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Yahoo Inclusion Program
Trying to clear up some misunderstanding in this forum

 10:02 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

The primary means of generating our index is via our free crawl, using our new Yahoo! Slurp crawler. Yahoo! Slurp discovers pages by following links on the web. We update our index with a daily crawl to gather newly created and fast-changing URLs, as well as our main crawl which updates our index incrementally twice per week.

We supplement this free crawl with the paid inclusion program, which allows us to add dynamic database content and other content that we could not otherwise discover and crawl. Currently less than 1% of our index is content that is included via our inclusion programs.

Our paid inclusion programs provide a superior way for sites to interact with us in a clearly structured fashion. These sites get the following
1) Control over which URLs they include in the index (subject to content
2) Frequent refresh
3) Clearly defined way to interact with us (for example: clear feed
4) Quality review and consultation (for feed customers)
5) Detailed reporting to track and optimize performance
6) Customer service

Participation in Yahoo!'s paid inclusion program does not guarantee rank in the search results. URLs are ranked in search results in the same way as all other URLs from the free crawl. The key drivers of ranking are keyword-specific relevance and site quality, as assessed by our regular search relevance algorithms with input from the quality review process.

(Note that Inktomi Index Connect clients are receiving Yahoo! Search traffic going forward, and Inktomi Search Submit customers are receiving a free trial of Yahoo! traffic until 4/15/04.)

We will also be launching free URL submission during the week of 3/1. This service allows content providers to suggest that the crawler should visit a site during the main crawl cycle. This service is different than paid inclusion in two ways:

1) There is no guarantee that we will crawl and include the URL in the index.
2) As this site potentially could be added to the main crawl, Yahoo! Slurp will follow links from that URL.

This service will reside on the Yahoo.com site and be accessible via a Yahoo! login. This service has been available for the AltaVista and Alltheweb Indices previously and the tradition will continue with Yahoo! Search.



 3:26 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

"and they still didn't remove the penalty? Geeez..."

Not yet. But we are very hopeful though. Because the penalty was an automated one (placed on us by the engine not a person) it appears that it is more complex to remove. We are practicing patience to the nth degree. ;)

Tim spoke at Pubcon about adding an element of customer service to PI that hasn't been there in the past. It was VERY encouraging!

For anyone who thinks I am bluffing or blowing smoke... a few weeks ago, we hired an very reputable and well known SEO firm to go through our entire site in search of any possible reason for any penalty (and yes, we paid quite a bit for it too). They were baffled and simply confirmed what we already knew... they couldn't find anything. They guessed that the only possible reason would be lots of inbound links from our own Yahoo store (navigational purposes only to get from our Yahoo store to the other content areas of our site).

In fairness to Ink... perhaps this was some penalty that was levied more than a year ago, before I owned the site. And maybe it just didn't surfaced or affect us until we signed up for Paid Inclusion. I really don't know.


 3:48 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

We had two Inktomi editors go through our entire site with "a fine-toothed comb" (It's a big site) and they couldn't find anything warranting a spam penalty at all.

kanetrain, just as I was starting to have faith that the new regime at Yahink might take care of a missing homepage we (don't) have in their SERP's, you go and tell us this? Geez, I'm just missing one homepage of one site and I'm irked about it...I can only imagine how you feel.

If you went thru all that, and INK themselves can't tell you what the matter was, what kind of hope is there for anyone else? Amazing story. If I didn't want to cry, I'd laugh.


 3:57 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

"If you went thru all that, and INK themselves can't tell you what the matter was, what kind of hope is there for anyone else? Amazing story. If I didn't want to cry, I'd laugh. "

same feeling over here, things are not looking good. Kanetrain, how did you even get the Ink guys to check the site? I'm curious.


 4:06 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)


This is the new Yahoo PFI program explained in detail.

Just when Tim had me convinced that the "new" Yahoo PFi was going to somehow be different than the old Inktomi PFI, this proves that Yahoo has not learned anything.

Look at this quote:

"Choose Pages for Inclusion: Submit a few pages of content or include your entire site to maximize your exposure."

Yahoo is admitting here that if you want to get your whole site indexed, you need to PAY to include all that content. In other words, if you submit just a "few pages", those are the only pages that will get indexed.

This means that, just like Inktomi, they care more about the quick buck than spidering the whole web and refreshing it often to provide the best possible index. The folks at Yahoo know that that it's deceptive to allow paid listing in the "pure" results, but they also know that 80% of people click on the natural listtings... and they just cant resist the temptation to monetize it.

... just wait until the FTC knocks on their door with deceptive advertising claims. Perhaps that's the only way they will be forced to change their ways.


 4:11 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

"How much does it cost to use Site Match?
Site Match subscribers who submit less than 1,000 URLs pay an annual review fee, which breaks down as follows:
<b>First URL: $49
URLs 2-10: $29 each
URLs 11-999: $10 each</b>

Subscribers <b>then pay a fixed cost-per-click for each customer lead that clicks on their listing</b>. For most content categories, the cost-per-click is $0.15, while select categories are priced at $0.30 per click."
Adding it it's one thing, you will have to pay per click too. I guess some people can afford it.


 4:15 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm still hoping that Tim and crew can get this thing worked out. I'm a little concerned that experts can't figure out what's happening with the database and why sites are NOT being spidered. Hopefully, the new owners (Yahoo) have some kind of provision in their sales contract with Ink about hidden stuff in their algo. If so, maybe checking with the previous owners might do the trick if they could possibly lose money if they don't comply with the sales contract?

Who knows what else they have hidden in there!


 4:21 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Google is loving this right now.


 4:33 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Chairman: "Right. We've got the mother of all search battles on our hands. Empires will be won and lost. The big three are charging into the ring and there will be no prisoners taken. Anyone got any ideas?"

Intern: "We could always do a Looksmart?".

Chairman & Board "Hurrah!"


 5:01 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Forgive me if this has been asked (first post here)
but if I opt not to go with the new overture PPC system does that mean after awhile my sites wont even be indexed at all?, sorry read the site but didnt really see anything on how it would affect the 'old'


 6:08 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

This is such a joke. Yahoo is on crack. Hopefully their free crawler will be good, because most webmasters won't pay for inclusion at those prices. Paying per clickon PFI? They are smoking some funny cigarettes up at Yahoo HQ.


 6:09 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

>but if I opt not to go with the new overture PPC system does that mean after awhile my sites wont even be indexed at all?,

Doubtful, as this would lead to a small index.


 6:25 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)


That's insane!

Why would I want to pay for an inclusion program when I could use the content match and be displayed first?

I don't get it..

Why pay 49$ then 0,15 cents per click when you could just use the old overture system and avoid the review fee.

The 15 cents per click is just horrible.

Something is really, really wrong with this idea.


 6:36 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

It sounds to me like they want to discourage PFI - but maybe I am just getting a little addled already.


 6:40 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

The new Yahoo is Oveture repackaged. The last time I bought into something like this it was called Looksmart. It's official now they've sold the results to the highest bidder and biggest spammers. They've got to ruin AV and All the Web to complete the dominance.


 6:49 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

SO, please correct me if I'm wrong. Despite all the hullaballoo concerning SiteMatch, ARE WE still waiting for Yahoo's new SE to be revealed or is it already running? I'm referring to how they handle the freebies.

[edited by: cyberfyber at 6:50 am (utc) on Mar. 2, 2004]


 6:50 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

ok am I being really thick here but do you have to pay for inclusion then also pay per click as well?


 6:52 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

You got a problem with that?


 6:54 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

if thats directed towards me then yes I do! I don't mind paying either but not both


 6:59 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

OK - just think on that for a minute and do the math - .30 a click x a conservative 2000 clicks per day - now did you really want to pay per click?

[edited by: Abigail at 7:01 am (utc) on Mar. 2, 2004]


 6:59 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

More than 99 percent of Yahoo's search index will consist of Web links that don't pay fees, said Tim Cadogan, the company's vice president of search.

Search engine analysts generally applauded Yahoo's move, saying it could open a rich new vein of content that's lacking from all Internet search engines. But the fees are likely to raise worries about Yahoo creating an online caste system.

From this page:


 7:01 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

so I'm correct both?


 7:03 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

It sounds like both.


 7:04 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)



 7:04 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

thanks, madness!


 7:06 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

We will still be crawling aggresively for free. You will not be forced to pay. Site match is an option for content providers who would like a more structured relationship with the search engine. I think you are missing the fact that we are launching free AddURL in the next few days which gives users another option. We are also crawling the web more aggressively.

Site Match is part of a larger content acquisition strategy which targets public domain sites such as the library of content. This should benefit the user and improve the comprehensiveness of the Index.


 7:08 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've noticed an increase in slurp activity across a number of sites recently, but I've not seen many new pages go into the SERP's is PFI a way to get new content listed faster?


 7:11 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

"Search engine analysts generally applauded Yahoo's move"

Only an idiot would say that. Pathetic "journalism".

[edited by: steveb at 8:39 am (utc) on Mar. 2, 2004]


 7:12 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Maybe it's just me, but SLUP is slow and has been for years. That other two properties... AltaVista and Fast are much faster at crawling the web. Maybe they are focusing on the wrong SE?

I'm glad they are trying new things at Yahoo, but I can't figure out why they are putting so much weight on Ink when they also have other SE's that are faster and have a much more complete database.


 7:14 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Tim, you are drawing dead on this.

First, you should have launched the free Add URL first. Announcing this other thing first is just dumb.

Second, I'll eat my computer if public domain sites use this.


 7:16 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Tim, why is it that some of us are in the index but are not to be found in the serps, even if we call up a page by title and .com?


 7:20 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Tim, why is it that some of us are in the index but are not to be found in the serps, even if we call up a page by title and .com?

>>We are still migrating our product to the new Yahoo Search technology

This 423 message thread spans 15 pages: < < 423 ( 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 ... 15 > >
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