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Optimizing for Yahoo
Here's a tutorial.
markis00




msg:842253
 5:19 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi all,

I know that now since Yahoo is going to own half the searches on the 'net and Google will own the other, we all have to figure out how to optimize for Yahoo.

Many of us know that if we do optimize for Yahoo, it may be out of the question to do well in Google SERPS as well.

Quite frankly, since everyone is having problems getting into the Google index as of late, I don't care about optimizing for Google anymore. I optimized my site for Inktomi and I'm third in Yahoo SERPS for my keyword right now.

Thus, here's what I did and what should work for all you yahoo optimizer-wanna bes out there.

-Use your optimized keyword/keyphrase right at the beginning of your title tag, then use a comma to seperate it with anything else. Ex. blue fuzzy widgets, your url here.

-Use bold, italic, and other forms of making your keyword stand out in your body.

-Put your optimized keyword/keyphrase in a h1 tag, as the first keyphrase in your meta keyword and meta description, in your title tags (text links or otherwise) linking back to your homepage.

-Use a keyword density of 20-30% in your body content.

-Use bold tags at the beginning of the document to describe what the page is about. Repeat this process at the end of the page.

-Build 100 links using your optimized keyword/keyphrase all in the same relevant field (use link building policies)

Basically this is exactly the same optimization methods as Inktomi, but I did it, and when Yahoo switched to Ink, I was third.

Also, anyone know if Pagerank means anything when it comes to optimizing for Yahoo? Has Yahoo developed it's own Pagerank like algo yet, and is it going to?

I haven't had all my pages crawled by Yahoo yet so I don't know if this works for sub-pages as well, but in theory it should. So try applying the same methods to all your pages on your site and when you eventually get them all indexed in Yahoo they should do well, too.

Also, I read a post about Yahoo not including pages that uses Adsense. That's a lie. My site's homepage is third and it has Adsense right at the top.

 

sem4u




msg:842254
 5:25 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

Okay, well I agree with most of it, but:

-Use your optimized keyword/keyphrase right at the beginning of your title tag, then use a comma to seperate it with anything else. Ex. blue fuzzy widgets, your url here.

Put your URL in the title tag? How does this help ranking? Or did you mean something else?

-Build 100 links using your optimized keyword/keyphrase all in the same relevant field (use link building policies)

You may need more or less links depending on the industry/products targeted. Also, link text could be important.

markis00




msg:842255
 5:36 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

Put your URL in the title tag? How does this help ranking? Or did you mean something else?

You can put whatever you want after really.

You may need more or less links depending on the industry/products targeted. Also, link text could be important.

True enough. Link text is very important. Use anchor text with your keyword in it (preferably, put only the keyword you're optimizing for in the anchor text).

howiejs




msg:842256
 6:03 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

2 questions

1) how long did it take to get picked up by Y / Ink?
(did you submit this somewhere or was it picked up from a link?)

2) Use a keyword density of 20-30% in your body content?
how can you write with such a high % - and still please users vs. spiders?

markis00




msg:842257
 6:15 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

<quote>how long did it take to get picked up by Y Ink?</quote>

I used Inktomi PFI and it was indexed in two days. The home page, at least. Apparently it takes a looooooooooong time to get all the pages in.

<quote>how can you write with such a high % - and still please users vs. spiders?</quote>

That's something you have to figure out yourself. Try to put the keyword in places where it fits - don't cram it in.

markis00




msg:842258
 6:15 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

seems my quote didn't work..

Herath




msg:842259
 6:19 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yahoo also seems to weight alt tag text on images more than google.

markis00




msg:842260
 6:39 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yup

tictoc




msg:842261
 2:06 am on Feb 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

I use dashes to separate words in my title do you think that is bad compared to commas?

howiejs




msg:842262
 3:18 pm on Feb 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

Main issue - Ink spider just doesn't go "deep" for anything we do. We have a good number of links and the pages that are "in" there rank really high . .

2_much




msg:842263
 12:29 am on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yahoo claims that they are devoting a lot of resources for the free spidering database.

However, if you want your deep content crawled, you may have to pay via their PFI program.

What you can do is build links to your internal pages to see if that helps the spider pick them up.

Robert Charlton




msg:842264
 8:40 am on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

markis - Is what you're posting conjecture, or have you tested and observed all of these things? I'm sure I'm not going to test a lot of them, but I can tell you that I have some high ranking pages in the new Yahoo that aren't similar in any way to some of your suggestions. I think an across-the-board keyword density suggestion of 20-30% is outlandish.

2_much - My experience on a high PR non-profit site (Google PR7) of roughly 250K dynamic pages (with cleaned-up urls), Yahoo actually has more pages indexed than does Google. I posted the figures in the supporters forum in a similar discussion. Comparisons are a little tricky with this many dynamic pages, because... even with the cleaned up urls... it's hard to know how many pages are variants of the same page, but I don't think that Yahoo is not crawling well-linked sites that have been around for a while.

How this translates into the indexing of large catalog sites isn't clear.

markis00




msg:842265
 2:17 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Robert - this is a tried and true method. I did it myself and I'm ranking high on yahoo...

I guess google methods will work for Yahoo too. I've seen some sites holding top positions on both Yahoo and Google...so I'm sure this isn't the only way, but A way.

figment88




msg:842266
 3:26 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Since you are buried under 4 sponsored listings, isn't the way to rank higher on Yahoo$ bidding more on Overture?

Of course you might be optimizing for less competitive keywords that don't have Overture bids. If the words are less competitive, though, any slap-dash optimization should bring you to the top.

Chicken Juggler




msg:842267
 3:49 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

What does it mean if you are number one on yahoo and nowhere on MSN or hotbot. I have PFI (may have ansered my own question).

I have:
1. kw as first 2 words of title.
2. H1 tag first text on page with kw in first two words
3. KW phrase 29 times with 467 words altogether (pasted all text in word and looked at stats)
4. H2 tag with kw in first 2 words
5. No alt tage (fixing now)
6. No bold or Italics or underlined except h tags (fixing now)

jchance




msg:842268
 5:18 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Use a keyword density of 20-30% in your body content.

Every 3rd or 4th word is your keyword?!? That widget must be an annoying widget read for your widget visitors.

Personally, I think 5% is a little more realistic...

flobaby




msg:842269
 5:47 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

That widget must be an annoying widget read for your widget visitors.

LOL! Made me spit coffee on the laptop.

Robert Charlton




msg:842270
 7:01 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

this is a tried and true method. I did it myself and I'm ranking high on yahoo...

Against what kind of competition (say, as measured as number of pages returned on Google for the exact phrase)?

is300




msg:842271
 6:00 am on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I definately agree that yahoo has implemented their own pagerank formula similar to how Google's was 3 months ago. I further strongly believe that anchor text linking to your site will help. I have two inbound paid links to my site that my leading competitor has, and I am now in the top 2-3 spots for my highly competitive 3 keyphrases.

I think if you were doing well in google 3-4 months ago, you should be doing well in yahoo. Granted, you still need to have your pages optimized as mentioned earlier. However, my mooderately optimized pages aren't helping me anymore with google.

I'm curious what people have experienced on yahoo with sites that have high amounts of outbound links. This seems to be needed to rank good on google...but i'm not sure if this will hurt my ranking on Yahoo. as of now most of my links are inbound.

Chicken Juggler




msg:842272
 7:23 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I rank in Yahoo where I did pre florida. I don't rank at all however in MSN or Hotbot.

janejanejane




msg:842273
 11:48 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

A question:

I've paid an Inktomi inclusion fee (years ago) for several sites to have the home page indexed by Inktomi. These sites do not show up in Yahoo (they are very high in the Google Serps). It appears that these site have suffered a penalty (not overoptimized though).

Any comments, suggestions, or is there anywhere in Yahoo! proper where I can appeal for support? - Jane

pleeker




msg:842274
 12:09 am on Mar 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

Every 3rd or 4th word is your keyword?!? That widget must be an annoying widget read for your widget visitors.

Great comment! :)

20-30% does seem too high, but the truth is that the Y algo is very, very heavily dependent on on-page factors. So you can write complete non-user friendly text -- fill your pages with all kinds of keyword bloat and related crap -- and still rank highly.

I hope they will tweak things to be less dependent on on-page factors so people who write with the user in mind, and not the algo, can fare better.

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