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Yahoo Search Engine and Directory Forum

Yahoo Retains Google
until year end ...

 9:35 pm on Apr 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

A good news ...It seems from this CNN article yahoo will use google index until the year end ...a lot of time to learn INK algo :)



jeremy goodrich

 9:48 pm on Apr 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Ya, good news indeed. I wonder just how they'll integrate the Inktomi technology over the next year?

Will be most interesting to see...


 9:52 pm on Apr 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thank you God! :)


 10:01 pm on Apr 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

This was expected. Why buy Inktomi if you aren't going to use it? It will be good that Google will get some competition again. Monopolies are always bad even when it is a good company like Google in the monopoly situation.
I am curious what the "souped-up" search engine will be like.


 10:12 pm on Apr 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yahoo plans to incorporate Inktomi's tools in to its search engine by year's end.

I'm not sure how you read that and come up with

Yahoo retains Google until year end


 10:13 pm on Apr 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

with the power of prayer perhaps?


 10:16 pm on Apr 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

My hope is that Yahoo ditch Google ASAP.


 10:24 pm on Apr 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

I don't think that article mentions anything regarding any timelines...it simply states that Yahoo is unleashing a souped up version of its search engine...which Yahoo thinks will alter the game..

You should have seen some increased activity in your respective logs from an old friend "slurp"...Yahoo was unleashing slurp to increase the depth and breadth of its database...so that it could provide some fresher results than what Google presently does...

We had slurp all over our properties recently and we see this as a good sign for possible fresher results cycles from Yahoo...

My only question is will they integrate a bigger percentage of their directory listings in the results pages? Of course, there is a ton of spammy listings with multiple string keyword domain names that were doing very well before the big change last October...kind of like what you can do over at Looksmart...hideous stuff by our standards..



 11:46 pm on Apr 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebGuerrilla , Maybe i am wrong , but that line says that yahoo will use INK by years end , so until then they have to keep Big G ...

The article also says that the new Search version will combine Google's index with Yahoo's customized services


 12:32 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just noticed yesterday: when I search from Yahoo, I now get a Google cookie. To my knowledge, this is new.


 1:47 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

The article says nothing about Yahoo ever using Ink's search results. Yahoo uses Google and will continue to. Maybe all the crazy Ink speculation will go away for awhile. Yahoo has other plans, not an suicidal desire to use current Ink results for search! That idea has always been silly.


 2:06 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

My thought is that they'll feed in to the search all the properties they've been paid to include and toss the rest in for good measure.

What I've seen with one in particular I watch is nothing like Google, or what Google's had since over 7 months ago. The meat is 95% paid directory & Yahoo shopping listings, with others in there like a tossed salad thrown in on the side for good measure. Only with the site I take care of, they dragged out a worn-out, out-dated copy of what hasn't even been in existence since last July.

They're saying some, but not actually saying anything at all. What they're putting out is some cryptic, undecipherable hybrid. It says they'll be using Ink's technology by the end of the year, not their database. That alone is a foreboding of what could come.

But my guess is that they'd better be quick to start divulging what's constituting algorithmic search and what's paid listings. I'm seeing a mix of the two now, without disclosure. Not on all - some still look like Google. Not all, which is what's arousing suspicion.

[edited by: Marcia at 2:22 am (utc) on April 8, 2003]


 2:21 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

yahoo will use INK by years end

If YAHOO! started using Ink tomorrow that would be by years' end.


 2:31 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

skibum, remember back when LookSmart, prior to the "upgrade" they gave everyone last Spring, had that program for the big sites with a mimimum of $3K a month, where they fed multiple pages in from those sites, and the smaller folks had their single pages? Remember what that looked like at MSN?

Ink technology can do that, and that's exactly where this can go. If we think the Directory listings will stay $299 a year and never go PPC just like LS did, we're not looking at recent history hard enough.

I just can't see Google remaining involved, at least not on a publicly visible level, with the kind of corrupted, undisclosed mixture potentially being offered as quality search that we're liable to be seeing at Yahoo in the future.


 5:29 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Remember what that looked like at MSN?

That's kinda what it looks like today, no? Big advertisers throw in thousands of pages while the small biz folks are limited to either 1 or sometimes a few more [looksmart.com].

MSN doesn't seem to cluster (is that the right word?) LookSmart results so if the name of your site happens to be a keyword phase you can take the top 5-10 spots for that particular keyword:) which makes the search results look stupid.

In any case, I'd expect YAHOO! to put as many paid results as possible on their SERPs as long as they can find some way to justify it as a "positive user experience".


 6:55 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

They'll always struggle to make a page full of ads and paid for stuff a "positive user experience".... unless of course you somehow call the dogs dinner at MSN positive.

Anyhow, just a thought... all this money Yahoo are raising for an acquisition... in which people are speculating Overture, E-Spotting, etc. Imagine what the acquisition of Google would do to the market. Hmmm. In my opinion the odds are not that long.


 7:47 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

They'd need more money than that. Yahoo could offer shares too I guess. What a sad way for Google to go :(


 8:32 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>What a sad way for Google to go

I'd "sit shiva" (official ritual mourning) and be done with it all. With the dirty pool we're surrounded with wherever we look, Google is the last bastion, the last shred of quality, integrity and common human decency that's left.

>>all this money Yahoo are raising for an acquisition...

To surround Google maybe, like a battlefield maneuver, by buying up Overture? If we think about it, Yahoo can pull a LookSmart deal, turn the directory into PPC like LS did. Put that first {preceded by Overture maybe), followed by their hybrid, FTC-baiting backfill with PFI. All including feeds for the corporate crowd, of course.

If Yahoo were to take that spare pocket change they've got now and purchase Overture, they'd have All the Web and Alta Vista. Keep Overture there, follow by their Directory - with the PPC - and the PFI with Alta and FAST as it's been. All theirs, all pay or die.

At that point, what's left? Lycos (using FAST - theirs), MSN (using Overture & Ink - theirs) Jeeves, now selling off part. Then there's AOL, having troubles of their own, with Yahoo now in the SBC/ISP business offering far superior service.

That would leave Google, with AOL and whichever partners still value quality search. But the major portals would be pretty well sewed up, kind of surrounding them.

Far-fetched and fanciful mental meanderings maybe, but a nightmare situation to imagine. More fodder for the DOJ in the making; Yahoo could make Redmond look like Vacation Bible School.


 9:19 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

> Yahoo plans to incorporate Inktomi's tools in to its search engine by year's end.

heise.de wrote something similar yesterday at about the same time:

Ende des Jahres soll die Inktomi-Technik dann die von Google ersetzen.


The quote means that Inktomi will replace Google by the end of the year. I've asked the author for a source but didn't get a reply (yet). I hope it wasn't CNN...


 1:50 pm on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>Yahoo plans to incorporate Inktomi's tools in to its search engine by year's end.

The timeline for this is ambiguous, but the "by" probably means well before the end of the year. If I were Yahoo I would want it tested and in place long before the '03 Fall/Christmas shopping season. IMO, I would expect a major rollout this summer.

>>Google is the last bastion, the last shred of quality, integrity and common human decency that's left.

Oh, please! I'm not buying into that one bit.


 2:26 pm on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>> With the dirty pool we're surrounded with wherever we look, Google is the last bastion, the last shred of quality, integrity and common human decency that's left. <<

I'm buying into it, because everything is relative out there. Compare Google with MSN, for example, on all those criteria.

No contest. Ditto their puppet, Looksmart. Ditto Overture. Etc. Etc.

Not just corporate culture (which is critical because it drives everything else) but what you see in the SERPS... returns based on relevancy and not cash.

Back to Yahoo though... I still do not see why everyone seems to think Overture is the likely target. The technology itself isn't worth a lot to be honest (and is easy to replicate). Is the goodwill? Doubt it, especially after GatorGate.

Google on the other hand... what a prize for them. That would make them #1 in a single stroke if they could pull it off.

I know - it doesn't bear thinking about - but the logic is there.


 8:22 pm on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hypothetically, can Yahoo buy Google and get away with it? It would be like a M$-Apple merger. Would the DOJ permit it? Together they have the dominant market share, almost the entire pie.


 8:34 pm on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>Compare Google with MSN..

OK, I will. I get more sales from my MSN traffic (around 20% of uniques) than Google's (around 50% of uniques- including Google results appearing elesewhere). Is that because MSN is so much worse? For the surfer that bought something - I doubt it!


 8:43 pm on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

You must be having me on.... or you're missing the point.

I was talking about "dirty pools", not personal sales figures. Microsoft would be the first in the gutter, if only they could edge their way past Looksmart to get there.


 9:15 pm on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

I imagine they are going to keep Google's results for a long time. Inktomi can be used to power the other items that are displayed on the search results and internal search services.

The Yahoo/Google contract is non-exclusive so they can mix and match whatever they want.

Inktomi's paid inclusion can provide results for commercial/shopping type searches, while Google fills the rest.

Yahoo makes paid inclusion income off all the money terms while still keeping information seeking surfers happy with what Google has to offer.

For example, if you search for computer software you get results that are largely compiled of shopping sites who paid to play along with Google backfill.

Think of it as how they mix in their categories section with Google's results. Under some commercial searches, you don't have a direct mirror of Google's results. Big sites that are listed in the directory appear to have a benefit. The paid inclusion will just take this to another level.

All speculation but I bet that's what is going to happen.


 11:26 pm on Apr 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

My speculation, for what it is (or isn't) worth:

1. Yahoo will use the Inktomi engine to crawl every listed site from the directory, and use that to provide a "directory matches / web sites" SERP again.

2. Inktomi results will drive the secondary results (web pages) as well.

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