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Yahoo Search Engine and Directory Forum

This 423 message thread spans 15 pages: < < 423 ( 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ... 15 > >     
Yahoo Inclusion Program
Trying to clear up some misunderstanding in this forum
Tim

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 10:02 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

The primary means of generating our index is via our free crawl, using our new Yahoo! Slurp crawler. Yahoo! Slurp discovers pages by following links on the web. We update our index with a daily crawl to gather newly created and fast-changing URLs, as well as our main crawl which updates our index incrementally twice per week.

We supplement this free crawl with the paid inclusion program, which allows us to add dynamic database content and other content that we could not otherwise discover and crawl. Currently less than 1% of our index is content that is included via our inclusion programs.

Our paid inclusion programs provide a superior way for sites to interact with us in a clearly structured fashion. These sites get the following
benefits:
1) Control over which URLs they include in the index (subject to content
guidelines)
2) Frequent refresh
3) Clearly defined way to interact with us (for example: clear feed
specifications)
4) Quality review and consultation (for feed customers)
5) Detailed reporting to track and optimize performance
6) Customer service

Participation in Yahoo!'s paid inclusion program does not guarantee rank in the search results. URLs are ranked in search results in the same way as all other URLs from the free crawl. The key drivers of ranking are keyword-specific relevance and site quality, as assessed by our regular search relevance algorithms with input from the quality review process.

(Note that Inktomi Index Connect clients are receiving Yahoo! Search traffic going forward, and Inktomi Search Submit customers are receiving a free trial of Yahoo! traffic until 4/15/04.)

We will also be launching free URL submission during the week of 3/1. This service allows content providers to suggest that the crawler should visit a site during the main crawl cycle. This service is different than paid inclusion in two ways:

1) There is no guarantee that we will crawl and include the URL in the index.
2) As this site potentially could be added to the main crawl, Yahoo! Slurp will follow links from that URL.

This service will reside on the Yahoo.com site and be accessible via a Yahoo! login. This service has been available for the AltaVista and Alltheweb Indices previously and the tradition will continue with Yahoo! Search.

 

lost in space

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 11:08 pm on Feb 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

Tim,

I have many quality sites listed in the Yahoo Directory, but none have been included in the new Yahoo Search results. Will the new spider find them via crawling the Yahoo Directories or do I need to submit them. Also is there going to be a limit on free submissions?

Thank You & Yahoo for supporting webmasters!

atadams

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 11:28 pm on Feb 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

I guess my question is how can you say "Customers who have already paid for the current Inktomi program will continue to get all the benefits they have paid for - distribution across the pre-Yahoo! Inktomi network" when it was presented to me that one of the benefits I was paying for was inclusion in Yahoo.

Honestly, I feel a little swindled.

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 11:33 pm on Feb 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

"when it was presented to me"

The question then is who presented it to you. It's not yahoo's fault if something erroneous was presented by a reseller or a seo person.

atadams

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 11:53 pm on Feb 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

steveB, from this link on Yahoo (it's still there):

[help.yahoo.com...]

Web Results are the most relevant web pages found by Yahoo! Search Technology in response to your search terms. Web Results may include sites that participate in the Inktomi Index Connect™ or Search Submit™ programs. Sites from both of these programs pay to be included in our search engine index, and for Index Connect, sites also pay to be reviewed for relevance.

Abigail

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 12:21 am on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Now that is interesting - I was sure I read some such thing myself.

datgrrl

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 12:27 am on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Isn't anyone but me upset that we're being forced to go from an easily budgeted flat fee for inclusion (12 months) to a PPC? There's no way to budget accurately for an inclusion PPC, without just throwing some money in to see how long it lasts.

For some of my smaller clients, it's just a pain to even try to explain all this (hardly worth the time for any money I'd make in a markup). And for larger clients, you can bet they're not going to like having to pay per click for organic traffic when they've gotten it for free all these years. And who's to say that Y! won't dump the major (read: deep pockets) advertisers and force them to participate in PPC? This is really screwing with SEMs who offer PI on a flat-rate as part of their organic contracts.

At $.25/click, the Inktomi program doesn't make sense for all advertisers. How can this work for all of Y!s advertisers? It's going to be a LookSmart fiasco all over again.

walkman



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:27 am on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi Tim,
Will having a few pages on PFI hurt the chance of getting the rest of that site indexed for free?

Let's assume that the site has plenty of backlinks and can be found by Slurp. Several people asked this. It would be grosly unfair IMO.

biggles

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:59 am on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Tim - thanks for the insight into Yahoo. Very helpful.

Maybe I missed the answer to the question asked earlier, but what is going to be the cost of the Yahoo PFI and is it per URL or PPC?

Also, will there be any advantages dealing with Yahoo direct (i.e. Overture) versus going thru re-sellers like Position Tech?

Thanks

[edited by: biggles at 4:00 am (utc) on Mar. 1, 2004]

webguybri

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 4:00 am on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

"Web Results are the most relevant web pages found by Yahoo! Search Technology in response to your search terms. Web Results may include sites that participate in the Inktomi Index Connect™ or Search Submit™ programs. Sites from both of these programs pay to be included in our search engine index, and for Index Connect, sites also pay to be reviewed for relevance. "

bet....Tim is getting this changed right now.....;)

it does say "May" though....

cbpayne

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 4:37 am on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Isn't anyone but me upset that we're being forced to go from an easily budgeted flat fee for inclusion (12 months) to a PPC?

Where did that come from?
No where has it been said you will have to pay to be included in the Yahoo index - I think you need to go back and reread Tim's messages.

Chris_D

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 12:30 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the helpful insights Tim.

It would be great when all the legacy issues relating to the earlier programmes:

- FAST PFI
- Inktomi PFI
- Yahoo directory 'PFI' and
- Alta Vista PFI

are all resolved. Because - pretty soon - I think you'll be telling me that I have some clients whose same URL is in the 'new Yahoo!' at least 3 times (legitimately)- because they had previously paid in 3 separate engines PFI programmes - which are now just one index....!

Cause if they all get cut as duplicates - that would be a major issue!

So the sooner we know how you'll handle this situation - the sooner I can ensure that the existing PFI is split over a wider range of client URLS - and stop the potential duplication.... and allow my clients to maximise their returns...

atadams

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 12:35 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

This is now on the Inktomi site:

IMPORTANT NOTICE ABOUT INKTOMI SEARCH SUBMIT
Yahoo! Search has transitioned to its own search technology and is preparing to launch a new inclusion program. As a bonus for Search Submit customers, Yahoo! Search is providing a free trial of Yahoo! traffic that will end on April 15, 2004. When the new inclusion program launches, Search Submit customers will have the option of joining the new program for ongoing participation in Yahoo! Search results.

[inktomi.com...]

I'm not sure what it means by "Search Submit customers will have the option of joining the new program for ongoing participation in Yahoo! Search results." Does that mean we can pay again, like everyone else, or we can transfer to the Yahoo search? From everything else I've heard, it sounds like the former.

kevinpate

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 1:15 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

> If you are currently in the index ... I would
> continue creating more great content ....
> think the only change you will see ... is
> greater comprehensiveness ... .

InkSlurp was right kind to us with F3 visits (full, frequent, free.) It's nice to hear that the intent of Y!Slurp is to continue the F3 pattern.

We'll continue to do for Slurp what Tom B. does for traveler's .... we'll leave the light on for ya.

stcrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 2:51 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>Will having a few pages on PFI hurt the chance of getting the rest of that site indexed for free?<<<

If New Yahoo is Like Old Inktomi, the answer is YES it will hurt you on free pages.

I haven't heard of anyone having paid and free pages on the same domain in Inktomi. Anyone else?

-s-

agerhart

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 2:55 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>>I haven't heard of anyone having paid and free pages on the same domain in Inktomi. Anyone else?

Raising my hand.

Tim

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 2:56 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>Will having a few pages on PFI hurt the chance of getting the rest of that site indexed for free?<<<

No it will not in Yahoo Search.

Tim

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 2:58 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm not sure what it means by "Search Submit customers will have the option of joining the new program for ongoing participation in Yahoo! Search results." Does that mean we can pay again, like everyone else, or we can transfer to the Yahoo search? From everything else I've heard, it sounds like the former.

It means that you will be able to stay in the current program and get the existing traffic that you paid for until your subscription ends or move to the new program if you want the additional Yahoo traffic. You will have a special offer to migrate to the new program.

Tim

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:01 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

My site has over 50,000 "eyeball" page views a day (all bots are excluded from this count), and has 120,000 static pages. Google has covered it fairly well now for three years, by including anywhere from 60,000 to 90,000 pages from this nonprofit, tax-exempt site in their index.

Scarecrow,
Please send an email to webmasterworldfeedback@yahoo.com and I will forward your contact info to the non profit content people and they will help you make sure we have your content is in the index

webvisitor



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:02 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Search is about paying now so SEOs should not be upset by PFI. We charge our custumers whether its free or PFI. PFI makes it more difficult to get the client listed higher. Yahoo should not be concerned about our problems.
Yahoo's PI plan makes it more fair to those that aren't paying for upper-end optimization.
I believe in a year INK will be history other than feeding MSN until the contract is disolved or ends.
INKs days are numbered.
It's about Yahoo Search and Google now and Yahoo is going about making money for its shareholders.
Google will be forced into the same scenario after they go public.
As usual Yahoo leads.
btw-- thanks Tim for your online presence here.

atadams

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:04 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thanks Tim. That's what I wanted to hear.

Tim

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:04 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have many quality sites listed in the Yahoo Directory, but none have been included in the new Yahoo Search results. Will the new spider find them via crawling the Yahoo Directories or do I need to submit them. Also is there going to be a limit on free submissions?

We are working on including all the quality sites in the Yahoo Directory. We have many of them but not all. Please be patient.

Aman



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:08 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Tim said (at the beginning of the tread) “We will also be launching free URL submission during the week of 3/1.”

I dug around on but didn’t find a free URL submission yet…

Tim

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:16 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

When Free ADDURL is launched I will let you know. I am going to walk over to the Search Engine conference now. I will stop in here later.

Aman



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:28 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thanks!
I know others here have told you but you are very responsive and helpful.
We really appreciate your help and information.

Abigail

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:39 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

PFI disappeared from Yahoo this morning.

Update: Apparently this is a Position Tech problem not Yahoo.

[edited by: Abigail at 4:20 pm (utc) on Mar. 1, 2004]

stcrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:53 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>Will having a few pages on PFI hurt the chance of getting the rest of that site indexed for free?

No it will not in Yahoo Search - as per Tim.<<<

Tim -

does that mean that Yahoo is going to handle this differently than Inktomi?

In INK if you had a page in the db and paid for one the freebie would (or could) remain but you would never get a new freebie.

If you did not have pages in the db and paid for one the only pages you could get in the db for that domain had to be paid.

By the way I ask this same question of you when you worked for Inktomi and you gave the same answer as above which didn't hold up.

Your thoughts?

-s-

seasalt

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:57 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>Will having a few pages on PFI hurt the chance of getting the rest of that site indexed for free?<<<

No it will not in Yahoo Search.

Tim:

Does your answer that PFI does not affect free indexing also include current Inktomi distribution search engines (MSN, etc.)?

seasalt

aly4848

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 3:57 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>>I haven't heard of anyone having paid and free pages on the same domain in Inktomi. Anyone else?

Yes, I have several sites with both paid and free pages in INK

stcrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 4:12 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>Yes, I have several sites with both paid and free pages in INK<<<

But chances are you had the free ones before you paid for any...

It doesn't seem to work the other way around.

-s-

Abigail

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 4:14 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

I had lots of free ones before I paid for one and then the free ones disappeared. That was over a year ago and the freebies have not resurfaced.

stcrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1790 posted 4:26 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Abigail

My point exactly! And since Yahoo isn't doing PFI for their health, I bet you're gonna see the same thing there.

They are not out to help the lowly webmaster get along in this world - this is a for profit system they are building and all the sugar coating in the universe isn't going to change that...

-s-

This 423 message thread spans 15 pages: < < 423 ( 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ... 15 > >
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