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This 182 message thread spans 7 pages: < < 182 ( 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 > >     
Yahoo rolling out more Inktomi?
percentages going up
EquityMind




msg:840566
 2:28 am on Dec 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

I posted before that I was seeing Inktomi in my Yahoo SERPS and it appeared to be IP based since it was definately Ink at home and Google at my office computer. This has been the case for over a month now. However when I look at the percentages of traffic given over time, I noticed a huge shift today:

Last Monday:

Google: 43% of traffic
Yahoo: 20% of traffic

Today:

Google: 34.7 %
Yahoo: 29.8 %

This is a huge discrepancy considering that this is a site with several million unique visitors per month.

Is anyone else getting percentage of traffic discrepancies today like this? Is Yahoo rolling out more Inktomi as they slowly phase out Google?

EquityMind

 

willybfriendly




msg:840686
 8:31 pm on Feb 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Seeing the new results for the first time in my locale. Not pure Ink, but pretty close. Some garbage, some decent sites, and a lot of what we used to call "doorways".

The next year should be an interesting one.

WBF

4crests




msg:840687
 9:49 pm on Feb 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm seeing a bunch of Looksmart results in my Yahoo serps

steveb




msg:840688
 9:59 pm on Feb 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Since last August for my main term Yahoo has been showing a unique set of results that I finally decided was... top ten from Yahoo Directory, weighted a bit with Google rankings, but weighted much much more with the "most popular" sites in the directory. These ten appeared above the Google-ish results that followed.

For the first time I am now seeing this same top ten mix (eleven actually) above the Inktomi trash.

The results showing for the past several months were extremely good, now the top ten is all great sites, with the next ten being five decent sites and five completely worthless bits of Ink junk. If they choose to weight the the top ten with the most popular sites from the Directory they will be able to mitigate a lot the damage from using these poor Ink results. If they were to more sanely mix in their better results from AV and AlltheWeb, plus the directory weighted at the top, they might be able to manage something okay.

panic




msg:840689
 10:31 pm on Feb 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I am not sure what is wrong for you, but I see very different resulst when I look at ...

Oh, they're different results alright... but they're different Google results.

I'm seeing a bunch of Looksmart results in my Yahoo serps

If that's the case, then you're probably seeing Inktomi results. A few of our Looksmart listings are indexed in Inktomi for some reason.

For the first time I am now seeing this same top ten mix (eleven actually) above the Inktomi trash.

What's with the hostility? Sounds to me like you're bashing Inktomi since you've lost your footing in the SERPS. I bet if you were high in the Inktomi SERPS, you'd be singing a much different song.

4crests




msg:840690
 10:47 pm on Feb 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

nope, some are results that are ONLY in Looksmart & Google, and not in INK, and my logs are showing the referrer as Looksmart via Yahoo. Just started the last couple days. I posted in another thread about it.

Another user suggested that Looksmart was getting some serps from Google. But, it's kind of strange that my Yahoo Store is showing that the Yahoo search came from Looksmart. Definitely something i haven't seen in my logs before.

panic




msg:840691
 10:53 pm on Feb 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yahoo reverted back to Google in Philly but that E088 bit returns the Ink dominated results.

I checked results out of Narberth, PA (just outside of Philly) on Friday, and they were still Google results.

I just wonder how the cookie is distributed ... is it by ISP, geographical location, or is it just at random?

Brett_Tabke




msg:840692
 11:02 pm on Feb 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

reminder : please do not post searches other than "example" or "widget". thanks.

flobaby




msg:840693
 11:03 pm on Feb 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hey Panic,
I'm in Wynnewood. Small world.
Do the Storemaster trick and you should see Ink results.

panic




msg:840694
 11:15 pm on Feb 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Do the Storemaster trick and you should see Ink results.

I've tried it numerous times, and it's still yet to work.

steveb




msg:840695
 11:31 pm on Feb 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

"I bet if you were high in the Inktomi SERPS, you'd be singing a much different song"

I'll never get you guys who think good search results equal your site being ranked well.

Let's see I've posted about the pathetic Ink results for nearly two years, the big majority of the time I've been in the top ten for my main term. Another conspiracy theory out the window.

Try and understand, I couldn't care less where my site ranks, as long as the algorithm used by the search engine values quality. If it does, my rankings take care of themselves.

The problem is that Ink has easily the worst results of the five major engines. The top Ink result for my main term is expired domain that was off topic when it actually existed and now just redirects to a different off-topic site!

Yahoo has three pretty good resources in AV, alltheWeb and its directory, and one that is in disarray in Ink -- and I say that even though I have the #2 result for what is probably the second biggest money word on the Internet.

And to try and get back to the point of the thread, the distinction now between the pretty good top ten from the directory, and the extremely poor next ten from Ink is so dramatic that I'm sure the top ten will all be getting a significant benefit from that.

panic




msg:840696
 12:06 am on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'll never get you guys who think good search results equal your site being ranked well.

I'm not one of 'those guys'. Wether my site is high or low in SERPS, I'll always stick with Ink.

Let's see I've posted about the pathetic Ink results for nearly two years, the big majority of the time I've been in the top ten for my main term.

Are you saying that your site is irrelevant to your listing for your top search term/terms?

The problem is that Ink has easily the worst results of the five major engines.

I literally laughed when I read that. Inktomi has the toughest editorial team I've ever seen by far, which means they boot non-relevant and just flat out bad sites from their index left and right. Believe it or not, they actually slap domains on the trusted feeds editorial actions if necessary (which is more than I can say for the other engines with paid inclusion).

Yahoo has three pretty good resources in AV, alltheWeb and its directory, and one that is in disarray in Ink

You consider failed engines as good resources?

steveb




msg:840697
 12:20 am on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

"You consider failed engines as good resources?"

Um, no. You are the one "sticking with Ink."

You are the one defending the spammiest search engine.
You are the one defending the smallest database:
Widgets Search
168,923 Inktomi
244,372 Altavista
464,300 Teoma
514,460 AlltheWeb
1,010,000 Google
You are the one defending an engine that takes at least two to three months to include crawled pages in its database.

You are defending the engine that as a matter of policy removed all pages from domains that used PFI just because other domains copied their content, yet left all the non-pfi copies.

Inktomi is a failed engine that can't be taken seriously on its own. As part of an amalgam of ATW, AV and the Directory, sure it could have a role, but its pitiful database alone disqualifies it from being a legitimate competitor for Google.

"the toughest editorial team I've ever seen by far"

LOL. Maybe when President Sharpton takes office.

I'd love to see Yahoo build a great search engine. They have the pieces to already create one that is at least okay. They just need to rely least on their weakest, most incomplete property.

willybfriendly




msg:840698
 12:29 am on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

All's back to normal in my locale now. At least I can say that I saw what others have been seeing.

Kind of like UFO's - don't believe in them until you've seen one.

WBF

minnapple




msg:840699
 12:37 am on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Whatever anyone says pro or con, I am glad that dominance of google is diminishing with the shift of yahoo towards their "own" search.

They had way too much market share for our good and really for their own good.

When you hear over and over again that you are the greatest, you start to believe it. Then you can fall into this mode that you feel you can do no wrong.

If you fall deep into this mode, reality will sooner or later wack you across the face.

Success can be more dangerous thn failure.

If I was google right now the last thing I would do is pump my staff up with IPO hype [we will all become rich] speaches and rather concentrate on how the lost of market share and the change of the value of their product could affect their long term status in the industry.

M i n n a p p l e

panic




msg:840700
 12:47 am on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Um, no. You are the one "sticking with Ink."

Inktomi is a failed engine? If it was, why would Yahoo! decide to use Inktomi results rather than AV & ATW?

You are the one defending the spammiest search engine.

You can honestly say that Inktomi has nearly as much spam as Google? Have you even bothered looking at spam on AV? No wonder you think AV & ATW are "good resources".

You are the one defending the smallest database

I'd rather search a smaller, QUALITY database rather than an enormous, spam-filled one. *cough*Google*cough*

You are the one defending an engine that takes at least two to three months to include crawled pages in its database.

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe Inktomi editorial checks submitted URL's before they index them? Of course not.

You are defending the engine that as a matter of policy removed all pages from domains that used PFI just because other domains copied their content, yet left all the non-pfi copies.

I am defending the engine that doesn't tolerate multiple content.

Inktomi is a failed engine that can't be taken seriously on its own.

This coming from the same guy who thinks they should incorporate AV & ATW.

Maybe when President Sharpton takes office.

Or maybe when your 2001 SEM tactics get past Inktomi editorial.

They just need to rely least on their weakest, most incomplete property.

Yeah... have Y! rely on the weakest and most incomplete property (ATW). That's just a formula for success, isn't it?

You didn't happen to do consulting for the XFL, did you, steveb?

steveb




msg:840701
 1:03 am on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Sorry, but it is nearly impossible for anyone to seriously make the case that Ink is anything but the spammiest search engine. Try searching outside your niche sometime.

The highest percentage of spam, and the smallest database. Interesting thing to like.

Yahoo hasn't used Ink for over a year even though they could. Ya think they just misplaced it or something?

Obviously they knew all last year that Ink wasn't even remotely useful to them since they didn't even include a *hint* of it with Google results, despite that being the initial plan.

You hijacking this thread for cheerleading can't change the fact that Yahoo has not used the past Ink nor the current Ink. THEIR opinion is what counts first, and they disagree with you. Using Google results has been their choice because they like money, not corporate suicide.

The Ink of two months from now? That could be a great thing. Things can change, and things can change a lot because Yahoo has four properties to work with.

Ink collapsed because it was a poor search engine. Yahoo got it at a fire sale price, and has chosen not to use it for a virtual eternity in search engine terms. Maybe they will roll out a much improved version, but they are in state of disarray now.

panic




msg:840702
 1:36 am on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Try searching outside your niche sometime.

I don't see how I'd search outside of my niche, considering I'm not a part of any particular niche.

The highest percentage of spam, and the smallest database. Interesting thing to like.

I don't know what you search for, but I get nothing but quality results.

Ya think they just misplaced it or something?

Apparently not, considering Y! bought Inktomi.

Obviously they knew all last year that Ink wasn't even remotely useful to them since they didn't even include a *hint* of it with Google results, despite that being the initial plan.

You honestly think Y! would spend $235 million dollars buying Inktomi, only to mix Inktomi results with Google results? Good thinking there, buddy.

You hijacking this thread for cheerleading can't change the fact that Yahoo has not used the past Ink nor the current Ink.

Yahoo HAS used the past Ink, and is currently ROLLING OUT MORE INKTOMI (hence, the title of this thread).

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe Yahoo! hasn't served Inktomi results yet because they might be TESTING?

Using Google results has been their choice because they like money, not corporate suicide.

If you figure they loved Google so much, why'd they buy Inktomi?

Yahoo got it at a fire sale price, and has chosen not to use it for a virtual eternity in search engine terms.

Despite what you might think, switching indexes isn't a bang up job that's as easy as flipping a switch.

jbauder




msg:840703
 7:35 am on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

If you figure they loved Google so much, why'd they buy Inktomi?

Cause it was cheaper than a house in San Fran

Despite what you might think, switching indexes isn't a bang up job that's as easy as flipping a switch.

Sure it is ... just ask google

my take ...

if google had it figured out they wouldn't send every visitor to someone elses directory

and

if yahoo had it figured out they would use one of the engines they already own

tigger




msg:840704
 7:58 am on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

I agree with panic I'm very pleased with the results I've seen on Ink so I'm looking forward to seeing them live on Y

makemetop




msg:840705
 9:23 am on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Inktomi/Yahoo now has some of the toughest editorial checks of any search engine to date. They really are trying to clean out the Aegean stable. But, like everything else, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. INK results look, in the main, fine to me and Google's commercial searches look, in the main, like rubbish. It appears others think the exact opposite - the final arbiters will be surfers when the switch to INK is finally made.

allanp73




msg:840706
 5:14 pm on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

The main problem I see with Inktomi is the conflict of interest. Inktomi tries to set itself up to be a paid for inclusion search engine, but at the same time it needs to compete with Google's larger index. Inktomi spider need to crawl more often and more deeply and forget about the paid inclusion. Does anyone have figures on how much revenue the paid inclusion generates for Inktomi? Is it something that could be dropped in favour of encouraging the use of its search results and selling more overture ppr?

Zeberdee




msg:840707
 5:22 pm on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

As a dumb user, who has only recently found the raw "Inktomi" feed, my opinion is:

Google as it used to be: 8/10
Inktomi as I see it: 7/10
Google as it is now: 5/10

These opinions are formed from searches in my academic field and at home in my hobby areas.

As a consequence I hope Yahoo rolls it out very quickly.

allanp73




msg:840708
 5:27 pm on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Zeberdee,

This is the way I feel as well. I have given up cheering for Google, which betrayed those who supported it, and switched to singing the praises of Inktomi. It would be a good switch for two reasons:
1) Because it is better than the current Google
2) Because it may hurt Google and make them reconsider the way they do business. Finally, they will have some competition.

panic




msg:840709
 5:44 pm on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Cause it was cheaper than a house in San Fran

While that may be true, if Inktomi wasn't a sound investment, Y! wouldn't have bought them.

Sure it is ... just ask google

If you think that some Google engineer can just waltz right into Google, flip a switch, and everything's just dandy, you're dead wrong. Though you probably think otherwise, they actually test it out before it goes live.

if google had it figured out they wouldn't send every visitor to someone elses directory

Uh... ok?

if yahoo had it figured out they would use one of the engines they already own

Y! is ROLLING OUT MORE INKTOMI (which means they're using Inktomi). Y! owns Inktomi. Essentially, they ARE using one of the engines they already own, which would mean you think Y! has it figured out.

Inktomi tries to set itself up to be a paid for inclusion search engine, but at the same time it needs to compete with Google's larger index.

Wrong. Inktomi stands by quality, not quantity. Google, however, is the exact opposite.

Inktomi spider need to crawl more often and more deeply and forget about the paid inclusion.

I'll never understand the logic to having a large database as opposed to a quality database. Bigger is not always better.

As far as forgetting the paid inclusion, you can pretty much strike that idea.

Is it something that could be dropped in favour of encouraging the use of its search results and selling more overture ppr?

Don't count on it.

jbauder




msg:840710
 7:33 pm on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

panic

While that may be true, if Inktomi wasn't a sound investment, Y! wouldn't have bought them.

flawed logic, companies make bad investments every day, though i happen to think ink was a good investment

If you think that some Google engineer can just waltz right into Google, flip a switch, and everything's just dandy, you're dead wrong. Though you probably think otherwise, they actually test it out before it goes live.

it was sarcasm panic ... i think they did flip a switch and look what it got them

Essentially, they ARE using one of the engines they already own, which would mean you think Y! has it figured out.

no ... essentially they are still paying google and using their results, when they actually switch to inktomi they will have figured it out

Wrong. Inktomi stands by quality, not quantity. Google, however, is the exact opposite.

please! don't act like inktomi is the almanac of websites ... they still list "smartpages" that simply redirect to an affiliate site

allanp73




msg:840711
 7:40 pm on Feb 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Panic,

>Wrong. Inktomi stands by quality, not quantity. Google, however, is the exact opposite.

Actually, there is stong case to say that the size of the index and quality are related.
The size of the index allows for the greater representation of terms. Generally, Inktomi spider doesn't crawl deeply enough into websites. The index pages often lack much substance where as deeper pages are where the content gold lies. The problem with Inktomi is that is lcaks the very niche information which makes the difference between a good search engine and a great one. Google is great for this reason, however, with it's new behaviour its greatness is tarnished.
Inktomi could compete easily because over its small index it is better, it just needs to build its quantity.

storemaster




msg:840712
 6:12 pm on Feb 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

OK, sorry I used the wrong search terms in previous sample URLs I provided, this is what I am seeing:

Google Results:

[search.yahoo.com...]
compare it to what you get on Google it self:
[google.com...]

Inktomi Results:

[search.yahoo.com...]

so all you got to do is add this &tmpl=E088 thingy to end of your URLs. Can somebody else confirm they seeing this too?

The results look very close on both (though different order), I think these Inktomi folks caught up with Google .... or something fishy is going on .....

.... storemaster .....

minnapple




msg:840713
 11:36 pm on Feb 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

Since yahoo has put the "magic cookie" on my pc a few weeks ago, or whatever they did, I have been tracking results, today I am starting to see yahoo directory listings pop in the mix.

My directory listing from 4 years ago [outdated] has appeared in the main search for my business my area.

First I noticed the yahoo "Category" lising.
I could have missed it before, but either way it is there now.

M i n n a p p l e

skipfactor




msg:840714
 11:45 pm on Feb 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

When I first received the cookie, it was Pure Ink. A week or so later actual title tags were replaced w/ Yahoo directory titles with seemed to have an impact on the serps.

Now they've stolen my cookie & I'm seeing "Search Technology provided by Google" again.

minnapple




msg:840715
 11:52 pm on Feb 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

I now have three machines that see the new yahoo.

I have even deleted the cache, cookies on one machine, but I cannot see the old results.

So I not sure what this means other than they are rolling it out on some basis.

With MSN and yahoo together, Ink will actually be the dominate database.

M i n n a p p l e

Brett_Tabke




msg:840716
 12:56 am on Feb 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

about 15 off topic msgs were nuked here as one poster was way out of line. There was already the msg in this thread so it was spliced on and left here for petes sake. This is why we don't do public discussions of moderation, because 99 times out of 100, the poster is mistaken (as was in this case).

Thanks for the post storemaster.

This 182 message thread spans 7 pages: < < 182 ( 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 > >
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