, as assessed by our regular search relevance algorithms with input from the quality review process.

(Note that Inktomi Index Connect clients are receiving Yahoo! Search traffic going forward, and Inktomi Search Submit customers are receiving a free trial of Yahoo! traffic until 4/15/04.)

We will also be launching free URL submission during the week of 3/1. This service allows content providers to suggest that the crawler should visit a site during the main crawl cycle. This service is different than paid inclusion in two ways:

1) There is no guarantee that we will crawl and include the URL in the index.
2) As this site potentially could be added to the main crawl, Yahoo! Slurp will follow links from that URL.

This service will reside on the Yahoo.com site and be accessible via a Yahoo! login. This service has been available for the AltaVista and Alltheweb Indices previously and the tradition will continue with Yahoo! Search.

 

Tim

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:20 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Tim, why is it that some of us are in the index but are not to be found in the serps, even if we call up a page by title and .com?

>>We are still migrating our product to the new Yahoo Search technology

MarkHutch

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:23 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Only an idiot would say that. Pathetic "journalism".

The advertising model AOL and Yahoo used for years is dead. (selling advertising to pay the bills) This is the only way that can make a profit these days. While I can understand that, there are still some of us out here that got rip off by their $299 program for directory listings and got nothing but a 15 second visit by some low wage employee that determined the site was not worthy of a Yahoo listing. I'm willing to put the past where it belongs, but Yahoo has got to show some integrity in the future or they are going to have big time problems getting people to give them money again for a maybe game.

Abigail

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:24 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

So this sounds like we just have to be a little patient - is that what you are saying? I hope.

Tim

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:27 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

First, you should have launched the free Add URL first. Announcing this other thing first is just dumb.
>>We are planning on launching the free add url. It is launching this week.

Second, I'll eat my computer if public domain sites use this.
It is free for public domain sites. We signed a whole bunch of content providers if you read the release:

As part of the non-commercial channel of CAP, called Public Site Match, Yahoo! Search is working with several content providers from government, academia and other non-profit sectors to help improve search quality and expand the breadth and depth of content users can access through search, including:
•NPR (National Public Radio), an internationally acclaimed producer and distributor of non-commercial news, talk and entertainment programming, will provide access to the audio from its flagship news and information programs.
•Northwestern University’s online OYEZ project contains more than 2,000 hours of Supreme Court audio, including all audio recorded since 1995.
•Library of Congress, the research arm of Congress, is the largest library in the world with more than 128 million items, including 29 million books and other print materials, 12 million photographs and 57 million manuscripts.

Additional CAP partners include The New York Public Library, one of the most renowned libraries in the country; Project Gutenberg, the Web’s oldest producer of free electronic books; University of Michigan’s OAIster project, which provides hard to find academic collections; UCLA’s Cuneiform Digital Library Initiative (CDLI) with content documenting Babylonian history back to 3500 B.C.; Wikipedia, a free, multilingual online encyclopedia with articles in more than 50 languages; and the National Science Digital Library (NSDL), the National Science Foundation’s online library, with more than 250 collections that improve the way Americans learn about science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. The OYEZ, CDLI and NSDL projects are all federally funded in part or in whole by the National Science Foundation

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:29 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Okay, maybe I missed the point.

I thought the first three results would be this goofy program. If they just mix with the regular results, like the Ink stuff does now, then it wouldn't be so bad.

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:30 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

"it wouldn't be so bad."

In other words, hardly anybody will use it or need to use it if the free crawl is as good as it should be.

cyberfyber

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:32 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Let's see what "aggressively crawl the web" really means.

Abigail

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:34 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

A little ray of sunshine peaking into into the black paranoid world of the webmaster - what a life we lead!

cyberfyber

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:35 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

You're such a poet Abigail!

;)

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:36 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

If this program just mixes with the regular results without preference, and allows sites with mega-deep dynamic urls to get their product pages in the database, okay, fine.

But if you get a ranking benefit from this, or if normal informational/business sites get pushed down three (or more) spots by megacorporations, then the antitrust dudes are gonna have a field day.

Kirby

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:36 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

>In other words, hardly anybody will use it or need to use it if the free crawl is as good as it should be

That is the .30 per click question.

Abigail

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:37 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Well if the website falls apart I can fall back as a coffee house poet! :)

cyberfyber

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:43 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

<<If this program just mixes with the regular results without preference, and allows sites with mega-deep dynamic urls to get their product pages in the database, okay, fine.>>

With this new SiteMatch idea, I kind of presumed that it would be listed alongside other results, sort of the way Google does their Ads on the side, or perhaps atop all the other regular results.

Am I way off with this?

Tim

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:48 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

The results both commercial and non commercial will be included in the search results similarly to the way the old PI program worked. To clarify though: the urls in the program will be treated similarly by the relevance algorithm as the free crawl URLs.

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:50 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Okay then, if no ranking preference....

it all comes down to the quality of the free crawl then.

And of a course the ranking algorithm is sane. This likely means thousands more Amazon pages. If they show up first for everything, not many people will think that is a good idea.

outland88

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:52 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

From the articles I have read, since the announcement, free submission will not be available for commercial sites. Let's here some clarification on who is allowed in free.

cashmere

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:57 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

"This likely means thousands more Amazon pages. If they show up first for everything, not many people will think that is a good idea."

This brings us to our next option - Paid Removal (PR). If enough people want a page gone and pay $29, they're out!

Tim

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 7:58 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Free AddURL is included in CAP as part of the free crawl.

There are three parts:
1) free crawl (free ADDURL included)
2) Public domain and non commercial data (free)
3) Commercial Data (paid)

Tim

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 8:03 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Interestingly enough with Amazon I see them showing up a lot more in the search engine that does not "charge" for PI than in the Yahoo results. Try some queries for yourself.

I am reading a book by Michael Lewis now and I searched for the book title in both Google and Yahoo and noticed a big difference in Amazon visibility.

outland88

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 8:22 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

>Free AddURL is included in CAP as part of the free crawl.
There are three parts:
1) free crawl (free ADDURL included)
2) Public domain and non commercial data (free)

Why would Yahoo emphasize a difference between point 1 and 2 if they are both free for commercial and non commercial sites?

How does Yahoo distinguish between a commercial and non-commercial site? The reason I ask is many so called content sites carry a boat load of advertising but sell nothing and are highly profitable where commerce sites tend to carry order pages.

cyberfyber

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 8:28 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

<<How does Yahoo distinguish between a commercial and non-commercial site? The reason I ask is many so called content sites carry a boat load of advertising but sell nothing and are highly profitable where commerce sites tend to carry order pages.>>

Good question

and by the same token, there are sites with huge amount of great content which benefits the public and yet also carry advertising and still make profits.

or did I just repeat your question?

Dayo_UK

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 8:33 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yep, pretty much the same question :)

And also there are some commercial sites that it would be bizare if you could not find them in the Yahoo index! (If Yahoo want to become the number 1 search site)

We will just have to wait and see.......

cyberfyber

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 8:35 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I foresee the coming months as being truly frustrating yet exciting

...but still frustrating.

Hollywood

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 8:58 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Better look for a new job SEO's!

Dow Jones Business News
Yahoo Search Results to Include Paid Links
Tuesday March 2, 2:15 am ET

[biz.yahoo.com...]

The move is likely to add fuel to the growing battle between Yahoo and its main rival, Google Inc (News - Websites) ., which has surpassed Yahoo to become the nation's most popular search site.

Google (News - Websites) , of Mountain View, Calif., says it doesn't let advertisers pay to be included in its traditional search results. Google does allow advertisers to pay for promotions that appear alongside search results, but these are clearly labeled as "sponsored links." Google executives say their users favor this neutral, technology-driven approach. (Yahoo also continues to have a separate " sponsored" section for advertisers.)

viggen

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 9:01 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Better look for a new job SEO's!

Why?
The more complicated and diverse the Search Engine World is, the more an expert is needed.

tigger

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tigger us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 9:05 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

agree ;0)

Hollywood

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 9:08 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I really think the owners of sites could handle PayPerClicks and campaigns like this on their own if they do not have to worry about free placements anymore.

Sad but true, I hope users worldwide revold on this news though as I think this is not the way to drive the superhighway.

This is not a big highway/freeway cigarette billboard it's supposed to be here for users to see good non-biased search results to assist in what they are looking for.

In my opinion this sucks for surfers, it sucks for the entire world as they just started the first blow against the human machine!

It's all going to turn into a big ugly yellow-page-worldwide-yahoo.com

Just my opinion

Hollywood

cyberfyber

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 9:21 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

In an interview Monday, Google co-founder Larry Page called Yahoo’s new system “a pretty bad thing to do. There are plenty of profits to go around in search engines to find ways to improve the user experience without charging fees to do it.”

more at:
[msnbc.msn.com...]

a2ztranslate

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 9:29 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

ok, have scrolled through 14 pages of messages and have got some idea of what is going on (would an administrator like to post a summary?).

my question is: for those of us who work on localised versions of yahoo (japan, germany etc.) is there a schedule for roll out of same system in other languages? can Tim help me out here so i can start planning ahead?

tigger

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tigger us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 9:37 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've asked the same question, with no response

herewego

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 10:14 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Sorry if this is a dumb question but now I'll be paying $49 per url p.a. plus 0.15 per click to appear in the search results, what additional advantage is there to also paying $299 to be included in the directory?
Am I missing something (apart from $299)?

This 423 message thread spans 15 pages: < < 423 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 > >
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